Arras Map

[Stygmat]

Hi,  do you have any problems with Arras Map in quick mission menu? I only can see russian maps, from WWII Sturmovik versions

[Panzerlang]

The Arras map has not been released yet.

[ShamrockOneFive]

The map is still very much a work in progress. The last we've seen of it is on a recent developer diary:

 

 

[Feathered_IV]

I’m looking forward to seeing what the Noman’s Land areas will look like.  Seeing as the SP content is mostly centered around QMB I’m waiting to see if there is enough of a wow factor there to make up for the shortfalls in AI and mission variety before deciding if it’s worth a buy. 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Finger crossed for 3d trenches, and new  mission type  (strafe and bomb infantry during major pushes)  which was given to Camels squad too. 

[the_dudeWG]

I was impressed with what was shown to us initially. I liked how they made the encampments in the citadel, and hope to see more of that along the front. No man's land had to be one of RoF's weakest links. It was just a barren moonscape with no life other than probably one of RoF's worst features ... ambient flak! For the love of everything good, please do not give us ambient flak again! S!

Edited March 25, 2019 by the_dudeWG

[SeaW0lf]

Yes, for the love of God, no ambient flak! Or at least give the servers (multiplayer) and players (single mission / quick mission) the option to uncheck it. This feature is extremely negative to game play.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

This (ambient) and heavy AA shooting to airplanes flying tree top level.

[yaan98]

I know they mentioned the number of square kilometers, but anyone have a rough idea on the upper, lower, east and west limits that this map will encompass? 

[PatCartier]

8 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Finger crossed for 3d trenches, and new  mission type  (strafe and bomb infantry during major pushes)  which was given to Camels squad too. 

Martin Luther King said something similar...

^^

[SeaW0lf]

5 hours ago, yaan98 said:

I know they mentioned the number of square kilometers, but anyone have a rough idea on the upper, lower, east and west limits that this map will encompass? 

 

I think they said it would encompass Lile, Arras and Cappy. 

[1PL-Lucas-1Esk]

The map will be around 100 x 100 km's

 

As for the 3d trenches, I seriously doubt about that, as that would require to change the terrain mesh resolution. But maybe a feature from the old Red Baron 3D could be implemented - the a-c collision with the trenches when on ground?

[Feathered_IV]

9 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

I was impressed with what was shown to us initially. I liked how they made the encampments in the citadel, and hope to see more of that along the front. No man's land had to be one of RoF's weakest links. It was just a barren moonscape with no life other than probably one of RoF's worst features ... ambient flak! For the love of everything good, please do not give us ambient flak again! S!

 

I can see how it may have been a spotting issue in MP, but in single player I was grateful for the battlesmoke and ambient flak.  There would have been **** all going on anywhere if it wasn’t for that.  

[CanadaOne]

Can you imagine if there is gas artillery with the green smoke rolling over the trenches?

 

That would impart some... ambiance.

 

Certainly inspire ya to go artillery hunting in your Dolphin.

[SeaW0lf]

26 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

I can see how it may have been a spotting issue in MP, but in single player I was grateful for the battlesmoke and ambient flak.  There would have been **** all going on anywhere if it wasn’t for that.  

 

I assume it affects both multiplayer and single player, because spotting and spatial awareness are the same for both. Regarding atmosphere, I think it is also detrimental, because we know it is fake and it overlaps with real flak and you have to pay attention to both even to try to differentiate it (and it can trick you sometimes, especially when you don't have time to waste with it). At least for who is trying to find and fight enemy planes, be it real players or AI, it is a pain and we have to go through it at every mission. Now if you know that flak is followed by enemy planes, or friendly planes for that matter, then it takes the mission into another level of realism and atmosphere.

 

For single player it is just my opinion. Some people like, as you mentioned.

 

I think someone mentioned that ambient flak was dear to the heart of someone in particular from the devs crew, but since they are porting the game to a new engine, I imagine it won't be a problem to give us the option to uncheck it both for multiplayer (at servers discretion) and single player (at players discretion). Especially since we’ve been asking for this for years and most enthusiasts agree that the feature is more something from Red Baron era than anything.

 

In general we are just asking to have the option to uncheck it, especially because this is the time - when they are tweaking the codes.

[the_dudeWG]

For the frontline atmosphere, we had the "active front" mod in RoF, which basically added harmless ground explosions all along the front in and around no man's land. That worked way better than ambient flak. If we had something like that with some military encampments along both sides of the front, it would really add a lot to the game at little cost. S!

 

Edit: I had to look it up, but this mod was one of the best out there ...

 

More Active Front with No Ambient Flak by *steppenwolf* (modified by Bucksnort)

https://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/43814-mod-rof-ulitmate-mods-pack/

 

 

Edited March 26, 2019 by the_dudeWG

[yaan98]

I'd be interested if there was an option to enable a more detailed map where one can see a heavy ground war going on down below to enhance the feel of some missions.

