keep spinning on ground

[lesthegringo]

Guys, I have tried using differential braking, throttles, the rudder pedals, slow throttle movements, fast throttle movements, gentle acceleration, fast acceleration...... nothing. Every time, at about 10 km/h the aircraft keeps spinning like a top.

 

What are we doing wrong?

 

Cheers

 

Les

[-TBC-AeroAce]

RPM?

What plane?

[40plus]

Which planes? Is your tail wheel locked? 

 

I took a lot of practice for me at first but it becomes natural after time.

[54th_Glitter_]

Check  rpm is 100%

[CIA_Yankee_]

This is called ground looping, and is pretty common in tail draggers.

 

Basically, the way to avoid this is to use your rudder and differential braking to keep straight, and to do it quickly and aggressively (though not too long, or you'll start looping in the other direction). Also, you want to keep some airflow on your rudder so it can be effective (something like 20% throttle at least).

 

Beyond that it's all a question of which aircraft you're using. Different aircraft have different methods of differential braking, and of controlling the tail wheel.

 

For example, in a Yak-1, you manually lock and unlock the tailwheel (using SHIFT-G). Keep it locked unless you want to make a really sharp turn. And differential braking is done by pushing the rudder in one direction while holding down the brakes (basically there is only a single lever for the brake, and there's a mechanism that applies differential braking based on the rudder pedal position).

 

Hope this helps.

[lesthegringo]

Mostly with the He-111 abd Ju88. I wanted to set up the toe brakes on the Saitek pro pedals, but each side says left and right, so I left the comma and period keys as per default. They don't seem to do anything  though

 

Cheers 

 

Les

[JimTM]

Try this tip: As soon as you start a turn, start stopping it.

[Godspeed]

I bet answer for your problem is RPM

[Ribbon]

57 minutes ago, lesthegringo said:

Mostly with the He-111 abd Ju88. I wanted to set up the toe brakes on the Saitek pro pedals, but each side says left and right, so I left the comma and period keys as per default. They don't seem to do anything  though

 

Cheers 

 

Les

Ah it's RPM.....default setting is zero, increase it to 100% on takeoff, once airborne lower it to 60-90% depends on the aircraft

[lesthegringo]

Certainly tge RPM control has helped - we reassigned ii to an axis, which helped as we could actually see it being annunciated 

 

We also had another go at reassigning the toe brakes, which also helped. Still lots of fishtailing, but at least we get to the end of tge runway now!

 

Thanks for the help

 

Ps, this has made me determined to try every control to see what can and what can't be assigned to an analogue axis

 

Les

[vino]

I have this problem with spitfire. When the loop starts, nothing can stop it... 

[Guest deleted@134347]

18 minutes ago, vino said:

I have this problem with spitfire. When the loop starts, nothing can stop it... 

 

you gotta play those rudder pedals like a guitar.. ?

 

continuous small corrections ..left right.. right right.. left left.. etc..

[-TBC-AeroAce]

1 hour ago, vino said:

I have this problem with spitfire. When the loop starts, nothing can stop it... 

 

I defo ground loop the MK 5 when landing a lot. It seems to have less margin of Yaw angle it can recover from compared other planes. Take off and taxi on the other hand is fine.

[danielprates]

Right after touch down, its easy to think it is "mission acomplished" and relax on the rudder controls.... the result is going to be a spin on some of the more unforgiving planes. The spinning can even easily overcome the rudder's control authority....differential brakes can set it right though, if used in just small taps - hold them too long and you will pylon your nose into the ground.

[lesthegringo]

Yep, the RPM was definitely a factor, much better now; thanks guys

 

I can see that I have managed to set the toe brake up properly too which also helps. Still a steep learning curve though!

