Question - Spitfire IXE

[Kurfurst]

The BOBP is still in development, the P-51, Tempest aren't even in yet but are steadily coming, and will certainly improve things considerably for the allies... and  we still wait for the release of the actual finished product.

 

Don't you think its a bit early to call for adding more superprops, when the ones that are promised aren't even finished yet..?

[blitze]

RPM in Spit easy to deal with, set for cruise or set for combat.  Not as braindead as the German systems but still pretty easy to deal with.

 

Manual control of the Radiators can be helpful to over ride for 2 instances - 1 to fully close to gain speed on an opponent in a fight but that has to be carefully monitored with the temp gauge so you don't blow your engine and 2 landing, where usually you would open them up.

 

Boost on the Spit = Opened up throttle.

 

Would love to see a XIV Spit ? in Razorback guise.

[CountZero]

24 minutes ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

The BOBP is still in development, the P-51, Tempest aren't even in yet but are steadily coming, and will certainly improve things considerably for the allies... and  we still wait for the release of the actual finished product.

 

Don't you think its a bit early to call for adding more superprops, when the ones that are promised aren't even finished yet..?

What i could see how they didnt even add 150 octan fuel for Allied airplanes that had them from start, i think its best to start early

And P-51 with USAF engine menagment in this game and who knows what limitations will not help mutch vs 1.98K4s and 262s and D9s

Tempest also depending on  its power settings will, but its last airplane well get, so seaing that they didnt even know importance of Spitifire Mk XIV for this planset and not even including 150 octan on Spitfire 9 shows me its better to ask for what should be in game before its to late and they decide that First and only collectors airplane for BoBp should be Typhoon or even razerback P-51 or P-47, im sure axis would love that

[MiloMorai]

1 hour ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

 

Don't you think its a bit early to call for adding more superprops, when the ones that are promised aren't even finished yet..?

 

What the few and far between superprop 1.98ata K-4 is not finished?

[CIA_Yankee_]

5 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

Yak-1b come to game befoer we even know about Kuban, when he had 109g2 and A3 to fight.

 

 La5FN was best fighter airplane in game when it was introduced after Kuban.

 

We have K4 and on top 1.98K4, and no XIV , so its nice first choice to add as collectors airplane for 19.98 $  , they can make money on their omision of not adding same top performer on both sides

 

Agreed.

 

Whether or not we agree with "better planes" being added as collectors, that ship has indeed sailed. The Yak-1b, 109 G6, and La-5FN were both the best planes available when released (at least for their faction). This isn't the case anymore since we have BoPB early access, but the fact is that they already established that pattern. 

 

And, to be honest, given the niche nature of the market, and the fact that the devs aren't exactly swimming in cash, I don't mind them putting out the Good Stuff as collectors (Spit XIV and B-25, for example). This isn't a question of a money grubbing megacorp trying to nickel and dime us, it's a niche developer doing what they must to get the money they need to stay in business. And besides, I'd rather have both the Spit IX AND the Spit XIV than just one or the other (this way BoBP scenarios will be able to cover a wider timeline. I could see fall '44 maps with Spit IXs vs 109 G6s and G14s, and '45 maps  with the K4s and Doras and Spit XIVs in greater abundance, for example).

4 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

The BOBP is still in development, the P-51, Tempest aren't even in yet but are steadily coming, and will certainly improve things considerably for the allies... and  we still wait for the release of the actual finished product.

 

Don't you think its a bit early to call for adding more superprops, when the ones that are promised aren't even finished yet..?

 

Not at all, it's never too early to call for iconic aircraft that were very much in service in the scenarios depicted by the product. Especially when the dev have a clear incentive to bring about desirable collector's aircraft.

 

This is doubly true when the planned planeset already provides one side with their top performing aircraft and not the other. Doras, K4s, and the 262 are the apex of LW fighter development, wereas the only apex fighter (at least within the timeline of the war in europe) the allies are getting is the Tempest. It's very natural for the allies to want to fly more of their own top airplanes. 

 

The Spit XIV is, much like the Dora or the K4, the iconic wartime apex of its airframe, so it makes perfect sense to add it. 

 

I know your frequently expressed concern is that it will outperform the LW aircraft, rendering them "obsolete", but that's mostly spurious. This sim has thrived under scenarios where the LW has consistently had superior fighters (BoM and BoS), and the devs aren't going to suddenly shy away from adding historically appropriate airplanes (and engine boost levels) just because the allies might have a superior fighter for a change.

[EAF19_Marsh]

4 hours ago, MiloMorai said:

 

What the few and far between superprop 1.98ata K-4 is not finished?

 

Can I just say that the 1.98 ata is great fun to fly and looks very nice.