 

I would imagine a combination of effects would give FC atmosphere, like weather (haze, mist, fog, rain, snow etc...), visible deep "messy" mud following heavy rains, a complex network of trenches, burnt/broken trees, buildings and littered with craters in no man's land. It would be nice to see heavy artillery activity in the areas where actual battles took place during that time. 

 

 

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

13 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

RoF's worst features ... ambient flak! For the love of everything good, please do not give us ambient flak again!

 

?X1000

[US213_Talbot]

Would be cool if trenches were actually lined out like they way they were in whatever year the map is. Shouldn't be too terribly difficult to lay them out using historical maps.

[JG1_Vonrd]

14 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

 probably one of RoF's worst features ... ambient flak! For the love of everything good, please do not give us ambient flak again! S!

Baeumer, I'll raise your X1000 by another X1000. 

6 hours ago, PatCartier said:

Martin Luther King said something similar...

^^

Was that the "I have a dream" speech?

[J5_Gamecock]

Funny, but if IRCC the ambient flak was actually added after people said they thought it'd be cool.

 

Moral is... be careful what you wish for.?

 

  GC

Edited March 26, 2019 by J5_Gamecock

[SeaW0lf]

In this case I don't blame the devs, but since I arrived in multiplayer (2013) we are asking for the option at least to uncheck it, and IIRC someone said that ambient flak was dear to someone in the crew, to don't expect any changes. ROF is old as well, so perhaps a lot of people were still with Red Baron in their minds?

 

When I played BOX for a while in 2017 and came back to ROF, perhaps the only thing that I cursed to have back was ambient flak. So as far as I'm concerned, I won't miss it a bit.

 

We are now in 2019. No need to force everybody to deal with a 1990 feature when simulation was novelty and was just coming out of the pinball age. An option to uncheck it is not too much to ask.

[yaan98]

On 3/25/2019 at 6:28 PM, SeaW0lf said:

 

I think they said it would encompass Lile, Arras and Cappy. 

 

So, this would be my guess on the area that the map will cover which would include a good amount of famous cities. Red area is about 10,000 sq. km.

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by yaan98

[US103_Baer]

What I really, really hope for, are well thought-out tactical missions for Artillery spotting, photo recon, contact patrols, light and heavy bombing etc. 

This IS what the airwar was about. Everything else grew out of these. So build these missions properly, give us the planes to fly them and the rest will come naturally.

 

Graphically i guess it will look quite like BoX, though there's an opportunity to portray what is I believe a rather pretty part of France. 

 

In the Stormbirds article Jason mentions the map is under development but they haven't seen it yet, (that caught my attention!). It's being done by Ugra Media.

 

On the plus side, there could be some new thinking being applied and not necessarily just copying RoF. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by US103_Baer

[yaan98]

18 hours ago, US103_Baer said:

What I really, really hope for, are well thought-out tactical missions for Artillery spotting, photo recon, contact patrols, light and heavy bombing etc. 

This IS what the airwar was about. Everything else grew out of these. So build these missions properly, give us the planes to fly them and the rest will come naturally.

 

 

Exactly my sentiments. Bundled with historical accuracy and I'll be playing forever forging my own WW1 pilot story.

[SeaW0lf]

Artillery spotting and photo recon are one of my favorites. Did them in almost every full real mission back in the day. And... The Gotha Bring the heavyweights! Love them.

[Feathered_IV]

The Gotha was fantastic.  Never a dull moment in that thing.  Even a take off and landing was a white knuckle experience. 

[ShamrockOneFive]

We already know what the extent of the Arras map is.

 

 

I'm not nearly as well versed in WWI operations as I am in WWII but this seems like a decent sized setup (all things considered) with ample space on both sides of the front.

[Feathered_IV]

I wonder how much the frontlines moved in that region during the course of the war.  

[J2_Trupobaw]

On 3/27/2019 at 12:23 AM, J5_Gamecock said:

Funny, but if IRCC the ambient flak was actually added after people said they thought it'd be cool.

 

Moral is... be careful what you wish for.?

 

  GC

Mumble mumble Bender grumble grumble Pfalz....

[CanadaOne]

11 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I wonder how much the frontlines moved in that region during the course of the war.  

 

It was a busy place, that's for sure.

 

Vimy Ridge, the tank attack at Cambrai and the German stormtrooper response, and the Allied attack at Amiens at the end of the war, all on that map. Along with 101 other horror shows no doubt. And lots of gas I'm sure.

[J5_Gamecock]

17 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I wonder how much the frontlines moved in that region during the course of the war.  

Very little.  There wasn't any real movement until the British offensive in April 1917.  In three days they,(Canadian  divisions), were able to advance approx. 3 kilometers... a distance which was thought to be astounding! This was the battle of Vimy Ridge which stayed under British control for the rest of the war.

 

 The German spring offensive in 1918 pushed the lines further to the west, but the majority of the fighting was done more to the south of Arras. By summer of 1918 the German army had begun retreating all along the front.

Edited March 28, 2019 by J5_Gamecock

[Feathered_IV]

Thanks!  That’s encouraging.  Sounds like the map will work well for a number of time periods.  

