Parachutes as a Loadout option

[Guest deleted@83466]

10 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

The only place parachutes make even the remotest sense is in an off-line campaign.  In multiplayer they are utterly superfluous.  The Refly button is the only parachute you need and the last time I looked that was available to both sides.  For the effect they have on combat outcomes they make no difference.  The aggressor gets a kill regardless of whether the victim going down as a flaming comet or on the end of a bit of silk and as for the victim, they just hit the restart button.  Anyone arguing about purity of experience would presumably happily uninstall the game and never fly again or better still have their wife, or partner, hit them over the head with a frying pan, the force dependant on severity of ingame injury.

 

I'll be glad to argue about the 'purity' of the experience.  Have you never heard of "virtual life" in these games?  There are a lot of people who take pride in racking up streaks, and for that to happen, your virtual pilot has to keep on living (and not get captured).  I hope that the people who care so little about virtual survival that they don't even want a parachute should probably just make sure they're sticking to the fast food/furball servers, even when alternatives exist. 

[BraveSirRobin]

10 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

The only place parachutes make even the remotest sense is in an off-line campaign.  In multiplayer they are utterly superfluous.  The Refly button is the only parachute you need and the last time I looked that was available to both sides.  For the effect they have on combat outcomes they make no difference.  The aggressor gets a kill regardless of whether the victim going down as a flaming comet or on the end of a bit of silk and as for the victim, they just hit the restart button.  Anyone arguing about purity of experience would presumably happily uninstall the game and never fly again or better still have their wife, or partner, hit them over the head with a frying pan, the force dependant on severity of ingame injury.

 

Sorry, but that is nonsense.  Lots of people in MP take their survival very seriously.

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by BraveSirRobin

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, Novice-Flyer said:

As far as I know (AFAIK), parachutes in WW1 were primarily used by the spotters in the observation balloons; only in the last few months of the war did the German pilots primarily use parachutes. Therefore, parachutes were not a thing to almost all WWI pilots.

 

It would help if you started reading with page 1 of this topic, instead of just jumping in here and making ill-informed comments. 

[BornToBattle]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:56 PM, West said:

Like parachutes as now available here in FC are in fact an historical aberration I do not see the reason why they should not be an available option for both sides, Central and Allies alike?

Agreed. Keep it historical and real.

Edited February 24, 2019 by BornToBattle

[=IRFC=Gecko]

 

I have no real issues with parachutes being an option for German players as long as the following conditions apply.

 

1. The parachutes have the correct failure rate applied.

2. Correct weight penalties are applied when used.

3. They can only be used from the correct in-service time line.

4. When a pilot bails out they remain in the chute until they hit the ground - If they bail at 15000ft then they get to enjoy the view for the duration (unless the get shot and killed while in the chute).

 

Regards Shot

 

 

[LukeFF]

7 hours ago, BornToBattle said:

Agreed. Keep it historical and real.

 

And, "historical and real" in this context means no parachutes for the Allies.

[Cynic_Al]

5 hours ago, =TM=I_Got_Shot said:

 

I have no real issues with parachutes being an option for German players as long as the following conditions apply.

 

..............

 

 

5. Non-parachute pilots have the capability to bale-out anyway, culminating in a gratifying splat at the end of it.

[J2_Trupobaw]

9 hours ago, Cynic_Al said:

 

5. Non-parachute pilots have the capability to bale-out anyway, culminating in a gratifying splat at the end of it.

That's already implemented. Great fun.

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

15 hours ago, =TM=I_Got_Shot said:

 

I have no real issues with parachutes being an option for German players as long as the following conditions apply.

 

1. The parachutes have the correct failure rate applied.

2. Correct weight penalties are applied when used.

3. They can only be used from the correct in-service time line.

4. When a pilot bails out they remain in the chute until they hit the ground - If they bail at 15000ft then they get to enjoy the view for the duration (unless the get shot and killed while in the chute).

 

Regards Shot

 

 

 

Allied players will have little need for chutes as the vast majority will be flying Camels.

[Zooropa_Fly]

1 hour ago, Klugermann said:

 

Allied players will have little need for chutes as the vast majority will be flying Camels.

 

As is currently the case on RoF 'dogfight' servers.

It's still the go-to Allied fighter, and probably always will be.. for all out dogfighting that is.

 

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

It's still the go-to Allied fighter, and probably always will be.. for all out dogfighting that is.

As it was back then as well.

[SP1969]

Not that one had the choice, of course. One flew what one was bloody well given.

 

If I'd had the choice, I'd have taken my SLR to the Gulf, not the malfunctioning, short ranged pop gun they gave me.

[Chill31]

On 2/13/2019 at 4:59 PM, SeaW0lf said:

 

I think it was more about the wear and tear, no power output, but Vintage Aviator is the only people out there that do not answer any queries ? (I made two over the years). But I have received wonderful and detailed information from various airman. I think they all love to talk about their rides, which they built with such passion (I would too).

I did some research on those failure of rotary engines.  Steel should be able to hold the cylinder on to more than 1700 rpm, though I didn't account for the heating from a running engine.  So not likely that the cylinder will fly off. 

 

More likely is this....after discussing with an old time rotary guy...the steel will stretch and deform prior to failure which will result in the cylinder being longer than it should be. The valve pushrod will not change length due to it's fliexible attachment. The over all effect is that over revving would likely result in significant power loss due miss timed intake and exhaust valves.  Would it cause complete failure? I don't know, but it is certainly possible.

[SeaW0lf]

1 hour ago, Chill31 said:

I did some research on those failure of rotary engines.  Steel should be able to hold the cylinder on to more than 1700 rpm, though I didn't account for the heating from a running engine.  So not likely that the cylinder will fly off. 

