Pimax5K+ vs. Oculus Rift: Spot, ID & Gauges through lens

[coconut]

A new version of PiTool came out today. First time I tried it and it's great. It made IL-2 super-smooth.

 

2 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Since I am very happy with the Odyssey + ,  after reading how is working and many others, I just cancelled my Pre order for the Pimax 5K

 

Cancel your cancellation! Just joking... It's starting to grow on me, but my earlier remarks still hold: I can get pretty much the same level of clarity with the Rift. What's better is the SDE, which is there but less bothering, and the wide FOV. The problem with framerates I had is now solved with Brainwarp.

 

Another trick SweViver mentioned is to increase the pre-rendered VR frames in NVidia Control Panel: This also improved smoothness. I'm not sure it's compatible with BW though. I know it had no positive effect on the Rift for me.

Edited February 27, 2019 by coconut

[SCG_motoadve]

3 minutes ago, coconut said:

A new version of PiTool came out today. First time I tried it and it's great. It made IL-2 super-smooth.

 

 

Cancel your cancellation! Just joking... It's starting to grow on me, but my earlier remarks still hold: I can get pretty much the same level of clarity with the Rift. What's better is the SDE, which is there but less bothering, and the wide FOV. The problem with framerates I head is now solved with Brainwarp.

 

Another trick SweViver mentioned is to increase the pre-rendered VR frames in NVidia Control Panel: This also improved smoothness. I'm not sure it's compatible with BW though. I know it had no positive effect on the Rift for me.

Same clarity as Rift, why? isnt is supposed to have more resolution?

Odyssey+ has much better resolution than Rift, and its smooth and comfortable (now that I installed an aftermarket velour).

 

Cost a third of what the Pimax costs.

[coconut]

13 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Same clarity as Rift, why? isnt is supposed to have more resolution?

Rift is 1200 lines IIRC, 5K+ is 1440. Not sure about the vertical FOV, but if the 5K+ has a higher FOV, then that would cancel the moderate advantage it has in resolution.

Edited February 27, 2019 by coconut

[dburne]

55 minutes ago, coconut said:

A new version of PiTool came out today. First time I tried it and it's great. It made IL-2 super-smooth.

 

 

Cancel your cancellation! Just joking... It's starting to grow on me, but my earlier remarks still hold: I can get pretty much the same level of clarity with the Rift. What's better is the SDE, which is there but less bothering, and the wide FOV. The problem with framerates I head is now solved with Brainwarp.

 

Another trick SweViver mentioned is to increase the pre-rendered VR frames in NVidia Control Panel: This also improved smoothness. I'm not sure it's compatible with BW though. I know it had no positive effect on the Rift for me.

 

Strangely enough I hardly even notice the SDE when flying IL-2 with my Rift. Certainly in some other games I do, depends on the game.

I think we all have differences as to what we perceive.

Edited February 27, 2019 by dburne

[TWHYata_PL]

3 hours ago, coconut said:

Rift is 1200 lines IIRC, 5K+ is 1440. Not sure about the vertical FOV, but if the 5K+ has a higher FOV, then that would cancel the moderate advantage it has in resolution.

 

3 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Same clarity as Rift, why? isnt is supposed to have more resolution?

Odyssey+ has much better resolution than Rift, and its smooth and comfortable (now that I installed an aftermarket velour).

 

Cost a third of what the Pimax costs.

Pimax 5k+ vs Odyssey +
5120x1440 vs 2880x1600

7.372800 pixels / 170 fov minus overlap & pixels utilization
vs
4.608000 pixels / 100 fov, minus overlap & pixels utilization

100/170 ° is horizontal, so we take into account horizontally pixels and in both HMD's we are subtracting  1/3 for binocular overlap and screen utilization
(ppd = pixel per degree)
1440/100 = ~ 14.5 ppd (Vive & Rift)
1920/100 = ~ 19 ppd odyssey
3413/170 = ~ 20 ppd pimax 5k

 

In addition, Pimax 5k has ~ 33% more subpixels (pen-tile vs vertical RGB) and diametrically better lenses so imho everything looks clearer/sharper

 

Samsung will get only a better SDE thanks to the sde filter.

