Do you fly aerobatics?

[HenFre]

Hello all

 

I have been learning how to do different aerobatic maneuvers in the Bf 109 E-7 and I enjoy it a lot. It is teaching me so much about how the plane reacts at given speeds and attitudes, but also shows me where the limitations for the aircraft are. To do the maneuvers perfect every time takes a lot of practice, but practicing on your own can be quite boring. So therefor I have a few questions: Is there anyone else out there bitten by the aerobatic bug? Has anyone set up a server dedicated to aerobatics? Are there any squadrons which train aerobatics?

 

Everybody in to aerobatics please respond 

 

Best regards

 

Henrik

[Bullets]

Used to fly aeros all the time back in ROF with Jasta 5 however from what I have seen it's not such a big thing here  . There is a race / aero / practice server, however every time I have been on to race or do aeros its been empty  .  Probably a good idea to join any Teamspeak or Discord server and get in  with a group of people, doubt anyone would say no to practicing aeros  

[Leon_Portier]

Yes, I like to do it.

Also, look at DED Aerobatics server, its great!

[ITAF_Rani]

I m waiting the P51 to organize aerobatic with my team mate...

[Rjel]

I do. The Mc.202 is my favorite aerobatic plane. The early Fw-190s are great too. But I've also played around trying to do stunts in a lightly loaded Ju52. Finally got it to loop. One time. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by Rjel
It's too. Too. Not to. Not two. Too.

[40plus]

Heck yes I do!!! Low and fast in a 109, banking and yanking to follow a road or river or gully at 5-10m, pull to vertical, stall, recover, decend and skim the ground just as I recover . . . . Squeal like a little girl. Hell of a good time. Honestly, about 30% of my logged hours is doing just that.

[Leon_Portier]

Yak-1 s69, red prototype skin. Hands down best aerobatics plane, only dwarfed by the red I-16.

[Blackhawk_FR]

In general american aircraft are very nice for stall-turn (= hammerhead). 

 

Yaks are very good for aerobatics in general. By the way, doing snap rolls with them is very close to real ones.

 

Fw190s (but also every aircraft with fast roll rate) are an extreme pleasure for hesitation rolls. 

Edited March 26, 2019 by F/JG300_Faucon

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

I do as well. Usually in the 110 E. I don't usually do aerobatics just for fun though. I'm usually doing them while circling the airfield while waiting for my squad mates to get their engines lit and take off. Once they are up, it's back to business.

[blitze]

I like to do aerobatics.  Loops, rolls, hammerheads, wingovers, tail slides etc.

 

Been quite handy for combat whereby I am not afraid to go inverted with a wide roll to slow down and keep track of a bandit as they overshoot me.  Sometimes the VVS guys will show off and prop hang when you are fighting them.

 

Also handy is Nap of the Earth flying - works great in Kuban where there is terrain elevation.  Can loose a flight of pursuers flying hard and low through them hills and some of them plow into the terrain too.  Rookies ?

 

Wide FOV VR helps considerably in maneuvers too.

[Guest deleted@50488]

I have to start visiting the "Aerobatics Server" more often...

 

It's indeed great in IL2, in good part due to the excellent flight dynamics.

 

Good Idea!

[Elem]

54 minutes ago, blitze said:

Also handy is Nap of the Earth flying - works great in Kuban where there is terrain elevation.  Can loose a flight of pursuers flying hard and low through them hills and some of them plow into the terrain too

Yep! That's my favourite manoeuvre too. Flat out weaving through the valleys pursued by 2-3 foe! Even better if you've got a few rounds into them previously as you can finish them off this way when you're Winchester and get the kill credit!  

[HenFre]

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 6:55 PM, Leon_Portier said:

Yes, I like to do it.

Also, look at DED Aerobatics server, its great!

 

I have had a look at this server and there never seems to be anyone in it  Are there special hours where people use this server? Only US?

