Strong cannons now weak?

[Gambit21]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

stats only promote bad flying and ego boosting.

 

 

Yep

[[DBS]Browning]

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

 stats only promote bad flying and ego boosting. 

 

I don't agree.

It's nice to be able to track your progression as a pilot or just satisfy your curiosity.

If you have problems with bad flying and your ego, it's more likely because your a poor sportsman, rather than it being the fault of statistics.

[RedFor]

Browning i would have to disagree with you

 

1. bad flying kind of kills sims ... people trying to meta game in a game that cant be or are just STATWHORING which is no fun.. and statwhoring leads to people rating others based on their stats not on their skills. I know my KDR is not the best but i have helped with many kills that i did not get credit for. also i would point out that this game is not always accurate on who actually did the killing i have seen aircraft shot down with a wing off and another player pass in and shoot it up after its already down and get the kill. so bad flying hurts the community. 

 

poor sportsmanship and ego boosting are what leads to the above problems... shoulder shooting  true kill stealing like what i described above .. that i believe is the issues that the statement that stats only promote bad flying and ego is intending to place forward... and to be honest here nothing pisses me off more than having a hard fought intense fight  followed by a kill  just to have a statwhore shoot it up on the way to the ground and get credit... takes the fun out of it yes i know i killed it but he took credit for my work and then is pointing to his Stats saying how good he is ... not helpful to most games... i do like the idea of partials because everyone who put work into the kill gets some credit... so instead of seing 30 kills you will see something more like 21.7kills and the kill stealing types will get .1 or .2 for their effort... just me tho if you dont mind the above mentioned issues more power to you. but most people hate it when others take credit for their work/actions/ideas

 

 

 

[Legioneod]

28 minutes ago, [DBS]Browning said:

 

I don't agree.

It's nice to be able to track your progression as a pilot or just satisfy your curiosity.

If you have problems with bad flying and your ego, it's more likely because your a poor sportsman, rather than it being the fault of statistics.

 

I have a problem with pilots who destroy themselves just to get a kill. Sitting on the six of someone even though they themselves are getting destroyed by 2-3 other aircraft.

 

It waste airplanes and is just bad gameplay. Only giving credit for a kill when the player lands promotes realistic flying and actually would benefit the team as a whole. Players wouldn't waste their own aircraft just to get a kill and they take stupid risk most of the time.

 

Getting a kill and dying is meaningless and doesn't help the team. Getting a kill and returning to base actually helps the team, it removes an aircraft from the enemy team and returns your aircraft to your side.

3 minutes ago, [Pb]Boxcar said:

Browning i would have to disagree with you

 

1. bad flying kind of kills sims ... people trying to meta game in a game that cant be or are just STATWHORING which is no fun.. and statwhoring leads to people rating others based on their stats not on their skills. I know my KDR is not the best but i have helped with many kills that i did not get credit for. also i would point out that this game is not always accurate on who actually did the killing i have seen aircraft shot down with a wing off and another player pass in and shoot it up after its already down and get the kill. so bad flying hurts the community. 

 

poor sportsmanship and ego boosting are what leads to the above problems... shoulder shooting  true kill stealing like what i described above .. that i believe is the issues that the statement that stats only promote bad flying and ego is intending to place forward... and to be honest here nothing pisses me off more than having a hard fought intense fight  followed by a kill  just to have a statwhore shoot it up on the way to the ground and get credit... takes the fun out of it yes i know i killed it but he took credit for my work and then is pointing to his Stats saying how good he is ... not helpful to most games... i do like the idea of partials because everyone who put work into the kill gets some credit... so instead of seing 30 kills you will see something more like 21.7kills and the kill stealing types will get .1 or .2 for their effort... just me tho if you dont mind the above mentioned issues more power to you. but most people hate it when others take credit for their work/actions/ideas

 

 

 

Agreed. It'd be nice to have shared kills based off how many players shot the aircraft.

If 2 players shot it then it would be .5 and if it more shot it then it would divide it based on the number of people who helped down it.

