Complaints about the Prokhorovka Map

[Chief_Mouser]

33 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

Some of the world's biggest artillery barrages took place in that area before the battle began.  Are there any traces of damage to the landscape?

 

No, for an area that had already been fought over at least twice before Prokhorovka it is in a remarkably pristine condition. The inhabitants must have received a few renovation grants from the local council.

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks.  I had a feeling it might some sort of Marioland version.  I’m curious to see if the airfields and villages of the Bodenplatte map will be winning some tidy-town awards too.  

[kestrel79]

I'm gonna hold off on judgement until it's officially released. Everything from these devs is a WiP and is always improving. This sim has come a long way since it's beginning. I'm sure TC will be no different once it's been out for a few years and if it's popular.

 

My tank combat experience from a similar map is the Kursk map in Warthunder which looks and runs great...it's a large map for Warthunder standards too. How much larger is the TC map? 20-30 times? Maybe even bigger? I'll have to look it up to compare.

[Jason_Williams]

Complaints noted. The map has exactly what we have promised. The terrain mesh is at a much higher resolution and the buildings have a new more detailed damage model. Claiming we have said anything else is not accurate. We have shown many screenshots of the map in Dev. Diaries and have not hidden anything from you. The terrain in real life is pretty flat so even with added mesh it is still not super bumpy. Being disappointed with the textures or something else is your opinion, but don't insinuate that we are liars.

 

Performance issues are noted and the chalk appearing or disappearing will be looked at and is a combination of factors including hardware, settings and technology. A tank focused map is something new for us. We're learning as we go as well. Also remember, you can use the tanks on other maps as well, not just this one.

The tanks are gorgeous as well as the crew models. Quite the feat considering we had nothing just a few months ago. We will always look positively at what we have accomplished in a short time. 

 

Jason

[Chief_Mouser]

'Performance issues are noted and the chalk appearing or disappearing will be looked at...a tank focused map is something new for us. We're learning as we go as well.'

 

Sorry Jason, closing the thread really is not good enough. It's not just the chalk appearing/disappearing, but the forests flicker in and out as do the landscape contours. It is (apparently) not supposed to be just a tank map...

 

'A good map for the joint tank and air battles (100 x 100 km in case of Prokhorovka) would be not enough for a full-blown, 'air campaign' map that should be 200 x 250 km minimum. Therefore, Prokhorovka map is a fine balance of several things. It allows making interesting tank campaigns, having interesting joint tank and aircraft multiplayer, keeping the performance impact 30% or less at reasonable graphics settings, and having improved visual quality at the ground level required for the ground battles.'

 

...but has been touted as a combined air/tank map. Whatever it's use as a tank map, as an aircraft map it really does need a LOT more work.

And just in case that you think I'm a naysayer against everything...

 

There are a lot of things that need fixing before it can be a good map for aircraft. Sticking your head in the sand won't help. Please take constructive criticism and observations on board; we all want the best that is possible.

 

Cheers.

 

[CanadaOne]

Patience, Grasshopper. 

 

It's not like any of BOX is sold "as is". This whole endeavor is dynamic to say the least. DDs and updates and improvements to existing aspects the game; it really is a WIP.

 

As I mentioned before, the Stalingrad map got an excellent update and it looks great. No reason to think the Proky map won't see improvements.

[Jason_Williams]

1 hour ago, 216th_Cat said:

'Performance issues are noted and the chalk appearing or disappearing will be looked at...a tank focused map is something new for us. We're learning as we go as well.'

 

Sorry Jason, closing the thread really is not good enough. It's not just the chalk appearing/disappearing, but the forests flicker in and out as do the landscape contours. It is (apparently) not supposed to be just a tank map...

 

'A good map for the joint tank and air battles (100 x 100 km in case of Prokhorovka) would be not enough for a full-blown, 'air campaign' map that should be 200 x 250 km minimum. Therefore, Prokhorovka map is a fine balance of several things. It allows making interesting tank campaigns, having interesting joint tank and aircraft multiplayer, keeping the performance impact 30% or less at reasonable graphics settings, and having improved visual quality at the ground level required for the ground battles.'