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 7:51 PM, Rjel said:

But I've also played around trying to do stunts in a lightly loaded Ju52. Finally got it to loop. One time.

 

I would like to see that. Please make a video of it 

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 7:55 PM, pfrances said:

Heck yes I do!!! Low and fast in a 109, banking and yanking to follow a road or river or gully at 5-10m, pull to vertical, stall, recover, decend and skim the ground just as I recover

 

Me too  I would love to try this using VR some time.

 

On ‎3‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:00 PM, F/JG300_Faucon said:

By the way, doing snap rolls with them is very close to real ones.

 

I am trying to make a tutorial on snap rolls in the Bf 109 E-7 and it is proving to be the hardest maneuver yet I have had to master. Do you have any tips on how to perform this maneuver? I start by pulling back hard and fast on the stick, then deflect left rudder fully, then when at 270 degree roll I move the stick forward and kick the opposite rudder. Often the plane ends in a spin 

 

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 8:49 AM, blitze said:

Wide FOV VR helps considerably in maneuvers too.

 

What VR headset do you have?

Edited March 29, 2019 by HenFre
Spelling

[Leon_Portier]

45 minutes ago, HenFre said:

I have had a look at this server and there never seems to be anyone in it  Are there special hours where people use this server? Only US?

I think people get WWII flight sims more for the shooting part, so non combat stuff will usually be not very popular.

Which is a shame since my most fondd memorys are made that way-

PM me and we might find some time to fly on the server together.

Edit: I have so many vids like that made, I could make a playlist.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Leon_Portier

[blitze]

51 minutes ago, HenFre said:

What VR headset do you have?

 

I have the Pimax 8K

FOV is at Normal which is 150 degrees but down the track I would like to have the capability to fly at Wide which is 170 Degrees.  It is soo nice but it does drop frame rates so it is either drop frame rates, drop the resolution or wait until I do an awesome upgrade of my hardware and revel in Il2 glory ?

[HenFre]

13 hours ago, Leon_Portier said:

PM me and we might find some time to fly on the server together.

 

I will do that Leon  Looking forward to it Loved the Ju video by the way 

 

13 hours ago, blitze said:

FOV is at Normal which is 150 degrees but down the track I would like to have the capability to fly at Wide which is 170 Degrees.

 

That sounds like an amazing VR setup  How good is the resolution? Can you see the pixels? Screendoor effect?

Edited March 30, 2019 by HenFre
New content

[Avyx]

@blitze, how do you like the Pimax 8k?

Would you recommend it? 

Thank you 

[blitze]

9 minutes ago, HenFre said:

 

I will do that Leon  Looking forward to it Loved the Ju video by the way 

 

 

That sounds like an amazing VR setup  How good is the resolution? Can you see the pixels? Screendoor effect?

I can't really compare to other systems but even at 4k per eye - one can see screendoor and pixels.  Is it where screendoor is larger than pixels? No.  Quite the opposite.  Detail when dialed in is quite good.  Think of it similar to playing on 4k 46Inch TV, it is big picture but at 1 meter away - you notice the pixels but it is still a lovely big picture.

 

Given the magnification of the screens and distance to lens - I think to be honest - 16K per eye will be needed.  8K per eye will be barely noticeable and 4K is like looking through a fine flyscreen door mesh.  With 16K per eye one would need Eye Tracking anf Foreated Rendering to make it manageable for GPU's that can push it.  10 bit HDR panels would be nice too.?

8 minutes ago, Avyx said:

@blitze, how do you like the Pimax 8k?

Would you recommend it? 

Thank you 

Hei Avyx.

 

I do like my Pimax.  Would I recommend it??? Hmmmm

 

Even with the issues Pimax have had and that I am waiting on my controllers and lighthouses - I would recommend it.  The seated flying experience even on a laptop with eGPU is great.  I did a lot of testing and fighting with it to come to the realisation - leave SteamVR at 100% for both Video and Apps and just use the PiTool Render adjustment slider instead.  That and bump the Hz of the 8K down to 64Hz from the 80Hz which has brought much better image quality for me in both Assetto Corsa and Il2.