[[DBS]Browning]

19 minutes ago, [Pb]Boxcar said:

and to be honest here nothing pisses me off more than having a hard fought intense fight  followed by a kill  just to have a stat***** shoot it up on the way to the ground and get credit

 

 

Why does this bother you if you are not concerned about stats?

[Garven]

2 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Honestly I wouldn't mind removing stats altogether, stats only promote bad flying and ego boosting.

This complete BS as stats are a useful tool for measuring your own capabilities as a pilot and measuring how much you improved from month to month.  Vast majority of crappy pilots don't give a rats behind about stats.  In game kill messages on the other hand I would prefer servers turn off.

Edited February 2, 2019 by =AVG77=Garven

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, =AVG77=Garven said:

This complete BS as stats are a useful tool for measuring your own capabilities as a pilot and measuring how much you improved from month to month.  Vast majority of crappy pilots don't give a rats behind about stats.

 

I disagree. Anyone can get a kill, doesn't take much skill, just luck. Getting a kill doesn't really mean you are improving, especially if you constantly die after getting said kill or are putting yourself in undue danger just to get a kill.

 

Stats are not an accurate reflection of skill.

[[DBS]Browning]

7 minutes ago, =AVG77=Garven said:

This complete BS as stats are a useful tool for measuring your own capabilities as a pilot and measuring how much you improved from month to month.  Vast majority of crappy pilots don't give a rats behind about stats.  In game kill messages on the other hand I would prefer servers turn off.

I suspect the vast majority of shoulder shooters, kill stealers and the like are indeed after the ingame message and are not concerned with their stats.

[Garven]

38 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

I disagree. Anyone can get a kill, doesn't take much skill, just luck. Getting a kill doesn't really mean you are improving, especially if you constantly die after getting said kill or are putting yourself in undue danger just to get a kill.

 

Stats are not an accurate reflection of skill.

Stats also contain the amount of times you have died and how many planes you have lost and are equally important numbers.

 

When you look at (ground or air) kills per sortie, kills per death, and kills per aircraft lost are three things that help determine whether or not a person is a good pilot.  My second full TAW I flew my goals were best summarized as basically to die less and lose less aircraft while at the same time destroying as many enemy air and ground targets as I could and stats enabled me to track that.

Edited February 2, 2019 by =AVG77=Garven

[69th_Mobile_BBQ]

2 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

I disagree. Anyone can get a kill, doesn't take much skill, just luck. Getting a kill doesn't really mean you are improving, especially if you constantly die after getting said kill or are putting yourself in undue danger just to get a kill.

 

Stats are not an accurate reflection of skill.

 

I've been trying to work out a *ahem* scientific formula to quantify exactly how much my luck sucks.  Stats are an information component I look to for my "research". 

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Honestly I wouldn't mind removing stats altogether, stats only promote bad flying and ego boosting.

 

Sorry, but that is nonsense.  Done properly stats are the best way to promote realistic behavior and good flying.

[Legioneod]

16 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Sorry, but that is nonsense.  Done properly stats are the best way to promote realistic behavior and good flying.

Yes if done properly. What we have now is not a good way to do it. What I suggested would promote realistic flying while keeping stats.

[Gambit21]

Careful - I have him on ignore and can see his post only because you quoted it.

Might want to try conversing with the nearest spambot instead, less frustrating and likely more productive.

[Feathered_IV]

I think that stats and points are a good thing.  The more the better really.  Points for successful escort, recon or transport for example.  Not just for who put the last bullet in.

As Legioneod said, if done properly it will promote good behaviour and good flying.

 

When done right the stats and points provide an incentive.  Generally speaking, in singleplayer, players need to come away from a game feeling like they were a part of something.  Whereas in MP, players need to come away feeling like they've won something.

