VR Wow

[dburne]

4 hours ago, dog1 said:

so does or does it not run smoothly on window 7 64 bit ultimate ?  i'm reading whatever i can find on google but the makers seem to dodge which windows is recommended or what does it support .

 

The only thing about using Win 7 with the Rift is it will not make use of the ASW feature.

With ASW enabled, if one cannot maintain 90 fps ( and most don't) it will drop to 45 fps and interpolate every other frame with prediction of where the frame would be. In effect showing 45 fps but is actually still feeding the headset at 90 fps.

With Win 7 this would revert back to the older ATW method which is not quite as good. ASW allows one to get a decent VR experience on less powerful PC's.

 

However you can disable running ASW in the Rift with CTRL+Numpad 1 or by using the Oculus Tray Tool. For me I find I prefer having ASW disabled as it gets rid of the prop artifacts and blurriness/ghosting of planes as they fly by. But if your system cannot maintain at least 45 fps or little better with ASW off, you would likely induce some stuttering.

 

With Windows 10 one can use the ASW feature of the Rift. ( and actually Windows 8 but I don't think anyone runs that one any more lol).

 

Edit: Also Oculus RiftCore/Dash requires Windows 10 to be able to use all features of it, like pulling windows out. So some features of the Oculus Home software will not be available with Windows 7. Course lot of folks don't really get into playing around with Oculus Home software. I kind of dig it myself.

So for best overall VR experience I would suggest going ahead and updating to Windows 10. If only going to use for say this game and nothing else, then you will be fine but just beware the limitations. Course I thought that was all I would be using my Rift for when I got it, but boy did it change me I have a lot of fun with other things also.

Edited January 24, 2019 by dburne

[w00dy]

To play BOX in VR, I use MSFF Sidewinder 2 joystick, a Saitek throttle quadrant and voice attack software to cover all the keys I need.

 

I find this works great for me.

 

If your interested in voice attack here's a link, I got my copy from steam. https://voiceattack.com/

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by w00dy

[blitze]

1 hour ago, dog1 said:

A) For VR you need the HOTAS throttle ,i had a look at the thrustmaster 16000 and says it has 18 buttons , but i looked at videos and i only see 3 orange buttons . You need buttons since you wont see the keyboard . If anyone has one my question is can you programme hatch , brakes ,start stop engine  , release ordnance to name a few on the throttle ?  if not then what do you do ? 

B) my processor is a I7 6 series 3.4 2 years old now  and not enough for VR  and there are only 2 higher than that starting from I 7 8 series 3.6 plus turbo , is that enough ? 

If you want a relatively inexpensive Hall Sensor based HOTAS Stick and Throttle, have a look at the Saitek X52 Pro.  That is the Black and Grey one with 2 wheels and buttons under the MFD on the Throttle.

 

Sure they are not top of the line but they do the job well and give you many controls to map to.  You can also use key-Button combinations so if you know your keyboard, you can use Ctrl and a button for a function or Alt and a button.

 

That way you can use group assignments for different elements of your flying.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Can someone advise if now is a good time to buy into VR or not? As I understand it is a very good experience but as it exists it will not give the same clarity/resolution/competitive edge as a monitor with track Ir. Basically I don't want to invest in it now for and then have a HMD come out in the relativly near future that solves these issues. 

[SCG_motoadve]

1 hour ago, AeroAce said:

Can someone advise if now is a good time to buy into VR or not? As I understand it is a very good experience but as it exists it will not give the same clarity/resolution/competitive edge as a monitor with track Ir. Basically I don't want to invest in it now for and then have a HMD come out in the relativly near future that solves these issues. 

Buy now, its amazing!

I have a good PC and have the Odyssey + and runs smooth,looks beautiful, ultra settings and AA,  and even the small letters on the prop instrument dial in the 109 are readable.

[Guest deleted@134347]

5 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Can someone advise if now is a good time to buy into VR or not? As I understand it is a very good experience but as it exists it will not give the same clarity/resolution/competitive edge as a monitor with track Ir. Basically I don't want to invest in it now for and then have a HMD come out in the relativly near future that solves these issues. 