 

...but has been touted as a combined air/tank map. Whatever it's use as a tank map, as an aircraft map it really does need a LOT more work.

And just in case that you think I'm a naysayer against everything...

 

There are a lot of things that need fixing before it can be a good map for aircraft. Sticking your head in the sand won't help. Please take constructive criticism and observations on board; we all want the best that is possible.

 

Cheers.

 

 

I froze the thread so I could respond and read all comments. I'm consolidating all the complaints in one place. 

 

As far as it being a map you can fly over, it wasn't designed primarily for that so there are some differences in technologies and detail. It's a tank map that you can fly over, just like the other maps are maps for airplanes that you can drive a tank on. Again, we've done what we have promised on the technology front. If you don't like it fine, but badgering us and putting words in our mouth won't be tolerated. 

 

Jason

[=FEW=Hauggy]

On 4/5/2019 at 12:31 AM, Jason_Williams said:

Again, we've done what we have promised on the technology front.

And a great job has been done by the dev team no doubt.

But couldn't the map have been improved if someone took some time to fly over it prior to release?

I hope you'll find a way to properly test things out because I can tell you that this map doesn't currently make me want to buy "tank crew".

Have a great day!

[BraveSirRobin]

It's early access.  You guys are doing a great job of giving them reasons to stop allowing us to have early access.

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

It's early access.  You guys are doing a great job of giving them reasons to stop allowing us to have early access.

 

I have no opinion on the new map however the early access is no free stuff. Saying that "allowing us" is just out of the place - we paid for it.

[BraveSirRobin]

35 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

I have no opinion on the new map however the early access is no free stuff. Saying that "allowing us" is just out of the place - we paid for it.

 

You paid for the game.  You actually got a discount for early access.  But if people keep crying about unfinished features like it's a released and completed game, then we're not going to get early access any more. 

 

If you want a completed product, don't get early access.

[Ehret]

4 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

You paid for the game.  You actually got a discount for early access.  But if people keep crying about unfinished features like it's a released and completed game, then we're not going to get early access any more. 

 

If you want a completed product, don't get early access.

 

Discount yes but the company gets money earlier as well. If we won't get an early access the company will not get early money. Then we can spend it somewhere else.

 

And no... not all is "crying" is about unfinished features; even if it was then so what? Things are supposed to change before full release, right? Sitting mute ensures they won't.

[Nocke]

I think it is a map "for the future". I had a gtx980 with 4gb until that pc died recently, and the map was almost unflyable for me. Parts of the landscapes and forests jumped in and out, to fly low over the villages gave terrible stuttering. Got a 2080 with 8gb now - and all is perfect. It seems one needs enough memory to load all the details of the landscape. May seem hard now - but in a couple of years everybody will have the necessary hardware.

[SCG_motoadve]

I like the way the map looks for sure, its more detailed , has better textures, looks more real, but I do get the slow downs over the towns, and the flickering forest, even with a 2080Ti and OC processor @5.0.

 

Its early release so not complaining, and actually using it a lot for flying in quick missions, its my favorite map.

Now if its still flickering and slowing down after official release that would not be acceptable.

[BraveSirRobin]

7 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

And no... not all is "crying" is about unfinished features; even if it was then so what? Things are supposed to change before full release, right? Sitting mute ensures they won't.

 

Yes, the complaining is about an unfinished product.  And comments like “do you guys bother to test this stuff?” is absolutely out of line.

[Ehret]

Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

Yes, the complaining is about an unfinished product.  And comments like “do you guys bother to test this stuff?” is absolutely out of line.

 

We will see - it's not like earlier battles got everything sorted after official releases. Also, there are indications that some parts of current unfinished products are going to stay unchanged for foreseeable future.

