A cat amongst the pigeons

[CB77Don246]

I expect I will upset some here and others I don't know well I do think Great Battles is one hell of a good sim BUT -

 

Let me start by giving you my setting, please understand I like to have fun I am not into total realisum we are talking WW2 planes only  here are my settings the only boxs I have ticked are-

1 NO ENG STALL

2 WARMED UP ENG

3 THROTTLE AUTO LIMIT

4 ENG AUTO CONTROL

5 RADIATOR ASSIST

 

So the issues I have are I find the Russian planes fly much easy than the German planes for me all the 190s inc the new 190D and some of the later 109s can be pigs unlike the Yak's, Mig, and the LA5's 

The German planes stall and are all over the place not a good platform the shoot from as for me the opposite for the Russian planes. Take off in the new 190D is a not easy were I have no problems with the Russian planes.

Is this because it's a Russian sim (only joking)

 

It has got to the stage were I do not choose most German planes any way my main interest is WW1 and any of them planes are easy for me.

 

What are your thoughts.

 

[Thad]

Of course you can play and fly any craft you desire at any settings.

[PatrickAWlson]

I'm tempted to say that I think this is a troll, but I'll try some serious answers anyway.  

• The game offers automated engine control ... and this is bad why?  It is all optional and a great help to new players.
• You don't have to use the help if you don't want to.  Most people who fly regularly do not.  Servers can demand full real so these aids are often not usable online.  If the aids are not available then Russian planes really are harder to fly.
• Same with hud and icons and maps and aiming help ... all optional.  And all very good to help new players practice.  Or to help players who do not want to deal with engine management enjoy the game the way that they want to.
• If you are falling out of the sky in a 109 or the Dora then you really need to practice.  They are not difficult planes to fly.   The 190 A will spin but it did in real life too.

I fly mostly German and almost all single player.  I choose to use icons because I'm over 50 and can't see the planes without them.  I use navigational aids as well because all of the forests and rivers look the same to me.  My choices - it's how I have fun.  Maybe the next guy doesn't use any of those aids.  Or he uses even more.  Why should it bother me?

 

To some extent the Russian planes probably are easier to fly, especially with engine management disabled.  As has been consistently noted, those who know how to use the German planes generally do quite well in them.

 

[56RAF_Roblex]

The difference between the German & Russian planes is that most of the German aircraft have engines with lots of automation so the pilot can just point & shoot.  The Russian aircraft need you to keep watching the radiator settings, the RPM & the throttle to stop it blowing up on you which can make combat harder.    The US aircraft are even harder; it is incredibly easy to blow the engine on the P39 or P40.   I mostly fly Red because I find the Axis aircraft too easy to fly.   You have told the game to automate all the aircraft on both sides so it hard for us to comment on the Red aircraft being too easy.      It is a bit like going on a FPS forum and saying 'Why  is the rifle so much harder to kill people with than the shotgun when I have ticked the box to give them both unlimited range and ammo and instant reloads?'  ?

Edited March 19, 2019 by 56RAF_Roblex

[EAF19_Marsh]

3 - 5 cancel many of the issues with Russian aircraft, allowing you to enjoy their tendency towards light handling. In general, the German aircraft are faster and manouvre better at higher speed, which requires practice. But with practice they are deadly.

 

Against the AI, your settings tend to make for a relatively easy time not least because the AI still has difficulty fighting in the vertical that would better suit German aircraft.

 

Turn off all aids, set opposition to the hardest level and this might be more intereting.

[CrazyDuck]

59 minutes ago, CB77Don246 said:

It has got to the stage were I do not choose most German planes any way my main interest is WW1 and any of them planes are easy for me.

What are your thoughts.

 

Go online (there's many servers with relaxed settings to match your preference) and fly one of these "super" Russian aircraft against the "horrible" German ones. Then come back and report. ?

[Voyager]

The Russian planes are generally harder to stall and get into trouble with.

 

The German and American planes give you enough control authority to kill yourself with. They also tend have higher potential performance and capabilities. The P-47, for example, will never dog fight like a Yak-1B, not will it move mud like an IL-2, but four P-47's will move more mud and kill more bogeys than two Yak-1B's and two Il-2's.

