Can somebody please bring me up to speed on the clouds issue...

[Panzerlang]

I have no idea if it's fixable with settings in the Nvidia CP but currently the distortion of planes against clouds in the background is dire on a monitor, never mind in VR where it is an absolute game trashing experience. I can't recall the last time I read up on the issue but it was some time ago and I didn't expect to see it still.

TIA.

[LukeFF]

No, nothing new. The issue is what it is and not easily fixable.

[Panzerlang]

Wow! The only flight sim of any type that suffers it. I'm going to assume it's a Digital Nature Engine cockup. This and the inability to handle normal amounts of AI. Is there a particular reason why this engine hasn't been binned off?

[JonRedcorn]

4 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Wow! The only flight sim of any type that suffers it. I'm going to assume it's a Digital Nature Engine cockup. This and the inability to handle normal amounts of AI. Is there a particular reason why this engine hasn't been binned off?

Because they'd have to make/use and entirely new one? That stuff isn't free.

[Panzerlang]

I just did a google search on it and found one of the dev's comments on it. Not fixable apparently, the cloud tech is fubar but not easily replaced. But then somebody else said it wasn't there before Kuban?

How about an option for SP'ers to turn clouds off (is that even possible?)? Not ideal of course but in VR it really is a game breaker. I've been playing the careers and I've found myself praying that the next mission has few to zero clouds. If it does have them I try to fly lower than my virtual comrades so I see planes instead of flickering black mush. Seriously, this isn't acceptable in $70 products.

[RedKestrel]

5 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Wow! The only flight sim of any type that suffers it. I'm going to assume it's a Digital Nature Engine cockup. This and the inability to handle normal amounts of AI. Is there a particular reason why this engine hasn't been binned off?

There is no current-gen combat flight sim without AI issues. The older ones used simplified flight models for AI which allowed them to have more AI on-screen at any given time (it also turned enemy planes into UFOs that people CONSTANTLY bitched about). They also had simpler flight models in general which also impacts performance.

If you find an optimized combat flight sim with killer AI, perfect flight models, VR support and awesome graphics that runs on middle of the road hardware you be sure to let us know. For the amount of whining backseat game-devs do on this forum you'd think there would be more than 3 combat flight sims under active development worldwide. Turns out its harder than it looks!

Honestly the things people find to be 'game trashing' experiences blows my mind. People need to get outside more and realize a graphical bug isn't the end of the world.

 

[Feathered_IV]

There are a couple of mods that tackle the cloud problem.  If you have a look in the Mod section you should be able to find them.  

[ShamrockOneFive]

39 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Wow! The only flight sim of any type that suffers it. I'm going to assume it's a Digital Nature Engine cockup. This and the inability to handle normal amounts of AI. Is there a particular reason why this engine hasn't been binned off?

 

War Thunder has similar compositing issues with their cloud tech.

 

Creating a game engine from scratch takes years.

 

28 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

I just did a google search on it and found one of the dev's comments on it. Not fixable apparently, the cloud tech is fubar but not easily replaced. But then somebody else said it wasn't there before Kuban?

How about an option for SP'ers to turn clouds off (is that even possible?)? Not ideal of course but in VR it really is a game breaker. I've been playing the careers and I've found myself praying that the next mission has few to zero clouds. If it does have them I try to fly lower than my virtual comrades so I see planes instead of flickering black mush. Seriously, this isn't acceptable in $70 products.

 

Set your clouds on high. It will seriously lessen the effect though it is still there I don't find it all that problematic at that level aside from being a bit ugly. At lower levels it can hinder situational awareness in my experience.

Edited March 26, 2019 by ShamrockOneFive

[Panzerlang]

Just now, Feathered_IV said:

There are a couple of mods that tackle the cloud problem.  If you have a look in the Mod section you should be able to find them.  

Just been reading two long threads on the Migoto mod. While they thoroughly scared me off trying it (lol) I did take note of the fact that there's a guy making not a penny from his work but he's constantly on it, fixing its bugs and etc etc. That's me too really, free or charged for, I'd be embarrassed...no, ashamed, to display an attitude of "There it is, it is what it is, like it or lump it". But to express that on something costing proper dollar?! Just wow!

That's just my personal opinion and there are clearly some who believe the current situation is a perfectly acceptable one. I guess that's a matter of subjective opinion...not. I'd argue it's a pretty damn objective one myself, for VR players this is a HUGE issue.

