An Flying Circus related interview with Jason Williams

[ShamrockOneFive]

Hey folks,

I've been doing an interview series with Jason Williams and Daniel Tuseev and I thought I would share in this forum because part three is Flying Circus (and Tank Crew) related. I ask him some questions that are fairly general but also some specific ones that I know have come up in the community before. I hope you enjoy!

 

https://stormbirds.blog/2019/03/21/part-3-an-interview-with-jason-williams-on-tank-crew-and-flying-circus/

[No.23_Gaylion]

Great article but horribly inaccurate main pic. Major Hartney would never let a Fokker on his 6.

 

?

 

Keep up the good work.

Edited March 21, 2019 by US103_Talbot

[FTC_Woop]

Excellent this. Keep up the good work!

[Cynic_Al]

I note quite a few occurrences of the word 'time', in fact he seems quite preoccupied with the stuff. I thought perhaps we could send him some.

[=gRiJ=Roman-]

Excellent pieces of news within the interview.

[the_dudeWG]

Jason: “Assuming we can get a Volume 2 going, that is indeed my hope, but it’s a big job. “ ("a big job" in reference to a career mode for FC)

 

Not the most encouraging sign on the probability of  FC2, which if doesn't happen, makes Flying Circus a total waste of time and effort  ... in my opinion. It's not even about money at this point. Just finish one WWI product for goodness sake. I don't need zeppelins, I don't need flying boats, I don't need an Italian map, just a complete 1917 -1918 plane set with 2-seaters. I'll trust Pat Wilson with the career stuff, especially compared to what we ended up with from 777 in RoF. 

Edited March 22, 2019 by the_dudeWG

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, the_dudeWG said:

I'll trust Pat Wilson with the career stuff, especially compared to what we ended up with from 777 in RoF. 

 

Well, what we have in ROF from 777 has been significantly improved in BoS.

[yaan98]

2 hours ago, the_dudeWG said:

Not the most encouraging sign on the probability of  FC2, which if doesn't happen, makes Flying Circus a total waste of time and effort  ... in my opinion. It's not even about money at this point. Just finish one WWI product for goodness sake. I don't need zeppelins, I don't need flying boats, I don't need an Italian map, just a complete 1917 -1918 plane set with 2-seaters. I'll trust Pat Wilson with the career stuff

+1 Very true. I can't imagine waiting for a complete plane set but instead end up having a handful of fighter planes and an Arras map.... A very expensive VR demo. 

[the_dudeWG]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Well, what we have in ROF from 777 has been significantly improved in BoS.

And I would welcome that with open arms. I just don't want to see the same thing happen to FC that happened to RoF; new projects started before the completion of the content already provided.

[BraveSirRobin]

41 minutes ago, the_dudeWG said:

And I would welcome that with open arms. I just don't want to see the same thing happen to FC that happened to RoF; new projects started before the completion of the content already provided.

 

I have bad news for you.  The same thing will happen to FC that happened to RoF.  In fact, that happens to almost every software product.  Unless the developer just abandons it completely.  There is no such thing as "completion of the content".  They update until they decide to move on to something new, or the lack of customers make that decision for them.

[JGr2/J5_Baeumer]

14 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

I note quite a few occurrences of the word 'time', in fact he seems quite preoccupied with the stuff. I thought perhaps we could send him some.

 

Time = Money

 

In this business it's an inverse relationship...the more money the developer has the less time is required for customers to wait for the product but in a quirk of spatial time relativity it results in more time allocated to the customers to enjoy the product sooner.  Weird but simple solution to initiate this phenomena.....

 

Buy the early release and all the add on and collector planes and what not when those become available.  

Edited March 22, 2019 by J5_Baeumer
spell check

[Panzerlang]

50 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I have bad news for you.  The same thing will happen to FC that happened to RoF.  In fact, that happens to almost every software product.  Unless the developer just abandons it completely.  There is no such thing as "completion of the content".  They update until they decide to move on to something new, or the lack of customers make that decision for them.

And maybe that's why far less people have bought into FC this time around. Once bitten etc?