 

it depends on whether you like a) flying  or  b) gaming while happen to be flying

 

if it's  b)  then you should definitely check it out, however don't spend money on it right away and instead try to demo it with someone whol already had it setup for Il2. There are 4 different HMD's currently (5th one is around the corner - pimax) and they all behave and offer the experience in different ways with their own quirks, pro's and con's. As it turns out for highly specialized sims the VR subjective preferences are extremely important, especially for the new comers, since it depends on your eyesight, head size, and most importantly expectations.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

13 minutes ago, moosya said:

 

it depends on whether you like a) flying  or  b) gaming while happen to be flying

 

if it's  b)  then you should definitely check it out, however don't spend money on it right away and instead try to demo it with someone whol already had it setup for Il2. There are 4 different HMD's currently (5th one is around the corner - pimax) and they all behave and offer the experience in different ways with their own quirks, pro's and con's. As it turns out for highly specialized sims the VR subjective preferences are extremely important, especially for the new comers, since it depends on your eyesight, head size, and most importantly 

 

I sense I'm going to need to do a but ton of research. 

 

Does anyone know a good source of info or maybe a youtuber that covers the industry? Not just reviews but industry in general, the future .... it would of course be a bonus if it was related to sims.

[Tyberan]

I would also be interested as well. 

[blitze]

No idea on Sim based VR YouTubers but have 2 cents to throw in with regards to VR and eye sight.  Lenses in VR Headsets and the 3D depth makes VR viewing more like that of real life.  Objects and placement in the 3D plane distance wise is similar.  It is not like flying on a 2D monitor where your focus has to be on a short range, the monitor itself.

 

I have just read 7 pages in the VR comments section about the new RTX cards and there seem to be many obsessed with hitting the magical 90fps to have their  "smooth VR" experience.  Here's the thing, for me it is more about Resolution (Not SuperSampling which is a poor imitation to make up for lack of resolution), not frames per second that makes the experience better.  High fps were required for earlier gen headsets due to lack of image fidelity and the feeling of nausea that would create for some people.

 

With higher native resolutions now coming on to the market place fps and SS are less of a requirement.  That and smoothing implementations for frame syncing movement.  This is where the newer cards would come in handy,  being able to push the pixels and effects to headsets.

 

Back to Headsets and choices, higher res Headsets are the way to go.  At the moment there is Vive Pro, StarVR or Pimax which will be releasing sales to non backers within a month or two.  The other thing to consider especially with Sims is FOV.  I think this also makes a big difference with the flying experience. I would take high resolution and wide FOV at 60fps any day over low resolution and small FOV at 90fps. 

 

Will the current gen headsets give total clarity at high resolutions and FOV - No, not at the moment, maybe down the track with much higher resolution, eye and mask area mapping of the user and resultant calculated lens/mask distortion profiles created for each user.  That being said, look at a car 500m away out the corner of your eyes and tell me how detailed it is.  FOV or 170 will just enable us to check 6 without having to turn our heads completely and establish is something is there.  Nothing more. If you want detail, then you need to bring the object of interest more into your forward view.

 

I'd say hold off on VR until you can get you hands in the next couple months on the new HMD's and compare them.  See which one you prefer and go for it.  VR is moving beyond its first steps and it is great for us flyers.

 

Wide FOV, eye tracking, foereat rendering, high resolution, leap motion - there is a lot of VR tech that is starting to fall into place which will make a huge impact on the industry. 2019 the year of Linux - oops - I mean VR. ?

[Tyberan]

Good to know. So the hmd vr are around 1k plus the gfx card. Guess I'll save my penny's and get an rtx 2080 or something then at least I'll get a few years use with newer vr  tech

 

[ironk79]

 

12 hours ago, blitze said:

I'd say hold off on VR until you can get you hands in the next couple months on the new HMD's and compare them.  See which one you prefer and go for it.  VR is moving beyond its first steps and it is great for us flyers.
 

With this advice you are:

1. Missing out a great expirience of flying a WW2 warplane today and the next weeks and months

2. wait forever since new Tech is constantly evolving and around the corner

 

i would say 95% enjoy their VR expirience today, knowing there is room for improvement, upgrading as soon as upgrade worthy and affordable HW is available.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, ironk79 said:

 

With this advice you are:

1. Missing out a great expirience of flying a WW2 warplane today and the next weeks and months

2. wait forever since new Tech is constantly evolving and around the corner

 

i would say 95% enjoy their VR expirience today, knowing there is room for improvement, upgrading as soon as upgrade worthy and affordable HW is available.