[RedFor]

while plenty of people like stats ... its the ones who refer to them excessively that cause problems along with those who only care about number of kills... those who worry about streaks are the ones i stand with ... what most people are saying is that they personally use stats for this or that but they are not actually looking at what a simple and unrefined stat system does to many a gamer. the problem with stats in general is there is not stat for helping the mission or helping a flight... there are no stats for how much you helped your team or how well you did an assigned job.. so the only way people feel like they are doing something useful is by killing targets .... well a good cap pilot defending bombers can help a team a lot more than one guy making kills at a ratio of 3 to 1. so stats are in no way a useful thing especially in a flight sim.  stats are for Strategic level command not individual personal worth or skill. and even in ww2 when people would go oooohhhh AAAAHHH that guy has 30+ kills if you read pilots accounts of the war most kills were made without the enemy seeing the aggressor or against bombers with a large number of losses from gunners not intense dogfights with one pilot killing one enemy after another. To put it simple stats tell an individual pilot almost nothing about their skill especially in a simulation where you will never die and it wont be over ever. even in a dynamic campaign if you die and loose your pilot you start another one and even thought the pilot is new .... you the player still have the skills your learned from the previous game.. so i think besides on a mission to mission system stats have very little to do with skill and are only harmful.

[BraveSirRobin]

28 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Yes if done properly. What we have now is not a good way to do it. What I suggested would promote realistic flying while keeping stats.

 

You currently get 0 points and kill streaks are ended if you get killed or captured.  What system would be better than that?

[Gambit21]

1 minute ago, [Pb]Boxcar said:

while plenty of people like stats ... its the ones who refer to them excessively that cause problems along with those who only care about number of kills... those who worry about streaks are the ones i stand with ... what most people are saying is that they personally use stats for this or that but they are not actually looking at what a simple and unrefined stat system does to many a gamer. the problem with stats in general is there is not stat for helping the mission or helping a flight... there are no stats for how much you helped your team or how well you did an assigned job.. so the only way people feel like they are doing something useful is by killing targets .... well a good cap pilot defending bombers can help a team a lot more than one guy making kills at a ratio of 3 to 1. so stats are in no way a useful thing especially in a flight sim.  stats are for Strategic level command not individual personal worth or skill. and even in ww2 when people would go oooohhhh AAAAHHH that guy has 30+ kills if you read pilots accounts of the war most kills were made without the enemy seeing the aggressor or against bombers with a large number of losses from gunners not intense dogfights with one pilot killing one enemy after another. To put it simple stats tell an individual pilot almost nothing about their skill especially in a simulation where you will never die and it wont be over ever. even in a dynamic campaign if you die and loose your pilot you start another one and even thought the pilot is new .... you the player still have the skills your learned from the previous game.. so i think besides on a mission to mission system stats have very little to do with skill and are only harmful.

 

Yep - E-Sports.

I relate completely to your post - I flew with a crew back then who all felt the same way.

We just did the job, kills came but we didn't chase them at the expense of the assigned mission.

 

I kept my own stats on a pad of paper, mostly to keep track of mistakes that led to me getting killed.

[BraveSirRobin]

Just now, Gambit21 said:

 

Yep - E-Sports.

I relate completely to your post - I flew with a crew back then who all felt the same way.

We just did the job, kills came but we didn't chase them at the expense of the assigned mission.

 

I kept my own stats on a pad of paper, mostly to keep track of mistakes that led to me getting killed.

 

lol

 

Bomber crews and fighter pilots painted kill marks on their aircraft.  They were definitely keeping score.

[CrazyDuck]

Actually, what grinds my gears is that cannons now appear to be substantially less effective in antitank role as before. Which makes me think that actually weapons were toned down rather than aircraft damage models tweaked. 

 

While before you needed roughly 4 direct hits with NS-37 into a Stug from the side to destroy it, you now need a lot more direct hits. However, results appear to be more randomized than before. 

[Solmyr]

8 hours ago, Royal_Flight said:

a change I would really like to see is to remove the instant, gamey notification of a kill that pops up on screen.

 

It gifts you bonus situational awareness as you know an aircraft is out of the fight even if you can’t see it, so you know it’s no longer a threat. And it can give away relative dispositions of each side over a target. 

 

4 hours ago, Field-Ops said:

Also +1 for option of removing kill messages all together.

 

You can do that yet :

I imagine that you can set it server side also then ?..