Be professional, stop offering pathetic excuses and fix this. You're not giving away a free game for android phones here.

5 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

War Thunder has similar compositing issues with their cloud tech.

 

Creating a game engine from scratch takes years.

 

 

Set your clouds on high. It will seriously lessen the effect though it is still there I don't find it all that problematic at that level aside from being a bit ugly. At lower levels it can hinder situational awareness in my experience.

 

I will give that a try. I currently have clouds on high but it's in conjunction with Balanced preset, which I vaguely recall messes with the cloud setting.

[ShamrockOneFive]

2 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

 

I will give that a try. I currently have clouds on high but it's in conjunction with Balanced preset, which I vaguely recall messes with the cloud setting.

 

That may be the case. I haven't tested that combination except to say that on my system the issue is present but it doesn't cause the aircraft to effectively disappear.

[Panzerlang]

29 minutes ago, RedKestrel said:

There is no current-gen combat flight sim without AI issues. The older ones used simplified flight models for AI which allowed them to have more AI on-screen at any given time (it also turned enemy planes into UFOs that people CONSTANTLY bitched about). They also had simpler flight models in general which also impacts performance.

If you find an optimized combat flight sim with killer AI, perfect flight models, VR support and awesome graphics that runs on middle of the road hardware you be sure to let us know. For the amount of whining backseat game-devs do on this forum you'd think there would be more than 3 combat flight sims under active development worldwide. Turns out its harder than it looks!

Honestly the things people find to be 'game trashing' experiences blows my mind. People need to get outside more and realize a graphical bug isn't the end of the world.

 

Calm down, different people have different expectations, subjective preferences and a 1001 etc's. I, personally, consider a bug of this magnitude in a game costing what this one does to be a significant issue. Imagine a $70 fps game, where figures back-dropped by trees, became black stuttering mush. I suspect there would be an uproar.

You don't say "lump it", you bust whatever needs to be busted to fix it. Otherwise you don't charge big dollar for it. That's called "Professional Software Development".

 

3 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

That may be the case. I haven't tested that combination except to say that on my system the issue is present but it doesn't cause the aircraft to effectively disappear.

 Are you using VR?

[Voidhunger]

16 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Calm down, different people have different expectations, subjective preferences and a 1001 etc's. I, personally, consider a bug of this magnitude in a game costing what this one does to be a significant issue. Imagine a $70 fps game, where figures back-dropped by trees, became black stuttering mush. I suspect there would be an uproar.

You don't say "lump it", you bust whatever needs to be busted to fix it. Otherwise you don't charge big dollar for it. That's called "Professional Software Development".

 

 Are you using VR?

Its not a bug.

[CIA_Yankee_]

13 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Calm down, different people have different expectations, subjective preferences and a 1001 etc's. I, personally, consider a bug of this magnitude in a game costing what this one does to be a significant issue. Imagine a $70 fps game, where figures back-dropped by trees, became black stuttering mush. I suspect there would be an uproar.

You don't say "lump it", you bust whatever needs to be busted to fix it. Otherwise you don't charge big dollar for it. That's called "Professional Software Development".

 

 Are you using VR?

 

Except in your previous post you just said that it wasn't subjective. 

 

Sadly, this isn't the 90s anymore. Simulators are a very niche market these days, and devs have very limited resources, and so have to make difficult choices when it comes to prioritizing their work. RoI is a very real concept.

 

And if you think the devs aren't "busting" their arses to deliver a quality product, you are sadly misinformed.

[Panzerlang]

7 minutes ago, Voidhunger said:

Its not a bug.

What is it then? A feature?

 

5 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

 

Except in your previous post you just said that it wasn't subjective. 

 

Sadly, this isn't the 90s anymore. Simulators are a very niche market these days, and devs have very limited resources, and so have to make difficult choices when it comes to prioritizing their work. RoI is a very real concept.

 

And if you think the devs aren't "busting" their arses to deliver a quality product, you are sadly misinformed.

So inform me...as I understand it the maps are being made by a sub-contracted dev team. Ditto the planes. So what is being made anymore by an actual 777/1C team? I genuinely don't know but it would be nice to think there is an actual 'native' team of devs, and if there is why aren't they fixing this significant bug? I say "significant" because this game is about airplanes and a considerable part of their natural environment consists of clouds.