 

Agreed. VR has me hook line and sinker. 

And as soon as a true next gen device comes that I feel is worth my upgrading from my Rift CV1 I will grab that puppy in a heartbeat.

[Guest deleted@134347]

15 hours ago, AeroAce said:

 

I sense I'm going to need to do a but ton of research. 

 

Does anyone know a good source of info or maybe a youtuber that covers the industry? Not just reviews but industry in general, the future .... it would of course be a bonus if it was related to sims.

 

true, however it can be summarized in to the following:

 

PC specs. These are pretty much universal for the best possible VR fps results. There are slight deviations, however, gains/losses are in 1-5%, so just get the best value.

• high single thread performance cpu. For best results use the 8th and 9th gen CPU's (8xxx, 9xxx). However, the older 6700k works and is somewhat acceptable as well.
• cpu frequency must be above 4.7ghz, which requires overclocking (unlocked 'K' intel cpu's). Just accept it as a gospel.   Or you're free to read hundreds or posts in VR section.
• 1080 or 1080TI minimum is preferred. Some folks use 1070, i guess that's possible but I personally haven't tried those. It may work with rift/vive due to their lower resolution, however may not be enough for odyssey/vivepro with higher res.
• 3200mhz 14CAS RAM. The lower the CAS latency the better single-thread CPU performance.

 

HMD:  These you need to experience first hand if you want to make the best personal decision. I'm not commenting on wand controllers, the sim doesn't use it. I'm providing the summarized commentary from thousands of reviews, descriptions, experiences.  All HMD's have the same 110 degree Field of View. Also, no comments on pricing, which varies significantly, however it's a question of "value" and that is extremely subjective in this topic.

 

- Oculus Rift.  First one to VR market.

• pro's:   Has the best ergonomics and fits everyone's head.  Built-in headphones.
• con's:  uses usb-based tracking cameras, which requires high powered USB ports (2.0 is supported but 3.0 is highly recommended) and continuous fiddling with USB ports configs to get the best experience. I had a ton of issues with it in particular, however there's a ton of people who didn't, it's a weak design area.  Owned by Zuckerberg and is a closed eco-system.  ?
• resolution:   1080×1200  per eye
• app env:   Requires 2 applications to run Il2  (Oculus VR services + SteamVR).
• lenses:  Fresnel.  Can't mod anything.

 

- HTC Vive (original).  Second to market

• pro's:   5% brighter display. Open eco-system. Native SteamVR support. 100% Excellent tracking via blue-tooth cameras (no USB).
• con's:   no headphones (however a $100 optional add-on DAS is available from htc).  Ergonomically much poorer than rift, need to fiddle with the fit to get the best results by adding foam pads, etc, mileage will vary.
• resolution:   1080×1200  per eye
• app env:   Requires only SteamVR
• lenses:  Fresnel. However a GearVR lense mod is possible and highly recommended to get rid of the light rays and increase the 'sweet spot' (center focus).

 

- HTC Vive Pro.  'upgrade'

• pro's:   higher resolution. Better ergonomic fit than original Vive.  Has built-in headphones. Open eco-system. Native SteamVR support. 100% Excellent tracking via blue-tooth cameras (no USB).
• con's:  fresnel lenses it comes with offer a ton of light rays and a very very small sweet spot. Heavier than any other headset.
• resolution:   1400 x 1600 per eye, a 78% increase. Extremely noticeable.
• app env:   Requires only SteamVR
• lenses:  Fresnel. However a GearVR lense mod is simply a MUST to get rid of the light rays and increase the 'sweet spot' (center focus).

 

- Samsung Odyssey/Odyssey+. 

• pro's:   New Odyssey+ has headphones. higher resolution than rift/original vive. Outside tracking (doesn't require any cameras/sensors setup).
• con's:  Original Odyssey doesn't have headphones. 10-15% less brightness than VivePro. Outside tracking, which is prone to interference from light fixtures (ceiling lamps, table lamps, etc). Ergonomically the worst fit out of all headsets, it either fits you or it doesn't, there's no in-between and no way to adjust anything. Uses Windows AR environment framework, which is baked in to the Windows OS, i.e. extremely difficult to troubleshoot if something goes awry and may require reinstallation of AR packages or massive annual updates.
• resolution:   1400 x 1600 per eye, same as vivePro.  Odyssey+ uses some special display that reduces the Screen Door Effect.
• app env:   Windows AR + SteamVR
• lenses:  Fresnel. no mods possible.