[Enceladus828]

3 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

In three days they,(Canadian  divisions), were able to advance approx. 3 kilometers... a distance which was thought to be astounding! This was the battle of Vimy Ridge which stayed under British control for the rest of the war.

Interesting fact is that my great-grandfather and his two brothers, and my grandmother’s father all fought at Vimy and all survived the war. They all fought for Canada.

[yaan98]

21 hours ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

We already know what the extent of the Arras map is.

 

I'm not nearly as well versed in WWI operations as I am in WWII but this seems like a decent sized setup (all things considered) with ample space on both sides of the front.

 

Thanks, I didn't know. 

 

I think that area of the map is probably best used for bloody April missions. From my understanding, that map misses most of the major battles of 1917 including the main area of conflict in the Nivelle offensive which was further south and the battle of Ypres which was further up north. Maybe some of the battles that took place during the winter of 1917 and into 1918 is where that area will be relevant. As already mentioned, the bulk of major 1918 battles were fought further south of Arras. 

 

[unreasonable]

5 hours ago, J5_Gamecock said:

Very little.  There wasn't any real movement until the British offensive in April 1917.  In three days they,(Canadian  divisions), were able to advance approx. 3 kilometers... a distance which was thought to be astounding! This was the battle of Vimy Ridge which stayed under British control for the rest of the war.

 

 The German spring offensive in 1918 pushed the lines further to the west, but the majority of the fighting was done more to the south of Arras. By summer of 1918 the German army had begun retreating all along the front.

 

Actually a great deal of movement, given the small area of the map coverage, during the 1918 period FC is supposed to cover.

 

The NML marked represents the relatively static front line from 1917: in the German 1918 March offensive the British ended up defending in front of Amiens at the extreme west end of the map in the Somme sector: by the war's end the Germans had been pushed off the map entirely.   For most of the period from March 1918 onwards the "lines" where the armies actually fought would have looked like WW2: scattered field entrenchments dug in during mobile warfare, not a static front with a defined NML of joned up shell craters and deep trench systems.  Of course the old NML and trenches were still there. 

 

I doubt this will be reflected in the map at all: I take it to be a representative mid war map that appeals to people's idea of WW1,  with NML, trench systems, static fronts. I do not see FC as attempting to align accurately with what happened on the ground.; at least not yet. Perhaps a career will try to do this.

 

  

Edited March 29, 2019 by unreasonable

[Flashy]

9 hours ago, unreasonable said:

 

Actually a great deal of movement, given the small area of the map coverage, during the 1918 period FC is supposed to cover.

 

The NML marked represents the relatively static front line from 1917: in the German 1918 March offensive the British ended up defending in front of Amiens at the extreme west end of the map in the Somme sector: by the war's end the Germans had been pushed off the map entirely.   For most of the period from March 1918 onwards the "lines" where the armies actually fought would have looked like WW2: scattered field entrenchments dug in during mobile warfare, not a static front with a defined NML of joned up shell craters and deep trench systems.  Of course the old NML and trenches were still there. 

 

I doubt this will be reflected in the map at all: I take it to be a representative mid war map that appeals to people's idea of WW1,  with NML, trench systems, static fronts. I do not see FC as attempting to align accurately with what happened on the ground.; at least not yet. Perhaps a career will try to do this.

 

  

 

Yeah the issue here is that even though the front didnt move that much over the war as a whole (1915 is pretty much static for example), the time and place where it DID actually move quite a bit is exactly where FC is set - around Arras in 1917 / 1918. You can check out this awesome video and website showing exactly how much it moves, but I think what they will probably do is give us a summer 1917 map, where the Germans have already withdrawn to the hindenburg line and before the spring offensive in 1918. This was a pretty static time. 

 

Personally, I'd rather see  a much more immersive and realistic front line in FC rather than a moving front. The front in RoF (as others have said) was okay for 2009, but it was basically just a texture painted onto certain areas of the map, with no 3D trenches or craters or anything, and was pretty disappointing. They tried to spice it up with the dust cloud (a nice feature!) and the ambient flak (not so nice),but it never really looked like anything other than a flat texture.   I hope they are able to leverage the new landscape tech they have developed for TC and do something much better for 2019.. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Flashy

[yaan98]

Not really about a moving front, but improved textures would be nice. To me, I'd be more concerned with the lack in the variety of missions available in quiet zones of the front without a ground war going on. As well as the lack of any build up of ground forces leading to tense battles (or urgency to complete critical missions) both in the air and on the ground.

 

Would be very limited single player fun dueling with the Red Baron's squad every so often or defending/shooting down balloons over and around Arras area if that's all that's going to happen.

Edited March 29, 2019 by yaan98

[Ceowulf]

If we are so lucky as to get FC 2 and beyond, it would be cool if the maps could be sewn together for career.  Otherwise, you could be stationed at the wrong airbase and always be worried not to fly out "the combat area."  

 

Ceowulf<><