 

 

7 hours ago, Legioneod said:

This. You should only get credit for the kill if you make it back to your airfield or friendly territory and survive. Dead pilots can't claim kills irl, they shouldn't be able to do it in-game.

 

I disagree. IRL any dead pilot would be credited for his kills performed in his last sortie by the administration, other pilots and officiers.

By the way, and even if it's not be promoted, this kind problems were a reality yet : historically plenty of pilots died mostly in tribute to their stats, when they weren't actually compromising their squad-mates life for that.

Edited February 3, 2019 by Solmyr

[MercCrom175]

Stats can go they are useless and only promote AIR QUAKE crap.

[BraveSirRobin]

1 hour ago, MercCrom175 said:

Stats can go they are useless and only promote AIR QUAKE crap.

 

I've seen much worse behavior on servers with no stats, so I'd love to hear how you reached this conclusion.

[Garven]

2 hours ago, Solmyr said:

You can do that yet :

I imagine that you can set it server side also then ?..

Thanks didn't realize it was an option to turn them off when a server has them enabled.  Until now I thought it was just server side.

[blitze]

Decided to give the 190 A3 a career in Stalingrad Winter.  Finding on this bird, her cannons are shredding what ever I squirt them at.  A short burst on LA5's will have their pilots bailing, Taking care of Il2's no problem.  Love it.

 

In VR the 190 is a gem, can be flown easily like the butcher bird she is.

 

In QMB I was testing out Lagg's with 23mm cannons and they saw off the rear fuselage of Ju88's.  Munch the Engines too, I just think the larger ones are just spud pushers. like the 37mm on the P39.

 

Must try the 30mm on the Gustav and see how that fairs against a A20?

[RedFor]

look the fact that people are focusing on stats at all kills the SIMULATION part of the game... real pilots (i know this is a game) focused on doing their assigned mission and getting home ... over and over until they could go back to the states.... lets be honest now except for single player .... do stats matter in the slightest ?... no

 

giving number of aircraft killed and ground targets destroyed by types at the end of a flight ... fine... listing and tracking them for all to see.... meh hurts the game.... those are my opinions and while some love stats thinking that it tells you if your getting better.... well fine but i must say the best way to see if your better is to go dogfight someone in best 3 of 5 and do it multiple  times then you will know ... in the larger picture ... i would rather see the devs and gamers in general aim more for the end result than personal glory ... or high stats.... i would rather win a map with one kill then loose one with 5... 

 

so i have broken this argument down into three catagorys... 

 

1. people who don't want stats and want people to focus on the mission

2. people who want stats and treat them as a tool to improve themselves and monitor their performance.

3. People who think stats inform everyone of their skills and will do almost anything for a kill or take risks to pad their stats at the expense of the game and the team.. and lets be honest other peoples fun and enjoyment of the game.

 

so after this i would say that stats are bad for flight sims unless they served a function like Aces high two and allowing the use of top tier aircraft... what i think would be best is simple.

 

1. remove the stats tab from the game completely 

2. inform pilots of their stats at the end of their flight.... examples being aircraft kill .. 2 buildings ..1 railway car... and 1 ship.... or 1 aircraft kill .. 2 AAA and 1 death... and if its important to them they can write it down... 

3. find a way to encourage teamwork both in the map and in small flights... maybe even give a % effect on the map by the player without specific stats... like 1 kill = 50% divided by the number of aircraft available to the other team. while time spent within escort range of a bomber = a different mathematical % and even bombers 1 target = 50% divided by the total number of ground targets needed to win map... that simple your contribution was blank % of what was needed to win the match... then you could use the same system to subtract from the total the number of aircraft lost and or possibly friendly targets destroyed... so getting shot down hurts your score.. instead of being a simple stat .. that most stat focused pilots ignore... not all mind you but most who are trying to get a high kill count. 

 

think about it for the average pilot what is most important ... kills... if we take the focus off of kills then they are going to go for the highest score they can which will mean just hunting aircraft all day and stealing kills is less beneficial than taking bombs every other flight to do some damage... would help the game and would encurage most players to help the team and play to their strengths... while also push them to learn skills in areas they are not good at just to improve their contribution score.