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, Voyager said:

 not will it move mud like an IL-2, but four P-47's will move more mud and kill more bogeys than two Yak-1B's and two Il-2's.

 

Might want to look into that one.

[blitze]

The 190 is a dog at low altitude.  It requires speed and it's main success was in the West where it excelled up high with high speed passes on Allied aircraft.  The later variants being excellent anti bomber aircraft.  In the East - they didn't do well for a good reason, at low alt - you negate it's main advantage.  The 109 on the other hand was formidable in the East.  You could fly it fast in the vertical or you could stall fight it.  You know that if you see a flight of Yaks - you will have a chance to come out of it alive.  In the 190 - get out of there unless you have friends around to help and don't turn fight it.

 

The VVS planes - learn to use them un aided - they are fun, a little more of a handful with the Spit 5 (learn the radiator and don't fly it full boost for too long but that is just a throttle setting) and La 5 being relatively easy (balls to the wall and just modify cowl flaps when heat requires), moderate easy P40 and P39 (once you get the hang of the engine, they are pretty straight forward to deal with) and more difficult - the Yaks (where you have to watch your temp gauge and not run them hard for long periods of time as they tend to cook.

 

I am having fun in 2 Stalingrad Careers 1 with a 109 f4 and the other with a La 5.  I am in a state of  depression with my Kuban career which is a 190 A5.  Last mission was a railway junction mission and my flight leader didn't use the dual layer cloud cover to our advantage leading the flight to get bounced by 2 flights of Yak 7's 1 from above and the other from below.  Only I stayed on target and knocked out the train, then went to aid my flight but saw it getting decimated so I headed back into the clouds.  1 flight of Yaks was escorting Il2's and with their attention being turned by my former flight colleges, I took out 1 of their Il2's.  That was before the noticed me and regrouped before I could line up another Il2.  Then it was a game of cat and mouse in the cloud layers.  My wing shot up a little from the Il2 43 and the Yaks toying with me all the way home.  Managed to land to learn of my flight of 4, I was the only one who made it with 2 dead and 1 captured.  I was the only one who did anything in that mission, at least the other flight after me did their job.

 

Pity we can free flight and take fighter A5 190 variants high and take out Yaks from upon high.

[Voyager]

35 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Might want to look into that one.

AI or coordinated unit? 

 

AI don't seem to work well together, but a coordinated squadron of four has 5 tons of bombs, 24 rockets and sixteen heavy machine guns with two minutes of fire between them. That's about 4x the payload that the Yak/Il-2 pair can deliver. 

 

Further, I can see an element of two 109s tangeling with a pair of Yak-1b's and Il-2's with confidence. I'm having a harder time seeing a pair of 109s, even K-4s, wanting to stick around an organized group of four Thunderbolts. 

 

But, and this is the big but, that's going to require a coordinated flight. If everyone's just doing their own thing, and/or doesn't know the airplane, it's going to be ugly. And, all the pilots have to understand both roles and be effective in them. If you've just got four new pilots, I'll agree, a Yak/Il-2 pair would get better results.

 

That just goes back to my original point: the Russian fighters have a lower skill floor; a lower barrier to entry, but they also have lower potential capability too. 

[CB77Don246]

Thank you guys or gals for your reply's , No I am not a Troll just asking and I am in my mid to late 70's . 

 

one question I did not make was the big problem  takeing off in say the new 190D and many others most of the German planes for me seem to pull to the left more than others Ok I know about torque of a inline engine.

 

Thanks again I will try the full real when FC gets finished as when I fly in ROF I do fly full real no aids, I just find it to much to remember all the settings for WW2 aircraft WW1 planes do not have the complexity like WW2.

 

Please look at my first post and what should I turn off first to try 1 to 5 just one at a time. 