 

But given the benchmark that this sets - highest performing operational version, low in number, a relative minority in terms of overall strength - then this approach should also apply to the other fighters in the game: 1945 versions of the IX, Tempest, P-51 etc. Otherwise we miss out on the enjoyment of classic aircraft at the pinnacle of their performance.

[mumbojumbo]

8 hours ago, VO101Kurfurst said:

Don't you think its a bit early to call for adding more superprops, when the ones that are promised aren't even finished yet..?

 

Early? I've wanted it since the start, irrespective of its opposition. 

 

And what's with 'superprop'? The word has no meaning. 

 

What will the difference be between the spit ix and the stang in terms of engine automation and pilot control? 

[Voyager]

9 hours ago, Tarks91 said:

 

Early? I've wanted it since the start, irrespective of its opposition. 

 

And what's with 'superprop'? The word has no meaning. 

 

What will the difference be between the spit ix and the stang in terms of engine automation and pilot control? 

 

Rule of thumb is anything that can do more than 450mph in level flight and a more than 4,000 fpm climb rate is probably a superprop. Essentially, the props that were still competitive, performance wise when jets became dominant. 

 

Only a handful of propeller driven fighters reached that level of performance, and every one represents the culmination of the development of its line. The Mk. XIV is probably the first fighter to reach that level of performance, in 1944.

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 2/27/2019 at 12:05 AM, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

Full automation + easy airframe to fly = god mode.

At least in skilled hands, or at least against noob players (if I have a spit on my 6, Im dead).

Its a pleasure to fly, for real

On equal or less energy , yes , but the idea with LW planes is to not get into that position. Faster planes control the engagement. and generally the spit is slower then same generation LW fighters.

[mumbojumbo]

2 hours ago, Voyager said:

 

Rule of thumb is anything that can do more than 450mph in level flight and a more than 4,000 fpm climb rate is probably a superprop. Essentially, the props that were still competitive, performance wise when jets became dominant. 

 

Only a handful of propeller driven fighters reached that level of performance, and every one represents the culmination of the development of its line. The Mk. XIV is probably the first fighter to reach that level of performance, in 1944.

 

Again, there is no definition, you're only applying your own. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

46 minutes ago, Tarks91 said:

 

Again, there is no definition, you're only applying your own. 

 

The term did not exist so it is essentially subjective ?

[Soilworker]

17 hours ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

And, to be honest, given the niche nature of the market, and the fact that the devs aren't exactly swimming in cash, I don't mind them putting out the Good Stuff as collectors (Spit XIV and B-25, for example). This isn't a question of a money grubbing megacorp trying to nickel and dime us, it's a niche developer doing what they must to get the money they need to stay in business. And besides, I'd rather have both the Spit IX AND the Spit XIV than just one or the other (this way BoBP scenarios will be able to cover a wider timeline. I could see fall '44 maps with Spit IXs vs 109 G6s and G14s, and '45 maps  with the K4s and Doras and Spit XIVs in greater abundance, for example).

 

+1

 

Also I think the pay to win argument doesn't hold much weight as (as it's been said many times) 90/95% of users are SP. 

 

(Although MP users seem to make up 95% of the comments.) ?

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Soilworker said:

 

+1

 

Also I think the pay to win argument doesn't hold much weight as (as it's been said many times) 90/95% of users are SP. 

 

(Although MP users seem to make up 95% of the comments.) ?

It would be nice to see how many of thouse 95% SP players tryed AI in this game and never come back, no wonder they dont post if they diont play continuasly.

On steam peak is 300-400ppl at same time, and online you have 250-350 at same time, so where are all thouse SP ppl, it seams they buy game and let it sit on shelf ? but as long as devs get money and SP guys keep buying im ok with it as game could not exist with only MP players if there is not some pay by time you play sheam.

Edited March 1, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[Soilworker]

29 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

It would be nice to see how many of thouse 95% SP players tryed AI in this game and never come back, no wonder they dont post if they diont play continuasly.

On steam peak is 300-400ppl at same time, and online you have 250-350 at same time, so where are all thouse SP ppl, it seams they buy game and let it sit on shelf ? but as long as devs get money and SP guys keep buying im ok with it as game could not exist with only MP players if there is not some pay by time you play sheam.

 

I suspect most users don't use BoX on Steam, I don't. 

[CountZero]

7 minutes ago, Soilworker said:

 

I suspect most users don't use BoX on Steam, I don't. 

I hope so as SP guys and its content creators are reason we still can play this game, MP numbers are to small. So collector airplane has to be logical to be included in existing carier or campaigns, be able to take off on existing maps, land and have battles he had in that areas. And like you say for them there is no pay for advantage only pay to play

[Soilworker]

38 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

I hope so as SP guys and its content creators are reason we still can play this game, MP numbers are to small. So collector airplane has to be logical to be included in existing carier or campaigns, be able to take off on existing maps, land and have battles he had in that areas. And like you say for them there is no pay for advantage only pay to play

 

Agreed. 