 

i think that is a win win setup... stat people get the scores but are not displayed ... their contribution is shown for all to see and wasting aircraft or damage to friendly targets hurts it. 

think of how few people really focus on bombing... their scores.. assuming they have a few good hits ...  would be rather high while fighters would be slightly lower as while shooting other aircraft down in the long run is good more often than not its faster to crush the target areas and per map is how this game is played... even on TAW aircraft are recovered after every map ... so the system would work there to instead of kill streaks and the like they could post an average % of contribution for maps played.. then the only other thing needed to be listed is the total number of maps the pilot has joined.. so if you help with 3 maps out of a campaign you might show 10% but that might not be as good a score when you really look at it as a 5% over 12 maps... as each map there are a different amount of enemy players... 

 

anyway that's what i came up with from reading all these posts and decided to post my option cuz hey why not... at least i can get opinions on them...

 

 

 

[bzc3lk]

5 hours ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

lol

 

Bomber crews and fighter pilots painted kill marks on their aircraft.  They were definitely keeping score.

 

I bet they weren't disregarding their lives to pad their scores, unlike what we see from the online stat whores.

Edited February 3, 2019 by bzc3lk

[BraveSirRobin]

12 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

 

I bet they weren't disregarding their lives to pad their scores, unlike what we see from the online stat whores.

 

lol  Your post makes absolutely no sense.  If the stats system doesn't give you credit for kills when you're killed, then why would "stat whores" disregard their lives to pad their scores?  

 

A server with no stats usually results in all manner of suicidal nonsense, because there is no incentive to survive.

[ZachariasX]

49 minutes ago, bzc3lk said:

 

I bet they weren't disregarding their lives to pad their scores, unlike what we see from the online stat whores.

You pad your scores by not caring too much about mission objectives yourself and you feed on prey that does (they are the easier ones to find). You also do so by being on TS and bring friends and prey the ones that don‘t (and still go for mission objectives).

 

35 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

A server with no stats usually results in all manner of suicidal nonsense, because there is no incentive to survive.

It‘s worse. Consider that you have to fly all the way home if you survive.

 

I‘d say it is a minority that behaves in such manner. But it takes one and the chant starts again.

 

[Legioneod]

I know it's off topic but stats need some improvement. I don't mind stats as long as they are done correctly.

 

1st.

Kills should either be shared or the kill should go the the player who did the most damage to the aircraft. Many times I've seen friendlies shoulder shoot and take my kill at the last second even though I did much more damage to the enemy, or worse, they'll shoot me or ram into me by trying to take the kill.

 

2nd.

Kills should only be awarded at the end of the flight and preferably only if you survive and make it back to base or bail in friendly territory. This would encourage players to try and survive and make it home alive instead of throwing their life and aircraft away for a kill.

 

Imo these two things would go a long way to improving and encouraging better and more realistic gameplay.

[CountZero]

6 hours ago, CrazyDuck said:

Actually, what grinds my gears is that cannons now appear to be substantially less effective in antitank role as before. Which makes me think that actually weapons were toned down rather than aircraft damage models tweaked. 

 

While before you needed roughly 4 direct hits with NS-37 into a Stug from the side to destroy it, you now need a lot more direct hits. However, results appear to be more randomized than before. 

 

You notice this because ground units got more detailed with one of updates ( 3.007 i think) so damage you do to them dont make them as easy to destroy as before, not because guns got change, they didnt say anywhere i remenber that they adjusted guns, they adjusted DM of airplanes and ground units got improved detailed DM.

[bzc3lk]

52 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

lol  Your post makes absolutely no sense.  If the stats system doesn't give you credit for kills when you're killed, then why would "stat whores" disregard their lives to pad their scores?  

 

A server with no stats usually results in all manner of suicidal nonsense, because there is no incentive to survive.

 

I think you need to go back and read the context of my statement in relation to your "Bomber crews and fighter pilots painted kill marks on their aircraft.  They were definitely keeping score. "  because your answer  is not making any sense when comparing the real world with virtual world scores comparison as alluded to in your statement.