 

My issue is I have a cracked headset on the LHS but I was a low 1k backer and probably got an early batch which was prone to this.  Through the forum and via email I have been in contact with Pimax and I have recourse in being able to ship the headset back to the UK, give Pimax the shipping number and then they will ship out a replacement to me. I have held off for the moment as the cracking is not an issue with using the headset and other backers seem to be still waiting for delivery.  This should all most be cleared up with back deliveries and I will then send my headset in for replacement.

 

I look forward to having a lighthouse for 6DOF movement and towards the later part of the year I will build up a desktop system or at least replace my laptop with something that has a better CPU in it with boost clocks approaching 5Ghz.  Probably a desktop system though.  Then I can run Wide FOV, Ultra Il2 settings with a bump in resolution to get the most out of the headset.  I don't think using faster refresh rate is warranted over 64Hz given the image quality degradation.

[Blackhawk_FR]

On 3/29/2019 at 9:31 PM, HenFre said:

I am trying to make a tutorial on snap rolls in the Bf 109 E-7 and it is proving to be the hardest maneuver yet I have had to master. Do you have any tips on how to perform this maneuver? I start by pulling back hard and fast on the stick, then deflect left rudder fully, then when at 270 degree roll I move the stick forward and kick the opposite rudder. Often the plane ends in a spin 

 

I never really tried snap rolls with 109s. 

If you keep back stick during the snaproll, you will loose a lot of energy due to high AoA, and it'll be harder to have a precise stop. 

Start the flick with full back stick, then immediatly after left or right rudder, then full ailerons (same direction as rudder of course) with a bit of foward stick. All of that in a very short timing of 1 second. And all commands movements got to be extremely fast. 

[HenFre]

19 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

If you keep back stick during the snaproll, you will loose a lot of energy due to high AoA, and it'll be harder to have a precise stop.  

 

I have been doing this, because when I move the stick forward the momentum of the roll is lost.

 

19 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Start the flick with full back stick, then immediatly after left or right rudder, then full ailerons (same direction as rudder of course) with a bit of foward stick. All of that in a very short timing of 1 second. And all commands movements got to be extremely fast. 

 

I have not tried to use the ailerons in the maneuver, so perhaps this is the secret ingredient that I have been missing. Thank you for helping me

[Hawk-2a]

23 hours ago, HenFre said:

 

I have been doing this, because when I move the stick forward the momentum of the roll is lost.

 

 

I have not tried to use the ailerons in the maneuver, so perhaps this is the secret ingredient that I have been missing. Thank you for helping me

 

I tried snap rolling with an F4 yesterday. For a snap roll left it seems to work best if I pull the stick to my 8 o'clock and at the same time apply full left rudder. Then as soon as i snap inverted i revert the movements to recover. stick to the 2 o'clock and hard rudder right for just a moment and you recover pretty quickly.

 

I didn't master it yet, as if I hold it for too long i'll snap twice and go into a stall. But when it works you lose like 50-100 kp/h immediately without really dropping altitude.

Edited April 2, 2019 by SteelFalcon
typo

[Herne]

I'd love to see some formation aerobatic displays in IL2. Unfortunately about the best I could hope to achieve is to hold a tight formation in reasonably straight and level flight.

[HenFre]

On 4/2/2019 at 10:02 AM, SteelFalcon said:

I tried snap rolling with an F4 yesterday. For a snap roll left it seems to work best if I pull the stick to my 8 o'clock and at the same time apply full left rudder. Then as soon as i snap inverted i revert the movements to recover. stick to the 2 o'clock and hard rudder right for just a moment and you recover pretty quickly.