 

I hope there's enough people like me who just throw money at the sim every time something comes out! ?

 

[JV69badatflyski]

On 2/27/2019 at 9:19 PM, 77.CountZero said:

 

Also Meteor can easy be added in BoBp as it fits historicly, and youll again not have any other battle with small enought area to fit them exept this one, P-80 would fit only late Italy and thats also a streching it.

 

So for BoBp for allieds Spitfire XIV and Meteor fit perfectly as you cant add them in any other battle the way they do things so this is only chance to add them to game and have SP campoaign for them that is historical with take off and landings and targets for them.

Meteor?
Yes please! a nice target for whatever LW fighter and completely surpassed by the 262 in all domains.That was a flying brick...inapt for aerial combat.
But it won't happen as there were more flyable do-335's than meteors on the continent (4 planes in brussels) and also because there were 3 different engines at that timeframe that equipped the meteors. That only is a nightmare for the developpers.
P-80 don't fit none of WWII scenario, those in italy were proto's , much smaller than the production models. Unless you want to go Luft46...then i request a Me-262HGII with Hes-011 or 004D's 

Completely agree about the mk-xiv, even if only 100's were assigned, it had a serious combat record with the 2Taf and should be there.
But still there was much more MK-IX's and that was the logical choice for the developpers.
Maybe after the official release as collector, together with an Ar-234 or an 190 a-9...2200ps in an Anton..

[MiloMorai]

All of 616 moved to Gilze-Rijen in 1 April and then to Nijmegan in 13 April. It was equipped with Derwent I powered F.3s

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 hour ago, JV69badatflyski said:

Yes please! a nice target for whatever LW fighter and completely surpassed by the 262 in all domains.

 

Except, of course, that it was faster than all the Allied piston-engined aircraft and - crucially unlike the 262 - the engines actually worked.

[JV69badatflyski]

44 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

All of 616 moved to Gilze-Rijen in 1 April and then to Nijmegan in 13 April. It was equipped with Derwent I powered F.3s

That was as  the 1st april joke for the squadron :[Sarcasm voice on]  "you will participate in the war with Jet planes, you'll be proud!" [Sarcasm voice off]....[Tiny shy voice on] ...but the action is already in Berlin region at the moment, so you'll do some sightseeing in the neighbour region and drop some weight on third-class targets... [Tiny Shy voice off] ...[Sarcasm voice on] "Because we do not want this ultra advanced technology to fall in german's hands"  [Sarcasm voice off] 

 

8 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

Except, of course, that it was faster than all the Allied piston-engined aircraft and - crucially unlike the 262 - the engines actually worked.

Yeah right.....another Urban-Net-Legend that keep returning from the grave, The walking dead is like a My little poney episode in comparison.
Please read the the whole 33 pages of this 1946 RAE Evaluation : http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/meteor/Meteor-CFE.pdf , they are very interesting of the RAE opinion and quality of the meteor and it's engines...(that have already evolved from their 1945 state...)

[Ehret]

34 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Except, of course, that it was faster than all the Allied piston-engined aircraft and - crucially unlike the 262 - the engines actually worked.

 

Many overlook that positioning (tactics) > marksmanship > performance and there are diminishing return to the latter. The 262s can be (and IRL was in actual engagements) shoot down by well positioned props.

I'm not worried about a jet as such; I'm worried about crap timer which will force me just after 5m to the nominal. Considering range of velocities, altitudes and g-loads 5m is not much, especially when the competition is practically unlimited. IRL Mustangs pilots were stalking 262s - you will not be able to do the same "in the sim". Why?

 

14 minutes ago, JV69badatflyski said:

Yeah right.....another Urban-Net-Legend that keep returning from the grave, The walking dead is like a My little poney episode in comparison.

 

The fact is you could easily damage an early jet engine. In the sim P-47D didn't get (!) turbo failures modes thus it could be that the 262 will not have compressor stalls or other failures modeled. It's not to hard to realize that it will allow to use the plane in ahistoric ways in "a sim" supposed to be historically accurate...

Edited March 1, 2019 by Ehret

[JV69badatflyski]

15 minutes ago, Ehret said:

The fact is you could easily damage an early jet engine. In the sim P-47D didn't get (!) turbo failures modes thus it could be that the 262 will not have compressor stalls or other failures modeled. It's not to hard to realize that it will allow to use the plane in ahistoric ways in "a sim" supposed to be historically accurate...