[Zooropa_Fly]

7 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

I have bad news for you.  The same thing will happen to FC that happened to RoF.  In fact, that happens to almost every software product.  Unless the developer just abandons it completely.  There is no such thing as "completion of the content".  They update until they decide to move on to something new, or the lack of customers make that decision for them.

 

I agree to a point, it's like recording songs - you've got to draw a line under them at some point.

Howerever RoF was pretty much abandoned as I see it, there's several problematic issues that persist.

The most glaring of which is probably the incorrect S-16 icon - how long would that have taken to fix ?

 

If FC1 is all we get, I'd rather have had half a dozen new crates and some polishing to RoF, and I'd probably regret buying FC, along with all the BoX stuff I decided to buy as a way of getting used to the new interface etc. as well as supporting the Devs.

 

Still, we live and hope..

[BraveSirRobin]

6 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

And maybe that's why far less people have bought into FC this time around. Once bitten etc?

 

If that’s the reason, then they should never buy software of any kind.  Ever.

38 minutes ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

 

Howerever RoF was pretty much abandoned as I see it, there's several problematic issues that persist.

 

 

Every game ever developed has been “abandoned” with “glaring” issues.

[Archie]

23 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

I note quite a few occurrences of the word 'time', in fact he seems quite preoccupied with the stuff. I thought perhaps we could send him some.

Time=money. Maybe buy FC if you want to help,  you seem to spend enough time here anyway.

[Panzerlang]

45 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

If that’s the reason, then they should never buy software of any kind.  Ever.

 

Every game ever developed has been “abandoned” with “glaring” issues.

Hardly. No piece of software will ever end up 100% perfect but there are plenty of games that hit the shelf in very good order and were then polished to near perfection within a few months.

RoF suffered from taking so long that many players had already burned out by the time the 'full package' was done and delivered. At least with FC volume 1 we're getting a 2-seater for each side, though it's a shame the Entente one is pretty much a fighter in its own right (no easy fodder for Jerry there then).

It's often hard to tell if it's a lack of vision or need for income that borks affairs like this. But I made my purchases with my eyes open, so "meh". Lol.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Going open source can make game near perfection, which we could  seen in the past. Good example is id software. Some title old as 22 years still have active players (competitive environment) and new builds.  They are niche now same as RoF is.

[BMA_Hellbender]

57 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

Going open source can make game near perfection, which we could  seen in the past. Good example is id software. Some title old as 22 years still have active players (competitive environment) and new builds.  They are niche now same as RoF is.

 

I was in that camp a long time ago (I can say that now, 5 years is an eternity in software development). Not so much open source but a dedicated mod team akin to Team Daidalos for IL-2 1946, to fix a few longstanding bugs, keep the lights on, maybe even produce some missing content.

 

Didn’t happen.

 

 

Then I was really looking forward to Mad Otter getting a new Red Baron out. It was going to be similar to WarThunder at first glance.

 

 

Didn’t happen. (I think they make F2P mobile games now)

 

 

Then there were rumours of the actual Gaijin/WarThunder studio getting a WWI expansion out.

 

Didn’t happen.

 

 

Then Eagle Dynamics/DCS toyed with the idea of a Sopwith Camel.

 

Didn’t happen.

 

 

Then Battlefield 1 was announced with footage of Camels, Dr.Is, Bristol Fighters and Halberstadt CL.IIs going at it.

 

I’m still trying to pretend it didn’t happen.

 

 

And now we actually have Flying Circus, in early access, in the BoS engine, something I was convinced would never happen.

 

 

As one of two studios in the whole world working on a WWI flightsim, I think they must know better than any of us here that the best advice for making one is: don’t.

 

For the record, the other studio is OBD Software, who I mention only to be exhaustive, as they are neither a studio nor making their own flightsim (it all runs on 17-year-old CFS3). And also for the record: while their research is exhaustive and all performance figures correct to a fault, their sim is more of an interactive museum and history book than a proper combat flightsim with aircraft physics and multiplayer. Not that you shouldn’t support them for their efforts, but it’s a very different experience.

 

 

In conclusion: what we have now is far from perfect, but it’s workable and it has better online replay value than anything else out there. So take it from me: making demands will either lead to nothing at best, or lead to unwanted changes at worst (hello RoF 1.034!) — and on top of that you will share the blame for having brought it up in the first place (hello Pfalz!).