 

That sounds like how Requiem shows how to snap a WW1 fighter and I have not made this work on the Bf 109 E-7. As i remember the plane just did not snap, but just rolled a bit faster. A real snap is done in the blink of an eye. However I will give it another go because you said it could work 

 

On 4/2/2019 at 3:52 PM, =11=Herne said:

I'd love to see some formation aerobatic displays in IL2. Unfortunately about the best I could hope to achieve is to hold a tight formation in reasonably straight and level flight.

 

That would be awesome to see formation aerobatics in IL-2. I am up for it when I have practiced some more.

Do you want to learn some aerobatics? Then have a look at my tutorials:

 

This is my newest:

 

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by HenFre

[blitze]

5 hours ago, =11=Herne said:

I'd love to see some formation aerobatic displays in IL2. Unfortunately about the best I could hope to achieve is to hold a tight formation in reasonably straight and level flight.

Love wingtip to wingtip formation flying in career but sometimes the AI gets a little paranoid ?

 

There was a time I slapped down my wing-mans wingtip with my own, that was funny.

[Psyrion]

No idea if that counts but I love just following tree-lined roads and rivers as close to the ground as I can. Gives you a proper sence of speed. Oh, and those very straight roads through some of the towns are great for that too.

[Blackhawk_FR]

5 hours ago, =11=Herne said:

I'd love to see some formation aerobatic displays in IL2. Unfortunately about the best I could hope to achieve is to hold a tight formation in reasonably straight and level flight.

 

Hell yes, that was so fun... 

 

 

[Hawk-2a]

1 hour ago, HenFre said:

That sounds like how Requiem shows how to snap a WW1 fighter and I have not made this work on the Bf 109 E-7. As i remember the plane just did not snap, but just rolled a bit faster. A real snap is done in the blink of an eye. However I will give it another go because you said it could work 

 

Yeah i got the basic idea from there, then I tried with only rudder, or pulling the stick to a straight 9 the immediately to the 6 but i found the 8 pos with full rudder to work best. It snaps really fast in my opinion (at least thr F4, did not try the E-7.) Almost too fast ? recovery is a bit tricky for me still. Gotta train more haha

 

let me know if it worked! 

Edited April 2, 2019 by SteelFalcon

[HenFre]

14 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

Hell yes, that was so fun... 

 

Amazing video  Is this team still flying?

 

12 hours ago, SteelFalcon said:

let me know if it worked! 

 

I will  Again thanks for the input.

[Blackhawk_FR]

2 hours ago, HenFre said:

Amazing video  Is this team still flying?

 

No we're not anymore 

[ITAF_Rani]

Could be nice have a virtual air show with IL2 GB battle planes....maybe in streaming to show the sim to others...

Edited April 3, 2019 by ITAF_Rani

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

Count me in if you need someone.

 

[Blackhawk_FR]

2 hours ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Could be nice have a virtual air show with IL2 GB battle planes....maybe in streaming to show the sim to others...

 

Sure! There is cool aerobatics to do with those FMs.

[Diggun]

1 minute ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

There is cool aerobatics to do with those FMs.

We need a team of a20's......

[IckyATLAS]

4 hours ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Count me in if you need someone.

 

WoW nice. But I hope your plane is in a vulnerable and damageable mode.

[HenFre]

8 hours ago, F/JG300_Faucon said:

No we're not anymore 

 

Sad to hear that. How many where you in the squad?

 

7 hours ago, ITAF_Rani said:

Could be nice have a virtual air show with IL2 GB battle planes....maybe in streaming to show the sim to others...

 

I have just watched a stream on Twitch where people where flying aerobatics in DCS. Both as teams and individual pilots. It looked like a lot of fun.

 

7 hours ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Count me in if you need someone. 

 

Nice flying, but I did not see many aerobatic maneuvers in that show ?

 

5 hours ago, Diggun said:

We need a team of a20's...…

 

Could be a great show 

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

16 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

WoW nice. But I hope your plane is in a vulnerable and damageable mode.

Full Realism Settings where on. Took me about a Weekend to get it down to a 1/4 chance of not crashing. But there where many Explosions on that path.