 

Cheers

Les

[Docjonel]

I had a big problem with this too when I was getting started. Some tail draggers also lock the tail wheel by pulling back on the stick. Pull back on the stick as you start rolling, then once you get some forward ground speed  you can push the stick forward and use the rudder to keep the nose straight. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Docjonel

[-TBC-AeroAce]

42 minutes ago, Docjonel said:

I had a big problem with this too when I was getting started. Some tail draggers also lock the tail wheel by pulling back on the stick. Pull back on the stick as you start rolling, then once you get some forward ground speed  you can push the stick forward and use the rudder to keep the nose straight. 

Fyi only the 190s lock the tail wheel when you pull the stick back but it is generally a good thing to do while taxiing any tail drager aircraft.

Edited January 5, 2019 by AeroAce

[danielprates]

8 hours ago, AeroAce said:

but it is generally a good thing to do while taxiing any tail drager aircraft.

 

 That is right, the elevator will twist down the tail against the ground and generate more drag on the tailwheel. Makes fishtailing harder, and hence rudder controls become more effective. The higher the speed, the stronger the effect. The danger in doing this in a landing is thinking you have less lift than you actually have, and by doing this, climb right back again. You will quickly stall and come back hard enough to ruin your plane.

Edited January 5, 2019 by danielprates

[Docjonel]

9 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Fyi only the 190s lock the tail wheel when you pull the stick back but it is generally a good thing to do while taxiing any tail drager aircraft.

 

Ah, thanks for the info!

[Japsai]

I'm having the same problem when landing Spitfire.  I have managed to get the hang of taxiing, take-offs, landing approach and flare/touchdown, but I just cant stop the bugger from ground looping when slowing down after touchdown, no matter how quickly & carefully I react with rudders and how lightly I touch/stab the brakes

 

I am using a cheap Thrustmaster HOTAS Flight Stick X with the joystick twist axis for rudder control.  Any thoughts on whether a set of pedals would help me with more precise and proactive use of rudder?

[Dagwoodyt]

11 minutes ago, biffa66 said:

I'm having the same problem when landing Spitfire.  I have managed to get the hang of taxiing, take-offs, landing approach and flare/touchdown, but I just cant stop the bugger from ground looping when slowing down after touchdown, no matter how quickly & carefully I react with rudders and how lightly I touch/stab the brakes

 

I am using a cheap Thrustmaster HOTAS Flight Stick X with the joystick twist axis for rudder control.  Any thoughts on whether a set of pedals would help me with more precise and proactive use of rudder?

Without question rudder pedals would help, but there is no free lunch. If buying pedals it is best to buy the best you can afford. Likewise the best quality  joystick will also help. The VKB Gladiator Mkii stick and pedals come to mind as least expensive options in that regard. When I last checked they were readily available from Xplane.org. Flight sims are not an inexpensive hobby. Hopefully you are making use of rudder and elevator trim. The Spitfire will likely always be a challenge for me. If I fly another aircraft I always have to relearn the Spit when I go back to it. If I remember correctly it doesn't want to have heavy back pressure on the stick when landing so I think I use max up elevator trim during landing and let tail settle gradually. I think Lagg and Mig 3 OTOH want heavy back pressure immediately on landing. I don't normally fly Axis but I recall the 109 was so easy to land I quickly became bored with it. In any case they all have individual characteristics that must be learned. I use VR exclusively. So far as I am concerned VR offers a huge benefit in learning to handle aircraft in this sim. If you have ever done takeoffs and landings IRL you will immediately appreciate that.

[wombatBritishBulldogs]

You've nailed the landing gentle back pressure, level ailerons  Rudder rudder rudder small inputs left and right till stopped and i mean till stopped .

[-TBC-AeroAce]

12 hours ago, wombatBritishBulldogs said:

You've nailed the landing gentle back pressure, level ailerons  Rudder rudder rudder small inputs left and right till stopped and i mean till stopped .

 

^^^ This.

 

With the spit I find you need to stay on the brakes until stopped.  Also full up trim is a bad idea IMO. You don't need more than about 40%.

Edited January 9, 2019 by AeroAce