Fully agree with you, but there are people that imagine you can chop the throttles on the meteor like on a spitfire MK-IXe (to stay on topic  )....
the effects are the same when you move the throttle too fast on both  the 262 and the Meteor  you'll stall or flame the engine. The only difference is IRL in a 004 you had the combustion chamber material and the blocking ognion issues, both related to the materials used and not the design itself. In the meteor , the surge happened (very) much sooner than in the 262, even in level flight (design pb) not like the issue on big fast incidence changes on the 262 ( much smaller design pb than the meteor )

As for the failures, i'd  like to have it, but for all planes, with all their possible and documented failures and not only the schwalbe or the spitfire MK-IXe (to stay on topic again  ).
It would be funny to see the guys with the meteor diving from 5Km and then having the hole canopy and front screen covered with fog ,with zero outside visibilty,  having to wait a minute or 2 for the fog to disperse, but that's not a failure, that's a "feature" ...

[CIA_Yankee_]

31 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

Many overlook that positioning (tactics) > marksmanship > performance and there are diminishing return to the latter. The 262s can be (and IRL was in actual engagements) shoot down by well positioned props.

I'm not worried about a jet as such; I'm worried about crap timer which will force me just after 5m to the nominal. Considering range of velocities, altitudes and g-loads 5m is not much, especially when the competition is practically unlimited. IRL Mustangs pilots were stalking 262s - you will not be able to do the same "in the sim". Why?

 

Not to get into the whole engine issue, I do agree that tactics trump all... but keep in mind that the reason the 262s did not have any real impact was because the allies had complete air superiority over pretty much the entire theatre. This enabled them to use tactics that severely constrained the 262's capabilities. The allies, basically, had the freedom to implement any tactics they wished to counter the 262, and the LW had very limited options to work around those.

 

This situation will NOT exist in the sim, and the 262 will have the same freedom of operation as any other aircraft, which means THEY will have just as much options to adopt the positioning and tactics they want as the allies. 

 

So, sure, tactics trump hardware... but what happens when the LW get to choose the tactics they use too, and can actually gain the initiative?

 

And that's the point, the 262 will be a beast, and there's nothing really wrong with that: it's the reality. It's why everyone went to jets ASAP, because they are BETTER and more effective in the battlefield. The fact they can't turn as tightly as props is irrelevant: in Sopwith Camel vs Spitfire, my money's on the spitfire.

 

So ultimately it'll be up on the mission designers to reign in the 262 so everyone can have fun. Just like the designers don't "force" allied air superiority in a scenario so that LW pilots can actually enjoy themselves, they'll have to restrict the 262s in some way so they don't dominate the airspace (limited numbers, restricted airfields, forcing them to lose every head-on with a Mustang sporting a red tail, and so on).

 

I'm looking forward to seeing how the designers cope with it, to be honest.

[EAF19_Marsh]

1 hour ago, JV69badatflyski said:

Yeah right.....another Urban-Net-Legend that keep returning from the grave, The walking dead is like a My little poney episode in comparison.

 

Sorry, you are claiming that the terrible sortie generation of rhe 262 units was a myth? Facts are against you. Problem of an immature design, poor material and slave labour will catch up.

 

But feel free to keep drinking whatever ?

Pilot skill - tactical position - aircraft performance has typically been the order of things within a degree of margin. Being actually able to fly, of course, trumps all of these.

 

Noone is saying that the 262 is not the most advanced type at the time, but that is only part of the wider picture.

[Ehret]

30 minutes ago, 71st_AH_Yankee_ said:

So, sure, tactics trump hardware... but what happens when the LW get to choose the tactics they use too, and can actually gain the initiative?

 

The problem is as an P-51/P-47/P-38 pilot it's not possible to use endurance to an advantage. You are on a very short leash because non-timer power settings are rubbish for engagements. IRL you would counter jet by stalking it and waiting for an opportunity or waiting for jet to run of fuel. It's not possible in the sim because of timers and (too short) contact visibility. The latter inhibits diving tactics of P-47D already which is sad and hilarious.

[MiloMorai]

2 hours ago, JV69badatflyski said:

As for the failures, i'd  like to have it, but for all planes, with all their possible and documented failures and not only the schwalbe or the spitfire MK-IXe (to stay on topic again  ).
It would be funny to see the guys with the meteor diving from 5Km and then having the hole canopy and front screen covered with fog ,with zero outside visibilty,  having to wait a minute or 2 for the fog to disperse, but that's not a failure, that's a "feature" ...

 

All I could find was the rear of the canopy could have condensation when on the ground. Could you point me to the section stating the whole canopy had condensation.

[EAF19_Marsh]

18 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

 

All I could find was the rear of the canopy could have condensation when on the ground. Could you point me to the section stating the whole canopy had condensation.

 

You mean like the G-6 / -14 series 109 canopy issues as high altitude escort elements (see Caldwell et al.)? ?

 

Goose / gander etc.