 

I’m not sure whether age has made me jaded or just more realistic about my expectations, but please enjoy what we have. It’s good — it honestly really is.

 

And enjoy it quickly, because we’ll have the two-seaters soon enough and when Captain Darling gets in the back of my Bristol you’ll all be dead anyway. That man is a live bonafide aimbot.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Hellbender

[No.23_Gaylion]

Just now, Hellbender said:

 

And enjoy it quickly, because we’ll have the two-seaters soon enough and when Captain Darling gets in the back of my Bristol you’ll all be dead anyway.

 

Dont you mean Cl2....?

[BMA_Hellbender]

3 minutes ago, US103_Talbot said:

 

Dont you mean Cl2....?

 

We’ll have to try them both, obviously. ?

 

I actually fear for the Bristol (or fear for everything else, really), because its only real weaknesses are its weak wings in a dogfight, and at least with the Camel that no longer happens. I think we’ll know more with the SE5a (if that one’s next), which is similarly fragile.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Hellbender

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

@Hellbender I enjoy RoF more than il2 GB , I participate in FIF and BA , BS

[BMA_Hellbender]

2 minutes ago, 307_Tomcat said:

@Hellbender I enjoy RoF more than il2 GB , I participate in FIF and BA , BS

 

I know you do, I wasn’t directing any of that at you in particular. ?

 

It’s just that I also think (or at least thought) that open source would save RoF’s slow decline. It may yet do that in the very long term, but with FC here now I like to think that the devs themselves still have some plans for it.

[CB77Don246]

Try First Eagles 2 a lot has been done to mod it, the ai modded by VonS is a must have it's a blast.

 

https://combatace.com/forums/forum/101-thirdwire-first-eagles-12/

[BraveSirRobin]

2 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

Hardly. No piece of software will ever end up 100% perfect but there are plenty of games that hit the shelf in very good order and were then polished to near perfection within a few months.

 

Sorry, but if you think that RoF was “abandoned”, then every game ever produced was “abandoned”.  Because I guarantee that there is someone somewhere saying the same thing about game X that you’re saying about RoF.  So just don’t bother, because every game is “abandoned”.

[Zooropa_Fly]

I can understand EA for WW2 stuff, a huge amount of effectively contemporary 'stuff' and environments already exist.

 

But for FC (and maybe TC), I still think EA was a mistake.

If they'd held back until it was done, it would have been released with all the fanfare it should have been released with, and having waited so long for it I believe the instant take-up would have been significant.

As it is there are many RoF'ers (yes there are one or two still kicking) who are still on the fence about buying FC, and when they ask in the chat they get mixed responses.

Seeing all the FM discussions as the planes drip out probably doesn't help either. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it is a forum after all, but none the less it can be divisive.

 

Hopefully when the map arrives it'll get a bit of a bump in sales, assuming sales need a bump at this stage.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Zooropa_Fly

[Guest deleted@83466]

2 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

I can understand EA for WW2 stuff, a huge amount of effectively contemporary 'stuff' and environments already exist.

 

But for FC (and maybe TC), I still think EA was a mistake.

If they'd held back until it was done, it would have been released with all the fanfare it should have been released with, and having waited so long for it I believe the instant take-up would have been significant.

As it is there are many RoF'ers (yes there are one or two still kicking) who are still on the fence about buying FC, and when they ask in the chat they get mixed responses.

Seeing all the FM discussions as the planes drip out probably doesn't help either. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it is a forum after all, but none the less it can be divisive.

 

Hopefully when the map arrives it'll get a bit of a bump in sales, assuming sales need a bump at this stage.

 

 

I don't see any problem with the way they've rolled it out through early access.  There seems to be a lot of catastrophizing over the state of the game or a "lack of interest", even though the game is only about 50% complete, and doesn't have a map.  Some of these concerns strike me as being premature.