 

The stat whore is willing to gamble his virtual life because he can just press the re-fly button, where the real world individual doesn't have that luxury, so shoulder shooting, kill stealing, vulching, chute killing,  and general "arsolery"  means nothing to them. If his behaviour allows him to have his fifteen minutes of fame as the top dog on the stats table he has achieved his aim of proving his virtual manhood to the rest of the online community.

 

When Rise Of Flight first appeared online you had to survive and protect your virtual life until the map rolled over because you couldn't just hit re-fly and as a consequence people flew in a totally different manner to protect their life. After they introduced the re-fly option all the stat whoring started to surface with some of the primary offenders being some of the  top dogs on the Rof virtual score board , including escape/disconnect behaviour to game the game , all in the name of stat whoring.

 

If people want a scoreboard (stats), why not make it team based (objective related) so your stats go to the team score. This will eliminate the "look at me I'm top of the table fifteen minutes of fame mentality" very often seen online with their online behaviour.

[CountZero]

17 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

I know it's off topic but stats need some improvement. I don't mind stats as long as they are done correctly.

 

1st.

Kills should either be shared or the kill should go the the player who did the most damage to the aircraft. Many times I've seen friendlies shoulder shoot and take my kill at the last second even though I did much more damage to the enemy, or worse, they'll shoot me or ram into me by trying to take the kill.

 

2nd.

Kills should only be awarded at the end of the flight and preferably only if you survive and make it back to base or bail in friendly territory. This would encourage players to try and survive and make it home alive instead of throwing their life and aircraft away for a kill.

 

Imo these two things would go a long way to improving and encouraging better and more realistic gameplay.

 

1. in Vaal system it works like that now, i get assist if i hit enemy airplane and someone els hit it and do more % of damage gets full kill ( wonding pilot dosent count)

2. Vaal system is focused on revording players that servive, problem is ppl dont care about that, example:

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/pilot/1053/=PUH=Drinkins/?tour=42

that guy has low rankings low points , but he destroyed most Ground units and was main reason Red side win, he dosent care about his personal stats he cares only how to win objectives and missions, any change in stats or kill rewors will not effect his behavior.

65h 350 sorties and 126kia+90captured

this guy on the other hand is also ga and he knows if he destroys ground units and stays alive he will have more points and be on top:

http://il2stat.aviaskins.com:8008/en/sorties/10415/VARYAG/?tour=42

12 sorties and 4h spend on server in month and he didnt get kia and is on top

you cant see just from stats whos better ga betwen two, you can just see one had goal to be first that month and other had goal to make his side win that month no mather how his personal stats look.

 

Vaal stats most servers have promotes staying alive, ppl just dont care about it on fast food servers, they use them for differant things, you cant enforce TAW mentality and stats on server like that it wont work to change players behaviors on servers without overall goal or unlimited lifes and airplanes player can have.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[Royal_Flight]

7 hours ago, Solmyr said:

 

 

You can do that yet :

I imagine that you can set it server side also then ?..

 

 

Interesting. 

Now if that were to be set server-wide, it could solve a lot of the problems mentioned in this thread. 

 

For the the avoidance of doubt, while the stats system could do with a few changes (adding damaged, shared or probable kills), it doesn’t need to be scrapped entirely or linked to a successful landing or anything - just removing the notification of a kill and putting it at the ‘end mission’ screen (where the points are usually shown) would go a long way to fixing the statwhoring issue. 

 

Simple fix; no-one is punished or forced to play in a certain way, but patient pilots get rewarded while the ego-driven showoffs are encouraged to fly in a more measured style. 

[CountZero]

When you go to create server you have box for kill notifications, so server can also disable it if he wonts for all players on it

[HagarTheHorrible]

10 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

I have a problem with pilots who destroy themselves just to get a kill. Sitting on the six of someone even though they themselves are getting destroyed by 2-3 other aircraft.

 

It waste airplanes and is just bad gameplay. Only giving credit for a kill when the player lands promotes realistic flying and actually would benefit the team as a whole. Players wouldn't waste their own aircraft just to get a kill and they take stupid risk most of the time.