 

Pimax colors = no issue here thanks to 3DMigoto mod and possibility to modify saturation 

 

(editing user var initialization.ini gives me Rift color level

;-----------------------------
; Color changes
;-----------------------------
[ResourceColorChange]
type = StructuredBuffer
array = 1
data = R32_FLOAT +0.05 +1.00 +0.85 +0.00 +1.00 +0.85 +0.05 +1.00 +0.55 +0.05 +1.00 +0.85
;                ^Cockpit 1      ^|^External 1     ^|^Cockpit 2      ^|^External 2     ^
;                Add    Mul   Sat   Add    Mul   Sat  Add    Mul   Sat   Add    Mul   Sat
;                 New color.RGB = Sat.RGB(oldColor)*RGB(Mul,Mul,Mul) + RGB(Add,Add, Add)

Edited February 27, 2019 by TWHYata_PL

[SCG_motoadve]

Something is odd.

In the specs Pimax 5K should have more resolution than Odyssey +

 

But the reviews I see say the image quality of the O + is better.

 

 

[blitze]

There is always the Pimax 8K but really, we all are still waiting for something like the 8K but without the 1440p to 4K upscaler.  Oh and the GPU tech to drive it.  Then wide FOV, and clarity will be a winner.

 

Still, the 8K is floating my boat - I could be lying as ascertained to by one here in the VR section but hey - what ever. ?

[LLv24_Zami]

10 hours ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Something is odd.

In the specs Pimax 5K should have more resolution than Odyssey +

 

But the reviews I see say the image quality of the O + is better.

 

I can`t say that I agree with the pics in that review.  Pimax looks better to me, sharp and clear. O+ looks more blurry in comparison.

[coconut]

11 hours ago, TWHYata_PL said:

1440/100 = ~ 14.5 ppd (Vive & Rift)
1920/100 = ~ 19 ppd odyssey
3413/170 = ~ 20 ppd pimax 5k

 

I think there are too many unknowns in the horizontal field of view to get reliable values. Where did you get panel utilization and binocular overlap values?

Much simpler in my opinion is to use the vertical dimension, that gets rid of binocular overlap.

     |   80 |   90 |  100
Rift |   15 |   13 |   12
5k+  |   18 |   16 |   14

This table above gives you the pixels per degree for each headset, for 3 possible values of FOV. The Rift is said to have 80 or 90 vertical FOV, depending on eye distance to the lenses.

Assuming the Rift has 90 and the 5k+ has 100, we find values that are very close: 13 for the Rift and 14 for the 5k+

[chiliwili69]

17 hours ago, coconut said:

A new version of PiTool came out today. First time I tried it and it's great. It made IL-2 super-smooth.

 

Good to know the new PiTool solved you issues. It seems this Brainwarp is only for RTX cards. 

I don´t know if the Brainwarp tech included fixed foveat rendering or they just dropped in this new release.

Let´s see if in future they support previous 10x series cards, otherwise we will need to upgrade  ?

 

I also saw your i5-4960K CPU, according to previous test you did I think you run it at 4.5 with a STMark of 2636.

Although your GPU will be the bottleneck with higher SS values, your CPU will always help in the fps. 

I remember that CPU was not performing particularly well (delivering a less that expected fps). Having a Pimax5K and a 2080, your CPU is now the weakest item.

[TWHYata_PL]

2 hours ago, coconut said:

I think there are too many unknowns in the horizontal field of view to get reliable values. Where did you get panel utilization and binocular overlap values?

 

It dosn't matter - its moreless fair calcution becouse I substracted 33 % pixels for all headsets so PPD will be the same even If I will not ..

31 minutes ago, chiliwili69 said:

Good to know the new PiTool solved you issues. It seems this Brainwarp is only for RTX cards. 

 

Its for all cards. Fixed Fovated Redering was removed in this PiTool ver.

Well I bought Asuss Strix RTX 2080 Ti  a month ago . Currently during RMA process becouse of faulty DDR6 Mikron memory so cant test yet.

2 hours ago, coconut said:

Much simpler in my opinion is to use the vertical dimension, that gets rid of binocular overlap.

Its not becouse Pimax is "strong" in horizontal Pixels (5120) and subpixels (RBG strip) and your way is not showing his real potential vs O+

Edited February 28, 2019 by TWHYata_PL

[coconut]

1 hour ago, chiliwili69 said:

Having a Pimax5K and a 2080, your CPU is now the weakest item.

Absolutely, I'll be upgrading soon. I think I can wait a few months to see if what AMD has to offer might be worth considering. There are rumors their next gen of CPUs (is it Ryzen 3?) might be competitive also in the single-threaded department. It might also be just rumors and vapourware...

 

1 hour ago, TWHYata_PL said:

Its not becouse Pimax is "strong" in horizontal Pixels (5120) and subpixels (RBG strip) and your way is not showing his real potential vs O+

 

I have made more tests with DCS, which does not require parallel projection. In that setting, the 5k+ is a clear winner. The combination of RGB strip, wider sweet spot and fewer God rays make things substantially better in the gauge and label readability department. I don't know if these results can be reproduced with IL-2, parallel projection might be an obstacle.

