AI improved after 3.007?

[nervenklau]

Come back to the kuban career 1st time yesterday after AI upgrade. I am really shocked by the deterioration of AI, got 2 to 3 AI 109s losse in every sotie, comparing less than 1 lose before the AI update. AI 109 just crashes to ground when it is trying to attack an il2 in splitS, crashes in to oeacon when flying low and slow to attack a low altitude flying il2 without rear gunner. as long as mingle with yaks or Laggs, all AI 109s are end up with horizontal low level turn with VVS fighter at their 6, no matter they have altitude advantage initially. current AI bugs makes the single play of this game totally unenjoyful.

[blitze]

Wow, I must try flying Blue team again and see how recent patches effect things.  They were terrible earlier but fighting them now seems as though they have learned a few tricks.

 

Must return to the Kuban or at least Stalingrad on the Blue side.

[LukeFF]

Read the update notes, and you'll see where the AI was improved.

[Dagwoodyt]

QMB: La5 with one vet AI wingie vs. 2 vet 109 F4 AI. I ask wingie to cover me. I break low, followed by 109’s. Seems now (3.009) they almost invariably smash my canopy on first hit. Anyway, one 109 lawn darts. I am left to fight the remaining F4 down low. Wingie nowhere to be seen. Apparently in response to another “cover me” request my wingie comes down from orbit and instead of positioning on my six, flies out front of remaining F4 who obliges by lighting wingie up. Wingie then bails at low altitude and dies from the fall. I maneuver on the deck between hills till the remaining F4 lawn darts. Given similar experiences in QMB I cannot imagine spending time in career mode. I am not criticizing the team’s efforts to improve AI. I am just unable to convince myself that the  command system is functional. The detailed CEM, VR and graphic artwork implementations hold my interest even just doing circuits around airfields but beyond those attractions the series holds little promise for increasing depth of immersion. I think that many followers of the series are just looking for a statement as to a vision for the series relative to AI. Can a second graphics card address AI routines, help AI “learn” player behavior and respond accordingly? Or are we in an intractable situation in which such advances are possible but can never be implemented because there will never be cash flow sufficient to hire programmers who could make it happen? 

[JonRedcorn]

5 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

QMB: La5 with one vet AI wingie vs. 2 vet 109 F4 AI. I ask wingie to cover me. I break low, followed by 109’s. Seems now (3.009) they almost invariably smash my canopy on first hit. Anyway, one 109 lawn darts. I am left to fight the remaining F4 down low. Wingie nowhere to be seen. Apparently in response to another “cover me” request my wingie comes down from orbit and instead of positioning on my six, flies out front of remaining F4 who obliges by lighting wingie up. Wingie then bails at low altitude and dies from the fall. I maneuver on the deck between hills till the remaining F4 lawn darts. Given similar experiences in QMB I cannot imagine spending time in career mode. I am not criticizing the team’s efforts to improve AI. I am just unable to convince myself that the  command system is functional. The detailed CEM, VR and graphic artwork implementations hold my interest even just doing circuits around airfields but beyond those attractions the series holds little promise for increasing depth of immersion. I think that many followers of the series are just looking for a statement as to a vision for the series relative to AI. Can a second graphics card address AI routines, help AI “learn” player behavior and respond accordingly? Or are we in an intractable situation in which such advances are possible but can never be implemented because there will never be cash flow sufficient to hire programmers who could make it happen? 

I'd very much like to know why you chose to write that post in such an incredibly tiny font.

 

Thanks.

[Willy__]

If you wanna play the career, expect your squadmates die or lawndart every mission. I think there were some updates on the AI but not what people were expecting, because the ai's still broken af, they are either cyborgs with perfect aim or they dont hit anything at all, let alone the lawndarting stuff.

[blitze]

Yeah - Sorry Willy_ not my experience of AI at all.  They do not lawndart or die every mission.

 

Also finding AI now will try to disengage if shot up and they will try to either head back to base or land ASAP.  They seem to have some sense of self preservation in combat compared to earlier where they would fight to the death in planes about to disintegrate around them.

 

Really enjoying the career over Moscow as a il2 pilot and also my 109 F2 pilot over Stalingrad.

[taffy2jeffmorgan]

I know that updates are essential and 3.007 was no exception but there is a little price to pay !  my inflight recordings since 3.007 have been corrupted, visually they are fine but the sound is all garbled, have test recorded since update and all is correct. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by taffy2jeffmorgan

[NETSCAPE]

On 12/24/2018 at 8:09 PM, 392FS_Jred said:

I'd very much like to know why you chose to write that post in such an incredibly tiny font.

 

Thanks.

 

Put on your glasses. 

[sevenless]

Hard to tell. In my 109 career I seem to have some natural born killers, and in my 190 career all of my squad mates seem to struggle.

