More info about the Bomb fuces?

[E69_geramos109]

After some drops on the servers where my bombs failed I made a test to see how the fuce affects this. Is sad that on the game there is not complete information about a lot of things and one of that things are the fuce time on the bombs. We can set the delay but each delay timer has a fuce timer or a time when the bomb is armed. That info was on the old IL2 1946 but here we have this lack of info

 

I really dont know this fuce timers but is suposed that a long delay has a short armed time and a short delay as "contact" needs some time for the bomb to be armed or some alttitude to drop it. 

I set the timer on 10 secs expecting very short fuce time so you can drop very close to the target. As you can see the bomb is still failing and it explode only on the last drop on the video where I droped with more distance. 

 

So.. has someone any information or experience with this timers to give us some information about how to drop bombs on close range?

 

[40plus]

I too would like some explicit description of how this is supposed to work.

[Herne]

I always understood that the LW bombs you could set 0 second delay, and blow yourself up dropping it on a tank as you skim the trees, but the bombs used by the VVS had some safety's built in, and required at least a 5 second fuse if you intend to drop below 300 m

Edited February 28, 2019 by =11=Herne

[LukeFF]

German bomb fuses are electrical and thus don't need as much time to arm as mechanical fuses, which is what all the other nations use (at least, as I understand it). 

Edited February 26, 2019 by LukeFF

[Brano]

Soviet bombs had cap over fuse with this tiny funny prop. When bomb was released, this small prop unscrewed the cap protecting detonator. This took some time.

[E69_geramos109]

I just know the arming times from 46 and with long delay that tine was about cets of a secons or 0.something low. So maybe is wright modelled here and bad modelled there no idea but even whit the longest fuce seems that you cant drop that low. If the bomb bounces in the ground seems that is not failing 

[BornToBattle]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the bombs while doing the load out then mission are already disarmed (safety). I assumed the safety was “on” on my first load out in the A-20 and hit the keymapping to turn the safety “off” - when in fact Inwas turning the safety “on”. Released the bombs with fuse set to contact...nothing. Which is what it seems happened in the video here.

 

I’ve tried numerous test runs with the Havoc doing low altitude runs. The bomb delays really do make quite a difference based in seconds.at those low altitudes. For me, running low at 500 and 300 knots a minimum of a 3 second delay worked well enough to get out of the way of a 250lb iron bomb blast radius in time (if memory saves me right. It as 4 and the loudout were the hard points on the wings, 2 each side). This is with a straight line hauling ass egress.

 

Point is, try yourself and just do test runs to see what works. Bomb size (blast radius), aircraft speed and height and type of egress all come into play. I corkscrewed into the ground once while flying too low to the deck in the P-47D and releasing a 500 pounder with fuse we to “contact”. Big mistake. The blast instantly forced the plane to tail over, allowing me to comtemplate what my life had been like all inside of about 2 or 3 seconds before my body was engulfed in twisted metal. Amazing how just an added second or two can make all the difference in the world while down low like that.

[40plus]

On 2/26/2019 at 11:13 AM, Brano said:

Soviet bombs had cap over fuse with this tiny funny prop. When bomb was released, this small prop unscrewed the cap protecting detonator. This took some time.

 

Interesting. Were the caps retained somehow until the bomb was dropped? Otherwise you would expect normal air speed from flight would unscrew them after take off.

[Brano]

Most common way was to have a wire/string attached from bomb rack to the fuse cap. When bomb was released, the wire pulled the lock pin and prop could start to turn and unscrew the fuse cap.

[busdriver]

2 hours ago, Brano said:

Most common way was to have a wire/string attached from bomb rack to the fuse cap. When bomb was released, the wire pulled the lock pin and prop could start to turn and unscrew the fuse cap.

 

Which is just like some of the fuses I worked with. After dropping you would come home with the arming wires still attached to the pylon or triple ejector rack (TER).

 

My critique of fuse/bomb behavior in game is simple. If a Russian bomb can be dropped from naught height (as low as you can fly) with a 5 second delay and function properly, then that fuse should function properly with no delay (contact setting). The delay is a safety feature, not a mechanical restriction per se. Afterall, if the fuse functioned to allow a count of 5 seconds, then surely it had to have counted 0-1-2-3-4.

 

Said another way, if the time of fall from release to impact is sufficient to permit a fuse with a 5 second delay to function, then that time of fall should work for all fuse delays (even no delay, i.e contact).

 

And yet another way to look at it. If the time of fall is insufficient for a zero delay detonation, then there is no way a longer delay should work (given the same release altitude and time of fall).