 

Getting a kill and dying is meaningless and doesn't help the team. Getting a kill and returning to base actually helps the team, it removes an aircraft from the enemy team and returns your aircraft to your side.

Agreed. It'd be nice to have shared kills based off how many players shot the aircraft.

If 2 players shot it then it would be .5 and if it more shot it then it would divide it based on the number of people who helped down it.

 

I don't think it's quite as simple as that.  The reward (pleasure, endorphins) of shooting someone down is far greater than the downer of being shot down especially if the latter greatly outnumbers the former.   In some ways it's a self reinforcing loop.  If you are already doomed and the only downside is having to start again then why would someone give up the possibility of a reward.

 

An optional credit system might be helpful ?  I was trying to think of a possible simaly for the above but the best I could come up with was , it's like playing the slot machines, just that at the end of the session you get all your money back, the potential pleasure rewards are high but any losses are very small by comparison.

 

What do I mean by a credit system ?  Well, you start with, for example, 100 credits, above which, even if you are very good and successful, it cannot go ( can't quite decide on that last point, it might be better if the amount a player loses is multiplied by the number of kills they have, the more you have the more you risk to lose) If you get killed you lose 5 credits, if you bail out, over friendly territory, you lose 1 credit, over enemy territory 2 credits, if you shoot down an enemy you gain a couple of credits, share a kill, 1 credit etc etc.  As a credit balance goes down it puts increasing restrictions on what aircraft, or which airbases, you can use,  If your credit goes up by flying sensibly and completing objectives, shooting down enemy aircraft, then access is restored.  The incentive would be on the player to preserve their credit score ( V-life), this might be reset every night, or week, or month.  I'm not suggesting that the above numbers are realistically set, or considered in any deep thoughtful way,  to affect gameplay, they are just notional examples, servers might even have the option to set their own values, in a table, that encourages how they see the game being played and how they want to skew it.

[-250H-Ursus_]

Yeah, all cannons are strange now. The best way to kill somebody its shot to the canopy and engine area, because the engines are easy to break now for all nations

[ironk79]

although i prefer the new DM to the old one, cannons dont have the punch they used to have. Looking at actual footage of shredded fuselage and wings from just a asingle 20mm/ 30mm shell, the game doesnt really reflect the carnage they inflict.

Sometimes i cover a plane from left to right or front to back in continoius line of exploding shells, but the enemy isnt really bothered and even continues to fight and manouver, when in real life he should struggle to emergency land or bail. In my opinion it still need a little tweak.

[Guest deleted@83466]

It actually boggles my mind every time I see people claiming that caring about stats leads to Airquake type behavior.  That is about 100% opposite of my experience in multiplayer.   From the first days I ever played online air combat it was obvious that there were two types of players:  Those people who paid attention to their stats, and therefore took care in their flying, and on the opposite end of the spectrum, those that were always throwing around terms like "stat whore" and never missing the opportunity to proclaim that they "didn't care about stats".   The latter group were almost invariably the Air Quakers, dying several times per map, flying like Kamikazes, vulching, ramming, and all manner of arcade-game-like behaviors, and then they would rationalize it all by claiming that they were somehow "mission-oriented".  It struck me as nonsense.   When I see people throwing around the term "stat whore", all I see is sour grapes.

[BraveSirRobin]

8 hours ago, bzc3lk said:

 

The stat whore is willing to gamble his virtual life because he can just press the re-fly button, where the real world individual doesn't have that luxury, so shoulder shooting, kill stealing, vulching, chute killing,  and general "arsolery"  means nothing to them. If his behaviour allows him to have his fifteen minutes of fame as the top dog on the stats table he has achieved his aim of proving his virtual manhood to the rest of the online community.

 

 You’re still not making any sense. The people who don’t value their lives are the people who are ignoring the stats. You don’t get your 15 minutes of fame as the top dog if you keep getting killed. The people who care about their stats and care about being top dog will try to stay alive, because that’s what the stats reward. 

[RAY-EU]

We are talking about a WW2 realistic historic flight simulator or a simple Arcade Game proposal ? Like a fire counter plane strike .