[IckyATLAS]

4 hours ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

Full Realism Settings where on. Took me about a Weekend to get it down to a 1/4 chance of not crashing. But there where many Explosions on that path.

Now I feel better. Good aerobatics is very hard work, a need a lot of practicing. When it seems easy this means that behind there has been a lot of work to get to the result. I did aerobatics in the real life and have a licence for that. But amazingly it does not excite me at all to do it in a simulator. In aerobatics gravity and various centrifugal forces are maximized and so it is a very physical thing, and in our simulators this lacks completely.

Flying a fighter plane is also physical in combat but there you have an objective, that is to bring down your enemy, or destroy a given target. So the mind is concentrated on a mission or a target, and not having the physical feeling is not so problematic. 

However in pure aerobatics if you do not feel the stress on the plane the engine, the wings, and the various forces, then you basically loose all of it and what remains is just geometrical figures, and probably this is not enough for me to go for it. But this is purely subjective as I have been spoiled by the real thing ? .

[[PFR]Sarpalaxan]

18 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Now I feel better. Good aerobatics is very hard work, a need a lot of practicing. When it seems easy this means that behind there has been a lot of work to get to the result. I did aerobatics in the real life and have a licence for that. But amazingly it does not excite me at all to do it in a simulator. In aerobatics gravity and various centrifugal forces are maximized and so it is a very physical thing, and in our simulators this lacks completely.

Flying a fighter plane is also physical in combat but there you have an objective, that is to bring down your enemy, or destroy a given target. So the mind is concentrated on a mission or a target, and not having the physical feeling is not so problematic. 

However in pure aerobatics if you do not feel the stress on the plane the engine, the wings, and the various forces, then you basically loose all of it and what remains is just geometrical figures, and probably this is not enough for me to go for it. But this is purely subjective as I have been spoiled by the real thing ? .

I think it's pretty understandable that having access to the Real thing would kill your interest in doing it in a simulator. At least for Aerobatics, as I would never want to engage in real combat. Just having a driver's licence killed my interest in Racing Games. But for someone that doesn't have the necessary funds it's a way to experience some parts of the experience.

But hey, what compels you to get up in the morning if you don't have any dreams left.

[Blackhawk_FR]

19 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

Now I feel better. Good aerobatics is very hard work, a need a lot of practicing. When it seems easy this means that behind there has been a lot of work to get to the result. I did aerobatics in the real life and have a licence for that. But amazingly it does not excite me at all to do it in a simulator. In aerobatics gravity and various centrifugal forces are maximized and so it is a very physical thing, and in our simulators this lacks completely.

Flying a fighter plane is also physical in combat but there you have an objective, that is to bring down your enemy, or destroy a given target. So the mind is concentrated on a mission or a target, and not having the physical feeling is not so problematic. 

However in pure aerobatics if you do not feel the stress on the plane the engine, the wings, and the various forces, then you basically loose all of it and what remains is just geometrical figures, and probably this is not enough for me to go for it. But this is purely subjective as I have been spoiled by the real thing ? .

 

Yes and no (IMHO). You still have the pleasure of the "seek of precision". 

In my case, I feel the same pleasure I have IRL to do a 4 points hesitation roll with the Dora (especially because they modeled very precise and sweet ailerons on this one). 

Edited April 5, 2019 by F/JG300_Faucon

[IckyATLAS]

2 hours ago, [GG]Sarpalaxan said:

I think it's pretty understandable that having access to the Real thing would kill your interest in doing it in a simulator. At least for Aerobatics, as I would never want to engage in real combat. Just having a driver's licence killed my interest in Racing Games. But for someone that doesn't have the necessary funds it's a way to experience some parts of the experience.

But hey, what compels you to get up in the morning if you don't have any dreams left.

Don't worry, I have many many other dreams not fulfilled yet. I still hope to be able to fly in a mustang, the real one ?