 

Unfortunately, I also have to say I'm feeling a bit queasy after all these tests. It might be that 60FPS, even smooth, might not be enough for me for a flight sim.

[dburne]

20 minutes ago, coconut said:

I have made more tests with DCS, which does not require parallel projection. In that setting, the 5k+ is a clear winner. The combination of RGB strip, wider sweet spot and fewer God rays make things substantially better in the gauge and label readability department. I don't know if these results can be reproduced with IL-2, parallel projection might be an obstacle.

 

Unfortunately, I also have to say I'm feeling a bit queasy after all these tests. It might be that 60FPS, even smooth, might not be enough for me for a flight sim.

 

Yeah there is a reason Oculus and HTC determined 90 HZ to be the ideal for VR and why they have software tech to achieve this even at lower fps.

That is not to say some can not achieve good results at less as obviously many do, but for others it gets to them.

When it comes to this, YMMV very much applies.

Edited February 28, 2019 by dburne

[TWHYata_PL]

7 hours ago, dburne said:

Yeah there is a reason Oculus and HTC determined 90 HZ to be the ideal for VR and why they have software tech to achieve this even at lower fps.

controlers movement ( vive wands, oculus touch) that's main reasons for 90 hz, seated games with stable 80 or even 72hz modes are good enough 

[chiliwili69]

On 2/28/2019 at 11:14 AM, chiliwili69 said:

It seems this Brainwarp is only for RTX cards. 

I don´t know if the Brainwarp tech included fixed foveat rendering or they just dropped in this new release.

Let´s see if in future they support previous 10x series cards, otherwise we will need to upgrade  ?

 

I wanted to say FFR in brainwarp section.

In the beta version it only appeared the FFR if you have a RTX card. This was the beta:

 

And the new release is not without FFR:

 

So for now no difference if the card is GTX or RTX.

 

Perhaps they will introduce FFR again in future releases.

[Alonzo]

On 2/27/2019 at 8:58 AM, coconut said:

A new version of PiTool came out today. First time I tried it and it's great. It made IL-2 super-smooth.

 

Any idea what they changed/added?

Edited March 2, 2019 by Alonzo

[coconut]

1 hour ago, Alonzo said:

Any idea what they changed/added?

Oculus-style asynchronous reprojection, and the ability to set the refresh rate to 64 FPS or 72 FPS. 64FPS makes me sick, but 72 works well.

So nothing new compared to the Brainwarp beta release. They actually dropped fixed foveated rendering.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Does setting refreshrate 64Hz lead to smaller rendering of the ingame environment and thus warped vision?

 

It does so on the Windows Mixed Reality series, if you set it to 60Hz.

 

P.S. Only happens in IL-2, other games do not have this problem.

[TWHYata_PL]

Pitool 1.0.1.111 Beta Test Release for Brainwarp 1.0

Beta Test Release link:

http://pisetup.pimaxvr.com/PiToolSetup_1.0.1.111_beta.exe 27

PLEASE MUST DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL THE LATEST NVIDIA DRIVER！OR THE HEADSET WON’T CONNECT

Release notes:

1. Solve the crash issues in some Oculus games.

2. Solve the low resolution issues in some Oculus games.

3. Solve the issues that some Oculus games will pop up the dxdiag UI when they start.

4. Open FFR (Support RTX Series only)

[=ILS=_ppph]

somehow, my experience with PIMAX 5K+ is mixed, good with FOV all that, but the clarity is not that great, when you look out from your cockpit, it feels blurry and fuzzy somehow. I am not sure what happened here, anyone share the same feeling?

[TUS_Samuel]

On 3/2/2019 at 2:36 PM, coconut said:

64FPS makes me sick, but 72 works well

What about motion blur? Do they disable strobing at this frequencies? One reason to have 90 Hz refresh rate is strobing being invisible to people. On the other hand 60Hz with strobing may lead to some discomfort like bleeding eyes and head explosion.

[JonRedcorn]

On 3/2/2019 at 12:11 PM, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Does setting refreshrate 64Hz lead to smaller rendering of the ingame environment and thus warped vision?

 

It does so on the Windows Mixed Reality series, if you set it to 60Hz.

 

P.S. Only happens in IL-2, other games do not have this problem.

Yeah this is super weird and disappointing, as I tried to use 60hz mode with no ill effects on my stomach and the game was really smooth, except everything looked tiny. I wonder if editing the ipd or something in the startup file could give the original scale back?

Edited March 14, 2019 by JonRedcorn