[-SF-Disarray]

On the 190's you have a free casting tail wheel, or whatever the actual technical name is, so it is going to get away from you if you don't stay on top of it. You can lock it by pulling the stick all the way back and this will mitigate a lot of the problem but you will still have to counter steer. Once the plane gets up to about 150 kph you will want to let off the stick. At that speed the tail will soon start to lift and the plane will be moving fast enough that the rudder and vertical stabilizer will have enough authority to keep the plane going in the right direction. In the case of 109's you just have to balance torque against the rudder. It is the down side to having a powerful engine. You can lessen the effect of the torque by increasing throttle slowly, that way the plane will start rolling down the strip picking up speed and allow the rudder and stab to bite. Though this is less of an option if you have a short take off run available to you.

[crigby46]

The swing to the left you already know is a torque reaction, but the reason they seem to pull harder is twofold, at least with the fighters;

 

   They're light - less weight with the same torque makes for a sharper reaction; just like a lighter rifle with the same round kicks more.

 

   They're small - Particularly the 190 is rather a short little aeroplane; at low speeds it'll struggle a little more with yaw stability just because the airflow has a shorter lever to push against.

 

What does help tremendously with the 190s in particular is using the tailwheel lock, pull the stick all the way back until you're at 100kph or higher, and then relax the backpressure so you rotate with only a little more backpressure than true neutral stick. The 109 does tend to swing more even with the tailwheel lock, but once you're used to that, it'll just go where you point it. 

 

[MasserME262]

German planes ARE better. That you can take its advantages or not, is another whole story.

Me, for example, can't; and that's why almost everyone can shot me down even if Im in a 190 A5 and my enemy in a Rata.

[JonRedcorn]

46 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

German planes ARE better. That you can take its advantages or not, is another whole story.

Me, for example, can't; and that's why almost everyone can shot me down even if Im in a 190 A5 and my enemy in a Rata.

Being good in the german planes in my opinion is definitely harder it's easier for somebody to dogfight in a russian plane. All in my opinion, I always seem to do better in allied planes.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

1 minute ago, JonRedcorn said:

Being good in the german planes in my opinion is definitely harder it's easier for somebody to dogfight in a russian plane. All in my opinion, I always seem to do better in allied planes.

 

I disagree,,,,, maybe you got gud and not having a handicap when you fly blue is messing with your head?

Edited March 20, 2019 by 7./JG26_Smokejumper

[danielprates]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

If you are falling out of the sky in a 109 or the Dora then you really need to practice.  They are not difficult planes to fly.   The 190 A will spin but it did in real life too

 The problem in this case is that faulty, what's-it's-name component that sits behind the stick! You know, just ahead of the seat!

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

I think it really depends on fighting style.  If you are thinking in terms of stringing together multiple near-blackout turns in a fight, then Russian is the way to go.  If you're thinking about staying fast and letting the pure speed of airflow stabilize the plane while swooping in, taking a snap shot at the enemy, then zooming back up, German is the way to go.   Granted the term "dogfight" is generally assigned to the first style of fighting.  It certainly can be quite difficult to keep up a turning fight while flying German planes but, trying to take Russian planes into a steep vertical fight almost always results in suicide.

 

As far as engine management goes, the old pilot's axiom that "Eventually all the levers (throttle, rpm, prop pitch, etc.) go full forward in a dogfight.", then the Russian planes are less likely to blow the motor - as long as you watch the heat and try to end the fight quickly so you can reset to cruising and 'rest' the engine.  That said, with the drawbacks of Russian fighters and the surely less powerful/efficient engines (for most), the time you have to get the job done is significantly shorter than the German fighters.

[CUJO_1970]

3 hours ago, blitze said:

The 190 is a dog at low altitude.  It requires speed and it's main success was in the West where it excelled up high with high speed passes on Allied aircraft.  The later variants being excellent anti bomber aircraft.  In the East - they didn't do well for a good reason, at low alt - you negate it's main advantage. 

 

Hmmm not even sure where to start with this - I'll quote a wise man who once said about whatever you've been reading: "close this book and never open it again".