[Feathered_IV]

I think the core team are working on Bodenplatte aircraft and the map, along with FM GUI and general graphic stuff. 

The AI is being handled by a former merry-go-round repair man and the radio calls are scripted by dedicated team of Tourette’s sufferers.  :P

[ADorante]

1 hour ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Just been reading two long threads on the Migoto mod. While they thoroughly scared me off trying it (lol) I did take note of the fact that there's a guy making not a penny from his work but he's constantly on it, fixing its bugs and etc etc. That's me too really, free or charged for, I'd be embarrassed...no, ashamed, to display an attitude of "There it is, it is what it is, like it or lump it". But to express that on something costing proper dollar?! Just wow!

 

I found a few things problematic in your stated opinion quoted above. I want to put forward my thoughts on some points.

 

- The modder may code for free on his mod. And even if he doesn't get any monetary compensation from it, he does it because there must be something that he gets from it. Maybe emotional satisfaction. Maybe the admiration of the mod users. At least a push for his self-esteem. Something good for him. But that's only an assumption based on previous cases.

 

- The modder seems to have spare time and some kind of income available to him.

 

- The sim developers in the core team are full time employees, who get an income by developing sims. We don't know how much time they are investing in this sim, we don't know their financial situation. Who wants to guess what they are doing in their spare time?

 

- We don't have reliable information on the personal and professional conditions of both parties.

 

- Only very sad persons feel joy by doing sub-standard work.

 

Therefore:

a) It's not nice to say that the developers should feel ashamed for their product. (Yes, that's the meaning of your words.)

b) It's not nice to assume that the developers feel good about leaving this issue as is and have no reason for this behaviour. (IMHO and IIRC the developers have expressively stated how unsatisfied they are with certain bugs and issues.)

c) Attacking people instead of constructive criticism brings first and foremost resentment. I don't envy developers who need to interact with their community when all they see is negativism.

[Panzerlang]

1 minute ago, ADorante said:

 

I found a few things problematic in your stated opinion quoted above. I want to put forward my thoughts on some points.

 

- The modder may code for free on his mod. And even if he doesn't get any monetary compensation from it, he does it because there must be something that he gets from it. Maybe emotional satisfaction. Maybe the admiration of the mod users. At least a push for his self-esteem. Something good for him. But that's only an assumption based on previous cases.

 

- The modder seems to have spare time and some kind of income available to him.

 

- The sim developers in the core team are full time employees, who get an income by developing sims. We don't know how much time they are investing in this sim, we don't know their financial situation. Who wants to guess what they are doing in their spare time?

 

- We don't have reliable information on the personal and professional conditions of both parties.

 

- Only very sad persons feel joy by doing sub-standard work.

 

Therefore:

a) It's not nice to say that the developers should feel ashamed for their product. (Yes, that's the meaning of your words.)

b) It's not nice to assume that the developers feel good about leaving this issue as is and have no reason for this behaviour. (IMHO and IIRC the developers have expressively stated how unsatisfied they are with certain bugs and issues.)

c) Attacking people instead of constructive criticism brings first and foremost resentment. I don't envy developers who need to interact with their community when all they see is negativism.

Meanwhile, the "technical limitations" claim turns out to be so much rubbish. I've just installed this mod and it's fixed it, planes no longer turn to mush and my own plane parts don't have horrendous jaggies when clouds are behind them.
 

You really do have to wonder just WTH is going on when the game's own devs can't provide the same fix provided by a player. Or even implement it into the game after being shown how it works so that "mods on" isn't required for it and it can then be used in MP too. Could it be it's because 1C/777 no longer has any actual native devs in the company, everything is being outsourced to sub-contractors? A bewildering situation.

Thank you Coconut, for this stellar fix. Cloud samples, who would have thought it could be something so simple.

[Jason_Williams]

No it's not bewildering and don't be an asshole. Increasing cloud samples causes slowdowns we don't like. We have to balance performance with visuals. And WE provide a mods mode so users can experiment when they disagree with our decision. How kind of us. I just prefer we replace the entire technology, but I don't have the resources at the moment. Being a new user and attacking us like you are does not want to make us do anything for you or answer your questions. Be constructive or just leave.

 

Jason