 

That said, I'm guessing the World-War-One-Or-Bust crowd is pretty small.  Most potential players can fly a lot of other things than just WW1 planes and be happy.  There is a lot of competition out there for player hours that maybe RoF didn't have back in it's heydey.  In other modules, or other games, you can fly a P-47 or an La-5FN or a Tomcat or Huey, things that I'm guessing excite a larger proportion of flight simmers than a Spad or a Camel.  That's just the way it is.  And then, and I don't know how widespread this feeling is, but RoF multiplayer died out because a lot of people simply became sick of it...After playing for many hours, I know that I got tired of a lot of the other players, the servers and server operators, the tribalism, the same old planes, etc..and the whole subject of WW1 in general.  I went to BoX because that's where the action was at and seems to remain.  So why should someone like me invest my time in Flying Circus?  Not only is the question of how much more of an enjoyable experience would I have in FC over the one I had in RoF, but how is it going to surpass the things I'm currently playing, like BoX and DCS?  People only have so much leisure time, and they want to maximize their enjoyment.  And the thing is, for most combat flight simmers, I think these are really good times, with lots of "tough" (First World) choices to be made. 

 

Nobody knows if FC 1 will be a success, or if there will ever be a FC 2.  I think that people need to stop acting like the sky is falling because it's too early.  On the other hand, I doubt that Multiplayer will ever see the kind of numbers that BoX sees, because that's just the nature of the beast.  It might be best to adjust one's expectations.  Or, maybe, it'll be a smashing success and a year from now they'll be mission oriented servers with 50+ people on them at all hours.  I don't feel I'm in a rush to either embrace or reject FC, based on it's current state or level of playership.

Edited March 22, 2019 by SeaSerpent

[Panzerlang]

2 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Sorry, but if you think that RoF was “abandoned”, then every game ever produced was “abandoned”.  Because I guarantee that there is someone somewhere saying the same thing about game X that you’re saying about RoF.  So just don’t bother, because every game is “abandoned”.

You've mistaken me for a different poster, I never said "abandoned".

[BraveSirRobin]

27 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

You've mistaken me for a different poster, I never said "abandoned".

 

Then why did you respond to my post?  Because that was clearly what I was talking about.

[Panzerlang]

5 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Then why did you respond to my post?  Because that was clearly what I was talking about.

 

Because you posted a somewhat hyperbolic notion.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Actually, I find the notion that developers should never stick a fork in a piece of software, call it done, and move on to other things, far more hyperbolic.

[BraveSirRobin]

5 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

 

Because you posted a somewhat hyperbolic notion.

 

No,  I really didn’t.  People are carrying on about how they’re not buying FC because of what happened with RoF.  RoF was/is a fantastic game.  It wasn’t abandoned In any way that is different from any other game in the history of computer games.  If you’re talking about anything other than that, then you’re talking to the wrong person.

[Panzerlang]

Just now, BraveSirRobin said:

 

No,  I really didn’t.  People are carrying on about how they’re not buying FC because of what happened with RoF.  RoF was/is a fantastic game.  It wasn’t abandoned In any way that is different from any other game in the history of computer games.  If you’re talking about anything other than that, then you’re talking to the wrong person.

You presented a pretty binary choice or otherwise implied anyone who had the *opinion* that RoF had been "abandoned" should probably "never buy software of any kind. Ever". It's obviously not an 'either/an' choice, what you suggest isn't even remotely close to reality. RoF was in no way a typical example of software development and marketing, which is what I pointed out before you got me confused with some other guy.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

8 minutes ago, Uffz-Prien said:

RoF was in no way a typical example of software development and marketing, which is what I pointed out 

 

 

Ok, then you were in your own conversation, because I was only talking about whether it was abandoned.  It wasn't.  If you think it was, and use that as an excuse to not buy FC, then stop buying computer games.

[Panzerlang]

2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Ok, then you were in your own conversation, because I was only talking about whether it was abandoned.  It wasn't.  If you think it was, and use that as an excuse to not buy FC, then stop buying computer games.

I don't need an "excuse" to not buy anything. What a peculiar idea! Lol.

Some people (quite a few from what I've read in various places) have the opinion RoF was abandoned. I seriously doubt that's stopped them from buying other games, though it's quite likely it has stopped them buying FC (without it constituting an "excuse", lol).

I, personally, don't have any particular issues with the whole thing. Seventy bucks, big deal...I would have preferred a RoF VR module and $70 for that would have been far better value but hey ho, 1C calculated greater sales from a total re-issue to standard PC'ers than upgrading VR'ers I guess.