 

More likely is this....after discussing with an old time rotary guy...the steel will stretch and deform prior to failure which will result in the cylinder being longer than it should be. The valve pushrod will not change length due to it's fliexible attachment. The over all effect is that over revving would likely result in significant power loss due miss timed intake and exhaust valves.  Would it cause complete failure? I don't know, but it is certainly possible.

 

Cool, thanks! I would never have guessed. Does this happen in flight or over time?

[HiIIBiIIy]

11 hours ago, Chill31 said:

I did some research on those failure of rotary engines.  Steel should be able to hold the cylinder on to more than 1700 rpm, though I didn't account for the heating from a running engine.  So not likely that the cylinder will fly off. 

 

More likely is this....after discussing with an old time rotary guy...the steel will stretch and deform prior to failure which will result in the cylinder being longer than it should be. The valve pushrod will not change length due to it's fliexible attachment. The over all effect is that over revving would likely result in significant power loss due miss timed intake and exhaust valves.  Would it cause complete failure? I don't know, but it is certainly possible.

More likely over revving would result in bent push-rods do to centrifugal force holding the valves shut.  

[Cynic_Al]

On 2/13/2019 at 3:13 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

OTOH, current Dr.I and D.IIIa FMs perform as if they already counted the weight of the parachute.

 

Could we have a link to that claim from the developers?

[J2_Trupobaw]

As soon as they make it, it's my own evaluation of performance. I'm not saying that the underperformance in game is conciously designed to represent the parachute weitght... it just happens to match it. 

[Cynic_Al]

 

5 minutes ago, J2_Trupobaw said:

 I'm not saying that the underperformance in game is conciously designed to represent the parachute weitght... it just happens to match it. 

 

I won't ask to see the working of your calculation.

[SeaW0lf]

The current Fokker Dr.1 is the nerfed one from ROF. It has nothing to do with parachutes as far as I know. These planes have a pattern when ported to BOX and the Dr.1 is on the ballpark. If they added a chute, it apparently made little to no difference.

 

From what I recall, someone said that these planes were made that way (already counting the parachute) since the inception back in the days.

 

The D.IIIa has a strong possibility to have been rolled back to pre 2014 patch after we mentioned its speed here in BOX. The speed is spot on if we take into account the few km/h the planes are gaining in BOX. 

[Chill31]

8 hours ago, HiIIBiIIy said:

More likely over revving would result in bent push-rods do to centrifugal force holding the valves shut.  

The intake valve on a Le Rhone is pulled open by the pushrod. Only the exhaust valve is pushed open. At high RPM that could be a possibility it would cause damage to the push rod. 

 

I guess the bottom line is failure would probably result in power loss or rough running vs instant seizure.

[Cynic_Al]

2 hours ago, Chill31 said:

The intake valve on a Le Rhone is pulled open by the pushrod. Only the exhaust valve is pushed open. At high RPM that could be a possibility it would cause damage to the push rod. 

 

 

Centripetal force stops things going-off at a tangent and this thread could have done with some. However since we're here, the same force acting on the valves would also act along the line of the pushrod, thereby aiding its outward movement and reducing its tendency to bend. The same force would tend to compress the valve spring, reducing the force needed to open the valve. There are many considerations which perhaps could be resolved only using high-speed photography.

[Cynic_Al]

On 2/18/2019 at 11:17 PM, SeaSerpent said:

 

 There are a lot of people who take pride in racking up streaks, and for that to happen, your virtual pilot has to keep on living (and not get captured).  I hope that the people who care so little about virtual survival that they don't even want a parachute should probably just make sure they're sticking to the fast food/furball servers, even when alternatives exist. 

 

By contrast the types you describe would do well to stay away from furball servers, not for their sake but for that of others and the game itself. A few weeks ago there was one such obsessive in a furball server of a related game, apparently trying to build a 100 streak and there's nothing wrong with that. It soon became clear that his tactics were to climb to altitude in a superior plane while avoiding any credible opposition, then simply make boom and zoom attacks on single-seaters before climbing to safety. Apart from demonstrating the meaninglessness of combat statistics, there's nothing wrong with that either; my problem was that whenever I joined and got anywhere near a position to challenge him, he promptly left. The first two or three times I had to put it down to unfortunate timing, however when it continued happening I began to get suspicious. Eventually while he was occupied I managed to get onto even terms with him, only for him to spot my icon and say in the chat something very much like: "looks like there's bad news nearby, the AI doesn't fly this high" , at which point he made a panicked descent and landing.

Reluctant to take such an insult to myself and the community, I don't regret ending his 97 streak by foul means, nor of not seeing his name in there since. Parachutes or anything else that may encourage such an attitude, we do not need.

[Guest deleted@83466]

"By contrast the types you describe would do well to stay away from furball servers, not for their sake but for that of others and the game itself. "

 

No disagreements with that.  I think for the most part they will stay away from those servers.  Most of the people that I knew that were serious about getting kill streaks didn't go into the furball/icon servers very often and when they did, they were just furballing along with everyone else, certainly not concerned with any kind of streak.  Imo, a furball server is no place to be caring about virtual lives.  The guy you're talking about, well, I think he might be an oddity.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2019 by SeaSerpent

[Voidhunger]

On 2/25/2019 at 2:43 PM, J2_Trupobaw said:

That's already implemented. Great fun.

it would be nice if the AI also bail out also

[BMA_West]

3 hours ago, Voidhunger said:

it would be nice if the AI also bail out also

 

I have seen them do just that when shot to bits, Boches only of course;