 

The FW-190 scored far out of proportion to it's numbers on the Eastern Front (never more than ~200 or so across the entire front at one time), shooting appalling numbers of Russian aircraft down - and the vast majority of kills were at very low altitude. Only the insatiable demand for FW-190 on the Western Front prevented more 190s to be deployed to the east. German aces flying 190s racked up massive kill counts against every Russian mark.

 

The myth that the 190 didn't do well on the Eastern Front is just that - a myth.

 

 

[blitze]

10 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

Hmmm not even sure where to start with this - I'll quote a wise man who once said about whatever you've been reading: "close this book and never open it again".

 

The FW-190 scored far out of proportion to it's numbers on the Eastern Front (never more than ~200 or so across the entire front at one time), shooting appalling numbers of Russian aircraft down - and the vast majority of kills were at very low altitude. Only the insatiable demand for FW-190 on the Western Front prevented more 190s to be deployed to the east. German aces flying 190s racked up massive kill counts against every Russian mark.

 

The myth that the 190 didn't do well on the Eastern Front is just that - a myth.

 

 

Say it isn't so.  ?

 

My career squad must not contain any of those aces as it gets its ass handed to it every time we come up against Yaks.  Maybe I need to research some more on tactics and the 190 down low but 1 can not make up for the rest of the flight when dealing with 2 to 3 flights of VVS at the same time as trying to fulfill a ground attack role of which the rest of the flight abandons as soon as the VVS is spotted.  We also lack any escort unlike the numerous times as a 109 pilot in previous Kuban Careers I have had to babysit 190 ground pounders.

 

Let see - 190:

Poor climber

Poor sustain turner

Mostly used on the Eastern Front as a Ground Attacker

 

So, aside from the A3 late over Stalingrad - How well did the 190 do against VVS fighters from 43 onwards?

Sure it was formidable against Spits over the Chanel with hit and run tactics and heavy armament but the Germans were keeping the Brits pinned down with a couple squadrons until the Americans decided to rock up.  For some strange reason, some people think Soviet birds were pieces of crap - they weren't.

[Art-J]

One cannot use AI squad members as an Fw-190-value-indication however, as in this game they're idiots unable to utilize "energy" fighters to their full potiential. Anyone trying to play offline campaign in these is destined to end up being more or less frustrated, sooner or later. 

 

Bad luck, I guess it must be difficult to program good AI for vertical and energy style combat. Though I'm still puzzled why veteran-level AI in 1992 "Aces of the Pacific" could actually do it well (AI in that game tought me what boom and zoom was), while none of the later flight sims pulled it off...

[Gambit21]

It's starting to happen with BoX AI.

Watch an AI 190 attack a U2.

[EAF19_Marsh]

50 minutes ago, blitze said:

Mostly used on the Eastern Front as a Ground Attacker

 

JG51 and 54 used extensively in the fighter role and inflicted heavy casulaties 1942 onwards with their 190s. North face of Kursk salient in July ‘43 was particularly bloody in terms of claims. JG54 were highly successful with their 190s and spent most of the war in the East.

[blitze]

I would assume then they were doing free hunts and using alt to their advantage.  Also the A5 in fighter setup is a little less hindered compared to the strike version.  Probably the better variant to take out on mission given the air opposition one is most likely to encounter.

 

Irony with AI in career is one sees the VVS AI doing much better energy tactics in their La's and Yaks  - almost mocking the player.  The Jabo 190's also were not quite the same as their fighter variants and most of what we do in career at least in the A5 is Jabo.  I found the AI in the A3's in Stalingrad to be more competent.  On the flip side, 190 A5's chew up Il2's pretty nicely.  Slide in behind an Il2 at close range and let them have it, just watch out for debris and ones prop.

 

The only highlight to the Kuban 190 career.

[Mac_Messer]

Well, the Yak is a great aircraft. I like to view it as Soviet Spitfire and my combat attitude towards both is very similar.  LaGGs, La5s and P39s don`t cause me nearly as much iritation.

 

Problematic thing gameplay wise is that compared to FW190 A4/A5, the 109F4/G2 has a performance margin over Soviet planes that let it use 151/20 gunpods as long as the fuel load is sub 80%. With that, I have similar firepower and don`t have to deny maneuvering combat when I want to since both acceleration and climb is my initiative.