 

Pimax 5K (and Pimax 8k models). 

• pro's:   hmd game changer. Much higher resolution (2k per eye),  variable Field of View, i.e.  110/150/170 degrees.  Very light weight.  Selective rendering (foveated rendering) to reduce gpu demands, modular (can support external hand tracking in the future), future internal eye tracking (demo'ed), there's a slew of stuff coming for it, this one you can read up on yourself.
• con's:   Chinese company (good/bad). Very difficult to get your hands on it right now. Almost all of the kickstarter campaign backers received their units and the Sept/Dec pre-orders are just starting to get fulfilled. IMHO the general availability may be realistic in the 2nd-3rd quarter of this year. 
• resolution:   2560×1440  per eye (for 5k) and  3840 x 2160 per eye (8k, however can support only 2k hdmi input, so this extra resolution is pointless).
• app env:   Pitool + SteamVR
• lenses:   some specialized ones with huge FoV...

 

I've had all of the fist 4 HMD's and I've settled on VivePro. It offers the best VR experience (for me) as of this moment (with GearVR mod).

Hope to get the pimax 5k sometime next month... but there are folks in VR section that already have it and you can read up their commentary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by moosya

[Georgio]

21 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Can someone advise if now is a good time to buy into VR or not? As I understand it is a very good experience but as it exists it will not give the same clarity/resolution/competitive edge as a monitor with track Ir. Basically I don't want to invest in it now for and then have a HMD come out in the relativly near future that solves these issues. 

 

If you have a half decent modern computer then now IS a good time to get into VR as the headsets are relatively cheap and the experience is a game-changer.

You could wait until the resolution is the same as a current 2D monitor but it will be a long wait as VR is in it's infancy much the same as when the first Voodoo graphics 'accelerators' started appearing to boost 2D gameplay.

My advice would be to buy either a Rift or Vive as a first headset, purely because they are so cheap but more importantly because they are matured products with reasonable resolution and superb tracking.

You could go with the latest 5k/8k headset but from what I've seen the increase in resolution isn't as pronounced as advertised and the tracking isn't as good and if there's one thing you need as a VR virgin is perfect tracking otherwise you'll be puking all over your lap.

 

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

Personally , after few days of trying Il2 in VR I go back to 2D and wouldn't look back until new generation will be available. I'm not against today's VR, I do really enjoyed other games like Lone echo or Dirt Rally but not Il2.

[blitze]

6 hours ago, ironk79 said:

 

With this advice you are:

1. Missing out a great expirience of flying a WW2 warplane today and the next weeks and months

2. wait forever since new Tech is constantly evolving and around the corner

 

i would say 95% enjoy their VR expirience today, knowing there is room for improvement, upgrading as soon as upgrade worthy and affordable HW is available.

Well, when I invested in VR, I looked at what was available on the market and then I looked at what was being developed.  I personally decided that I was not prepared to invest a lot of money into the then current VR Headsets as their specs and visuals were for me underwhelming.  Instead I went with a little known Chinese company and invested in their Kickstarter Product.  I ended up waiting almost a year beyond initial expectations but for me it was worth the wait.

 

That project is now delivering to backers and after that their products will be available for retail.  The Pimax 5K+ or the Pimax 8K.  There are some alternatives to those Headsets, hence the go and have a look at them and see what one feels is worth their investment.  I would advocate the same if buying a graphics card or a monitor or a car or any other piece of equipment / product.

 

I think there will be some good things for VR in 2019 - if stupid politicians don't get in the way and f up collaborative efforts.

 

Also, where was HTC or Occulas been recently with VR hardware development?  Only the Vive Pro has been released with a screen update but still with same lenses and restrictive FOV and that was only because of that upstart Chinese company.  Sometimes one has to support further afield for tech development.  Regardless of propaganda we are fed about respective countries of origin.

Edited January 25, 2019 by blitze
Another brain fart.