Fingers crossed they can knock out the FC planes quicker than the RoF ones.

[yaan98]

I got the impression from Jason's interview the premise of "if we get enough sales and or support then we can move forward"

 It's common in the software/hardware industry but it's terrible and a reality. Imagine asking a home builder to build you a house, then he walks away before it's done. "Sorry, ran out of money".  A half built home is what you're left with. Lack of foresight. Instead of "I'm going to finish this project until it's a complete usable ..... ( home, Game, etc.) because I always give it my all to finish what I had started and not come out with half baked stuff"

[Panzerlang]

I had my money's worth out of RoF, in spades. I've no doubt FC and BP will be the same. I've just spent a night out at a cinema's worth in the Dora, tooling around in the rain (and shooting down a bunch of A20s at 4000m). Every time I remind myself "This is exactly how it looked to the real guys" I'm mentally wobbled (VR). Lol.

[pilotpierre]

11 hours ago, Uffz-Prien said:

I had my money's worth out of RoF, in spades. I've no doubt FC and BP will be the same. I've just spent a night out at a cinema's worth in the Dora, tooling around in the rain (and shooting down a bunch of A20s at 4000m). Every time I remind myself "This is exactly how it looked to the real guys" I'm mentally wobbled (VR). Lol.

 

Absoluely agree. I got my money’s worth in all the original IL-2 series, RoF and what has been delivered so far with the latest version.

 

If the dollars (or perhaps even cents) per hour could be determined (in my case) it would work out to the cheapest entertainment one could hope for.

[SYN_Haashashin]

Hi all,

 

Let me get something clear here: Constructive criticism is more than welcome, always have been.

 

That said, if you think another member is been excesively rude just report it. Wont ever understand those that answers those posts without even report them and then complain about how they are treated in the forums. If you report it we take a look and act no matter whom is the offender.

 

All your personal things from RoF should stay there. Also remember that off-topic posts are not allowed in certain circunstances.

 

That says here are some of the rules I wont hesitate in use (and could have applied in this topic):

 

7. Comments containing profanity, personal insults, accusations of cheating, excessive rudeness, vulgarity, drug propaganda, political and religious discussion and propaganda, all manifestations of Nazism and racist statements, calls to overthrow governments by force, inciting ethnic hatred, humiliation of persons of a particular gender, sexual orientation or religion are not allowed and will result in a ban.

 

15. Posting messages that are not relevant to the topic of discussion (off topic) except as specifically allowed in a section is prohibited.

 

23. The forum rules embody the will of 1C-777 Ltd., but may be enforced at the discretion of the moderators or other forum administrators and punishment may be softer or more serious than listed in the forum rules.

 

Haash

 

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

IMHO, I wouldn't read too far (or too negatively) into Jason's comments about if there is a Vol 2, etc. My impression is that Jason and team are always very careful when taking about the future. They are willing to talk about it a little bit but I don't think they want to overpromise anything. If Vol 1 does well then Vol 2 becomes a possibility. That's always been the case and I'm remaining firmly optimistic.

 

I wasn't around for the heyday of Rise of Flight's popularity (I was still playing IL-2: 1946) so I may be seeing this a bit differently but I get nothing but good vibes from Vol 1. The lack of a true campaign/career option from the start I think will be partially solved by things like Pat Wilson's PWCG and I suspect the community will at least partially fill that. The multiplayer scene too is looking pretty good and we have groups like Jasta 5, Hotlead, and GCF and many others (sorry for not shouting out everyone) doing great stuff there. These sims definitely need the content and the platform to succeed but if we want to see them do that then the community needs to as well - which I think many absolutely are.

 

Here's to many more volumes of Flying Circus! ?

[BMA_Hellbender]

17 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

IMHO, I wouldn't read too far (or too negatively) into Jason's comments about if there is a Vol 2, etc.

 

I'm wondering if they're considering releasing a few more 1918 planes such as the Pflaz D.XII, Fokker D.VIII, Nieuport 28 and Hanriot HD.1 as collector planes before doing a proper Volume 2 (with earlier planes and a new map, I assume).