 

That said, I`d really like Kuban carreer to let me use the FW190A5 solely as a fighter, don`t care if it`s historically accurate. It is a very different plane from the 109 so it makes sence to switch back and forth between them to make things more interesting.

 

For those frustrated with friendly AI I`d recommend following your flight in visual distance but much higher (~1000m) so you can enter the combat area with speeds from 450 to 550 and hold it as such throughout the engagement.

 

The way I see it, the German AIs are really stupid most of the time and pretty clever only some of the time.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Mac_Messer

[PatrickAWlson]

25 minutes ago, Mac_Messer said:

 

The way I see it, the German AIs are really stupid most of the time and pretty clever only some of the time.

 

It's not German vs Russian as much as knowing how to turn vs understanding energy fighting. Seen that in every flight sim that I have played all the way back to the original red baron.  It's getting better but it is still true that the AI is much more comfortable in a turn fighter.

 

I expect the Ai to have a tough time with the American planes as well.

[Mac_Messer]

That`s alright, but not the whole picture.

 

As a seasoned offliner I understand if AI does not know all ins and outs of T&B vs B&Z type of engagements. The AI actually does some other stupid things like approaching enemy bombers up to 100m distance, waiting 3-5s without firing a single shot, and then slowly disengaging in a non evasive manner, often falling into another bombers` firing cone.  Such instances of "cannot compute" moments are not the only ones.

[Voidhunger]

1 hour ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

It's not German vs Russian as much as knowing how to turn vs understanding energy fighting. Seen that in every flight sim that I have played all the way back to the original red baron.  It's getting better but it is still true that the AI is much more comfortable in a turn fighter.

 

I expect the Ai to have a tough time with the American planes as well.

But i was quite surprised how good is AI in my flight with Fw190d against Spits. I thought that they will be butchered like A8 but they shot some Spits down. They even stole some kills from me

Edited March 21, 2019 by Voidhunger

[EAF19_Marsh]

2 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

That said, I`d really like Kuban carreer to let me use the FW190A5 solely as a fighter, don`t care if it`s historically accurate. It is a very different plane from the 109 so it makes sence to switch back and forth between them to make things more interesting.

 

 

Me too. Obviously would be semi-fictional, but there are no A-5 fighter maps.

[blitze]

3 hours ago, PatrickAWlson said:

 

It's not German vs Russian as much as knowing how to turn vs understanding energy fighting. Seen that in every flight sim that I have played all the way back to the original red baron.  It's getting better but it is still true that the AI is much more comfortable in a turn fighter.

 

I expect the Ai to have a tough time with the American planes as well.

The weird thing I find with AI is they know how to torment you and the Yaks play in the vertical, coming in behind you from above, shooting, then zooming past you and up to then come round and do it again.  When you are in a 190 A5 Jabo, and banging the rudder as you hear gun fire behind you to side slip it, your energy dies.  IF you are lucky, an AI Yak driver will get cocky and present you with a good snap shot opportunity which can be lethal if the 190 guns come to bare on the Yak.

 

In the ground pounding role, I have been tasked to do some airfield hits and they are well guarded with AA.  It doesn't take much to shred your wing and then it is either goodbye or a struggle to get back home.  Sort of Depressing.  I much prefer the Il2 for Ground Attack duties but even that can be daunting when you are up against a heavily protected target with lots of AA.  I'm more afraid of AA than I am of fighter cover.?

[LukeFF]

5 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

That said, I`d really like Kuban carreer to let me use the FW190A5 solely as a fighter, don`t care if it`s historically accurate.

 

Start a career as the commander and only fly air-to-air missions. Problem solved. 

 

5 hours ago, Mac_Messer said:

The way I see it, the German AIs are really stupid most of the time and pretty clever only some of the time.

 

There is no 'German AI.' All fighters in the game use the same AI programming. 

Edited March 21, 2019 by LukeFF

[Mac_Messer]

Please be more specific. How do I change that after doing 43 missions in JG52?