[BraveSirRobin]

11 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

We will see - it's not like earlier battles got everything sorted after official releases. Also, there are indications that some parts of current unfinished products are going to stay unchanged for foreseeable future.

 

It’s not like any flight sim has ever got everything sorted out after the official release.  If that’s your standard for an acceptable product, then you should probably stop buying flight sims.  

 

But in this case the map is in early access.  So comments about the dev not bothering to test it are definitely out of line.

Edited April 12, 2019 by BraveSirRobin

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

Some of us have forgotten that we are the testers.

 

That's the whole idea behind early access....the publisher gives a discount to interested players who also get

 

Early access for their enjoyment

 

The ability to develop expert product knowledge and player skills ahead of general release

 

The opportunity to guide and influence product refinmemt ahead of general release by providing constructive feedback to the publisher.

 

Fly and tank on.

[SCG_Neun]

Ehret is right on target with his comments and I concur right down the line.  Of course it's an unfinished product and we should try and be as understanding as possible.  I think it's a sign of the times we live in now.  When you go into a store and spend money the sales person  doesn't even thank you anymore.  It's like they did us a favor.  That's terrible customer relationship management.  I don't owe them anything anymore.  I'm just waiting for my product to be released,  and customer comments are a part of life.  Respectful, yes, but not walking on eggshells.

Edited April 12, 2019 by SCG_Neun

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, SCG_Neun said:

When you go into a store and spend money the sales person  doesn't even thank you anymore. 

 

I get thanked all the time.  Maybe the problem is on your side of the cash register.

[SCG_Neun]

Tell me something, do you have pom poms with your cheerleading outfit?

[BraveSirRobin]

25 minutes ago, SCG_Neun said:

Tell me something, do you have pom poms with your cheerleading outfit?

 

Yeah, it’s definitely a mystery why you are not appreciated as a customer.

[Guest deleted@83466]

30 minutes ago, SCG_Neun said:

Tell me something, do you have pom poms with your cheerleading outfit?

 

People tend to rally around the developers because they support and generally like what the developers are doing and what they're trying to accomplish.  Some of the complaints in this thread basically come across as "hey developer, you suck, and so does your map".  It comes across as a spoiled, entitled little brat going on a rant.  If you've found something wrong, the way to go about it is to make a professionally phrased, impartial bug report.  On matters of opinion regarding their work, you might be surprised about the level of receptivity you get if you show a little sympathy, a little courtesy, and some taste to the developers.  It's been like that since the invention of money and paid services back in 4000 BC.

[SCG_Neun]

Well I suppose there are two sides to this.  Points well taken.

[Panzerlang]

If humans didn't 'whine', bitch, moan, complain...call it what you want...we'd still be living in caves and wheels would be square.

Constructive criticism…"Hmm, I guess I should think about making that better."

Rude complaining..."Damn, I better get that sorted proper quick!" *

 

* "That's it, I'm shutting up shop, everyone loses."

[Chief_Mouser]

What really got to me was that the thread was locked, so I'm glad to see it re-opened. Thanks Jason.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

IMHO if it's true that in that terrain were fought battles before , it represents to  idyllic place . War is just somke and broken stuff which is not presented. But this is job for  mission designers not default qmb setup , should it be default ? This map is now out of context , no missions no campaign etc. It would be nice if mission designers could have tool to deform terrain , place broken tress etc.

[EAF19_Marsh]

I was thinking to buy primarily for the map and then as a ongoing investment. For mostly-fliers, is it worth it?

[40plus]

12 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

I was thinking to buy primarily for the map and then as a ongoing investment. For mostly-fliers, is it worth it?

 

I would say so. It is quite unique compared to the other maps that are available and very fun to fly over. The gullies and other terrain details make it a blast for low altitude flight.

 

Flying over the tank area can slow your rig down though so be warned. . . . .I still do it but it can stutter. especially in VR.

[SCG_Slater]

Is it all implemented? I don’t think they fully updated the map yet because there are missing a lot of destructible objects.