(Suggestion) Jams Clear Too Fast

[open_sketchbook]

So, hi! I'm a huge fan of this game and of early aviation in general, and I have a sorta... sorta complaint, sorta suggestion?

 

So, right now, gun jams are even less of an issue on the existing aircraft than they are in Rise of Flight. Not because they don't jam enough (though sometimes it could get dire back in the day) but because they clear far, far too fast!

 

To be clear: No, it doesn't take that much time to charge your guns in ideal conditions. However, flying your plane, especially in a tough maneuver, is not ideal conditions! The action is very physical and can take a while in slippery mittens, and not all jams were created equal, especially considering the circumstances. Between low-quality ammunition, equally low quality lubrication, and rapidly changing temperatures from altitude and firing, guns could gum up pretty considerably and take minutes to clear sometimes, if they could be cleared at all!

 

Obviously that wouldn't be much fun, but I think the way it is handled right now isn't great either. It's too smooth and fails to communicate how precarious and rickety a situation pilots faced in the era.

 

Reverting it to the way it was in Rise of Flight might be nice (where the guns clear slower and one at a time), but I have a suggestion that is a little more complex but might be more satisfying. Essentially, making the action dynamic.

 

For one, merely charging your guns while going into action (common to ensure good feeding) should be very quick, as quick as it is now. Clearing a jam should take quite a bit longer, with some real effort visualized in it. Clu-clunk!

 

Secondly, you should only be able to clear one gun at a time unless your flight stick is held in a fairly neutral position for a short time. Essentially, if you want to clear both guns at once, you need both hands, and you're probably not making a hard turn with your knees!

 

(Not safely, anyway)

 

It might be best to make actual jam clearing one gun at a time in either case, but it's faster if you have both hands. Being able to brace yourself with one hand and use the other would be faster than reaching around the edge of the cockpit to use one hand. Furthermore, making jam-clearing just not possible if you're making a very hard sustained maneuver, because you simply need both hands for a lot of those. (Making a hard turn should just cancel the charge)

 

Anyway I realize this is deeply nitpicky, but this kind of manual awkwardness (as opposed to the hydraulically-powered systems of the next war) is what makes early air combat what it is! I've read so many combat reports that went something like "I parked my SPAD S.VII behind the enemy and pulled the trigger, the vickers jammed after the first shot, and the Albatros flew away while I cleared it." and I want that sense of desperation, instead of just having jams be this weird momentary annoyance that is overcome instantly with the click of a button. I should have to choose between making a hard turn or clearing my gun!

[SP1969]

A well reasoned and articulate argument.

 

I'd concur completely.

 

Would also be hilarious to watch someone do this in VR.

Edited February 27, 2019 by SP1969

[DD_Arthur]

Gun jams are not modelled in either RoF or Flying Circus.  

 

What is modelled is the action of cocking the guns.  Thats different.

[JGr2/J5_Hotlead]

Like Arthur said, jams aren’t modeled; misfires are. With misfires, it’s a simple matter of ejecting the unfired shell, if I understand correctly.

 

That being said, it would definitely be cool to have jams modeled! What if we had to hold down a key combination to clear a jam, while an animation of a gloved hand with a hammer (very similar to the already-existing animation of the hand holding the flare gun) tried to knock out the jam? The amount of time you had to hold the key down could be randomized. Some jams would happily be cleared almost instantly; others...well, you might be banging away for a while. 

[LukeFF]

I'd like to see an option for jams as well, but, like with misfires, it'd need to be a difficulty option. 

3 hours ago, JG1_Hotlead_J10 said:

With misfires, it’s a simple matter of ejecting the unfired shell, if I understand correctly.

 

That's right. Misfires generally fall into one of three categories:

 

-Duds: round fails to fire

-Hangfire: round fires, but with a delay, usually because of defects in the gunpowder

-Squib load: round fires but fails to exit the barrel, again usually due to defective gunpowder

 

Of these 3, only duds are modeled in ROF and FC. 

[open_sketchbook]

5 hours ago, DD_Arthur said:

Gun jams are not modelled in either RoF or Flying Circus.  

 

What is modelled is the action of cocking the guns.  Thats different.

 

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

I'd like to see an option for jams as well, but, like with misfires, it'd need to be a difficulty option. 

 

That's right. Misfires generally fall into one of three categories:

 

-Duds: round fails to fire

-Hangfire: round fires, but with a delay, usually because of defects in the gunpowder

-Squib load: round fires but fails to exit the barrel, again usually due to defective gunpowder

 

Of these 3, only duds are modeled in ROF and FC. 

Most common jams can also be cleared by "cocking" the gun. Generally speaking most problems were either than the next round didn't feed into the gun, or that the casing was not properly extracted, both caused by shoddy manufacturing & temperature variation causing components to move outside their tolerances. So you'd end up with extractor claws failing to grip, the action being insufficient to dislodge an expanded casing from the chamber, or rounds twisting, catching, or bending while being fed into the gun. Manually working the mechanism with some oomph could usually solve these problems.

 

The cocking hammers on the sides of the guns aren't just like the hammer of a pistol. It's actually a handle which operates the entire mechanism.

Edited February 27, 2019 by open_sketchbook

[No.23_Triggers]

I think it would be great (but infuriating!!) to have all the types of misfires, as well as jams of varying seriousness, in FC! It seems clear enough that problems with armament was a HUGE part of WW1 air combat, and it would certainly make for a completely different experience! 

 

I feel the same about engine troubles / failures. 

That being said, I'm happy with what we've currently got  

Edited February 27, 2019 by US103_Larner

[DD_Arthur]

52 minutes ago, US103_Larner said:

That being said, I'm happy with what we've currently got  

 

Agreed.   And if they sort out the pole-dancing gunner when they release the FE2b I'll be ecstatic

[SP1969]

8 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

 

Agreed.   And if they sort out the pole-dancing gunner when they release the FE2b I'll be ecstatic

 

 

High over the Western Front near Ypres, Captain Frederick Featherstonehaugh- Smyth Gwatkins of 100 Squadron and his observer, Ms Charmaine Dollybird, of The Circus Tavern, Grays, practice the routine for tonight's daring raid.....

 

( one for the Brits ) 

Edited February 27, 2019 by SP1969

[open_sketchbook]

oh man they actually slowed down the gun charging. Cool!