 

109:

 

 

190:

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by sevenless

[Dagwoodyt]

QMB: Lagg3 vs. 109 F2 Ace AI
Lengthy fight, I finally get advantage scoring multiple hits on target. 109 streams fluids but I glance at my fuel gauge and mistakenly think I might be leaking fuel. I am out of ammo anyway. I nose down and exit at 460 kph thinking the 109 will run out of fuel and/or coolant before he can catch me. No, the 109 is following as I approach an airfield. The 109 is on my six as I do a shallow right turn. Thankfully, he soon crash lands. In replay the 109 is full of damage decals and missing its rudder. I don't know why AI would not function as well in a 1v1 QMB as it would in a career.

[WheelwrightPL]

39 minutes ago, Dagwoodyt said:

QMB: Lagg3 vs. 109 F2 Ace AI
Lengthy fight, I finally get advantage scoring multiple hits on target. 109 streams fluids but I glance at my fuel gauge and mistakenly think I might be leaking fuel. I am out of ammo anyway. I nose down and exit at 460 kph thinking the 109 will run out of fuel and/or coolant before he can catch me. No, the 109 is following as I approach an airfield. The 109 is on my six as I do a shallow right turn. Thankfully, he soon crash lands. In replay the 109 is full of damage decals and missing its rudder. I don't know why AI would not function as well in a 1v1 QMB as it would in a career.

 

Career has significantly more planes compared to QMB  which I assume requires AI to be dumbed down to be able to cope with all those units interacting in a realistic way.

I agree that if you want a real challenge you should pick QMB ACE difficulty:  although you're limited to 8 planes per side I think it is enough because more units would be taxing not only for the CPU but for the average human brain too, with the split second reaction time and supreme accuracy required to even keep up.

In QMB even the lowly I16 is a challenging opponent on ACE difficulty, I personally think that QBM AI is cheating.

 

[Livai]

Fighter vs Fighter = fine

Fighter vs Bomber = brainless if you fly fighter planes

Bomber vs Ground target = average

 

The Ai is indeed useless against bombers. The improved turret gunners shoot all of them down easily. I always see how the Ai slow down and  break off their attack 100m from bomber six just to play target practice for their turret gunners. Their aim against bomber is to shoot above or below the bomber and this at close range, again easy target practice for their turret gunners. Or the Ai play kamikaze hangs on bomber six until both go down. Bombers easily shoot down all of your Ai fighter planes. But here comes the funny part - what I really not understand this why the Ai behaviour depends on what plane you fly - I mean it only happends when you are the fighter pilot but if you are the bomber pilot the Ai fighter planes behave a lot better against bombers. Then the Ai ignore the Flight leader commands. There comes always a Ai message from nowhere that revoke your commands. You can repeat your commands how much like. You command " engage enemy target ". The Ai objective completed return to base. You repeat " engage enemy target ". The Ai request landing approach.

 

Overall it ends always with the same disappointment -> "On my own"

[Livai]

-> in a Nutshell explained " How is the Ai "

 

[JtD]

On 12/28/2018 at 11:22 AM, Livai said:

Fighter vs Fighter = fine

 

I don't really know how you arrive at that conclusion. The AI is predictable, stupid and unrealistic. It can still be a challenge to shoot down and fun to fight against, but it's far from fine. That's not so apparent in larger engagements because they are always quite chaotic. Imho, in several ways we've had better fighter AI in Il-2:1946. It had threat assessment and tactics included, something I fail to see in BoX.

[Godspeed]

AI Fighter vs AI bomber your Fighter Squadron is doomed because they just follow the bomber formation from back and get killed to gunners.

( One cant even hit the bomber enough to take them down even the bomber would not shoot back )

 

Even 110 tail gunner is enough to take enemy fighters down by flying straight line with autopilot.

One time i got no ammo enymore and head back to base and got three fighters against me.

My tail gunner took all them down.

 

My plane got few hits but mostly they could not even hit my plane on moderate.

 

Im really confused why they cant add difficulty level that all AI planes are ACE on both sides.

But doing so it would completely destroy 110 career since there are no escort fighters on bombing/ground attack missions with 110 career.

( But that would not matter mutch because i feel its broken anyway )

 

Escorting bomber missions you dont need to escort anything since bombers can kill every single fighter.

Its also not fun to see that one bomber has dropped its bombs on target and rest are flying back with them.

 

 

But really the AI is biggest problem and its killing my intrest slowly.

When bodenplatte is released i will ask steam keys like they promised on preorder.

 

Im not going to buy new expansions since i have plenty already.

AI and other career issues must be fixed before im ready to use more cash to this sim.

[Feathered_IV]

3 hours ago, JtD said:

 

I don't really know how you arrive at that conclusion. The AI is predictable, stupid and unrealistic. It can still be a challenge to shoot down and fun to fight against, but it's far from fine. That's not so apparent in larger engagements because they are always quite chaotic. Imho, in several ways we've had better fighter AI in Il-2:1946. It had threat assessment and tactics included, something I fail to see in BoX.

 

That's very true.  I went back to a fully patched 1946 and was amazed by what the AI could do.  BoX AI by comparison is a clay pigeon to practice deflection shooting in a right hand turn.

 

[sinned]

come on guys. resources and time  man.  hasnt this been diacussed to death?  stop beating dead horse!

 

now where is that gif guy?