 

IMO Russian bombs as modelled do not penalize a player for dropping from too low of an altitude. Yes the bombs will be duds (will not detonate) but the player is in ZERO danger of being a "frag mort." On the other hand, a player flying Axis can definitely become a "frag mot" for dropping too low. I have the T-shirt to prove that or at least the screenshots.

[Brano]

The cap with prop was a safety measure to prevent initialisation of fuse by accidental drop or when manipulating with bomb on the ground. Fuse delay is a function that only works after initialisation of the fuse itself. You could have the delay set to zero, but unscrewing the fuse cap by the push of air on prop took time. Up to 5sec depending on the type (there were many).

[busdriver]

33 minutes ago, Brano said:

The cap with prop was a safety measure to prevent initialisation of fuse by accidental drop or when manipulating with bomb on the ground. Fuse delay is a function that only works after initialisation of the fuse itself. You could have the delay set to zero, but unscrewing the fuse cap by the push of air on prop took time. Up to 5sec depending on the type (there were many).

 

We agree. And my point being if a player can drop a bomb at some altitude where a 5 second delay works, then it stands to reason that same altitude is sufficient for a zero delay (contact) timer to work. To use your "initialization" term, if fuse initialization occured to permit a 5 second delay, then surely it had enough time to initialize for zero delay.

 

 

[=FEW=fernando11]

I'm sure there is a old thread with the info.

But by memory we have 2 diferent things, time for the bomb to arm, and delay of detonation.

On longer delay, the arming is faster, and vice versa.

The LW bombs arm themselves fairly quick. But even at 5 second delay, ("instant" arming of the bomb) you can drop low enough, maybe 20m or less so the bomb wont go off.

[busdriver]

18 minutes ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

I'm sure there is a old thread with the info.

But by memory we have 2 diferent things, time for the bomb to arm, and delay of detonation.

On longer delay, the arming is faster, and vice versa.

The LW bombs arm themselves fairly quick. But even at 5 second delay, ("instant" arming of the bomb) you can drop low enough, maybe 20m or less so the bomb wont go off.

 

Just to be pedantic and use more precise terminology (sorry it's what I did professionally...drop bombs). More correctly it is the fuze that arms, not the bomb. And in that regard you are correct.  Post WWII western air arms talk about Time of Fall (TOF) to achieve "fuse arm," in WWII parlance the USAAF talked about air distance travelled to allow the arming vanes (Brano's prop) to achieve a preset number of revolutions necessary to arm the bomb. TOF and air distance travelled are effectively the same thing, get the vanes to spin enough times to "fuse arm." Don't get the required air distance travelled (or TOF) the vanes don't get their required revolutions...the fuse doesn't arm. 

 

And as you posit, the delay timer is a second mechanism/function.  

 

However I disagree with your assertion that arming is faster for a long delay and somehow longer for a short or no delay. Arming is arming...period, fullstop. The fuse arms after travelling x number of meters through the air or alternatively having a TOF of at least y seconds (that would equal x meters travelled). The delay timer has no effect on the number of revolutions the arming vanes have made. 

[=FEW=fernando11]

My mistake of not clarifying. LW used diferent fuses for diferent aplications, dont really know the details. I know they were electric, and I think they had a mechanical back up.

What I meant to say is, IF you Select 5 seconds or more on the setup menu,the game gives you a divebomb/low level atack fuse, wich itself arms very fast, but is delayed as to not kill yourself.

If you select no delay/contact delay, the game gives you a fuse normaly for high alt level bombing, the arming of the fuse takes a long time, but the bomb goes off instantly when it hits the ground.

 

So yes. The delay should not change the time it takes for the fuse to arm. But I belive when selecting the delay, the game auto selects diferent fuses.

 

Also I found this image on a old post from 2015, about this same topic, on the first and ninth colum you can see that 14s and 5s delay with the right fuse gives you the fastest arming. Needing between 10 and 20 meters of altitude.

Wich is more than the altitude/TOF shown by the OP of this thread, hence why the bombs dont go off.

 

A good test would be to Select contact fuses on LW bombs, and drop them from less than 100mts, they sould not go off.

Edited March 1, 2019 by =FEW=fernando11

[40plus]

11 hours ago, =FEW=fernando11 said:

 

Wow!

 

Well there it is in clear black and white. This is exactly what I was hoping to learn.

 

Thank you!!

[69th_chuter]

In the Pacific armorers bombing up strafers would get around the fuse arming delay by manually screwing in the fuse (turning the "little prop") an appropriate amount* before feeding through the safety wire. 

 

*For instance, if you wanted a 2 1/5 second arming delay and had a five second delay fuse you'd screw it in halfway.  I know, rocket science, right?  lol