APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Lets say a flight sim takes a average of 4 years in development,,, BOS should be released in 14 months (early 2014) That means BOS would be at 3/4 completed. At this point in development, we should have a lot of sreenshots available. So technically speaking, we should soon have plenty on nice screenies in the upcomming updates.... Unless BOS is not a conventionnal project, graphics would be greatly advanced at this stage... SAlute !
MineFewer Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 I wouldn't call it 3/4 completed until I see screenies showing all of Stalingrad in ruins.
AndyJWest Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 And the evidence that BoS has been in development for 3 years can be found where exactly? Talk about a failure of logic... 1 2
Jetlagg Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Four years isn't any magic number. The sim doesn't appear to be even 1/4 of the way finished let alone 3/4. Rise of Flight didn't take four years to develop, to pose an example.
DD_bongodriver Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 If you include the time ROF has been around then it's not such a failure of logic, BOS is after all going to be based on the DN engine, the dev update did establish that a Lagg-3 has already been tested for AI.
hiro Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 They have a working engine; a game engine is 60% min of dev time. Knowing the devs they wouldn't have given a timeline they couldn't meet. Also this game might have been planned and worked on well before we were told. And a lot of ground and idea has been done; remember it's 1c n Maddox and 777; only a whiner or an idiot would think the work done on il-2 , Clod and ROF wasn't retained. Also the devs will give us candy (media) of the game when they are ready. False assumptions were common in the north Korean dark of clod but not here w the dev dairy. We would do well to comment on what had been said not speculated
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 And the evidence that BoS has been in development for 3 years can be found where exactly? Talk about a failure of logic... Failure of MY logic ? Jason, a very experienced developper, anounced that BOS would be release early 2014. Unless you doubt his words, lets go on. SInce we all know that a sim is by definition a complex game to build, it is reasonnable to assume that it cannot escape the rules of experience: it takes roughly 4 years to build.( 6 for CLOD) Now...It will be released in about a year. That would make the game in its actual state at roughly 3/4 of its development time. Is my logic still ok at this point ? It is reasonnable to assume , at this stage, that many objects, planes and terrain would be graphically "showable". WIP...Scrennshots... If you think that a complex WWII flight sim can be build from scratch within 12 months, I would suggest that you revise your own logic... Salute !
AndyJWest Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Failure of MY logic ? Jason, a very experienced developper, anounced that BOS would be release early 2014. Unless you doubt his words, lets go on. SInce we all know that a sim is by definition a complex game to build, it is reasonnable to assume that it cannot escape the rules of experience: it takes roughly 4 years to build.( 6 for CLOD) Now...It will be released in about a year. That would make the game in its actual state at roughly 3/4 of its development time. Is my logic still ok at this point ? It is reasonnable to assume , at this stage, that many objects, planes and terrain would be graphically "showable". WIP...Scrennshots... If you think that a complex WWII flight sim can be build from scratch within 12 months, I would suggest that you revise your own logic... Salute ! Nope. It isn't 'reasonable to assume' what you are assuming, because (a) you provide no evidence to back up your assumption that it takes 4 years on average to produce a flight sim from scratch, (b ) 'on average', even if true, would only be an average, and © they aren't starting from scratch. Thus, a clear failure of logic... Edited January 12, 2013 by AndyJWest 1
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Nope. It isn't 'reasonable to assume' what you are assuming, because (a) you provide no evidence to back up your assumption that it takes 4 years on average to produce a flight sim from scratch, (b ) 'on average', even if true, would only be an average, and © they aren't starting from scratch. Thus, a clear failure of logic... Oh boy...And you talk about logic... A) What evidence ? How many sim developments have you "followed" since 2000 ? You would know it takes years to build. Meaning that 12 months from release, means almost completed.... B You are very logic here : an average is an average...Good argument from you here...Very constructive.Very logic. C)You admit it has not started from scratch....You know it will be released in one year ....That means it is ...what ? Far from being completed ? What is YOUR logic telling you ? 12 months from release...What do you conclude ? SAlute ! Edited January 12, 2013 by Kalimba
wiseblood Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 No you're right, you're the best and also you have the best "I reckon"s. That's top reckoning, that is. 2
AndyJWest Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Oh boy...And you talk about logic... A) What evidence ? How many sim developments have you "followed" since 2000 ? You would know it takes years to build. Meaning that 12 months from release, means almost completed.... B You are very logic here : an average is an average...Good argument from you here...Very constructive.Very logic. C)You admit it has not started from scratch....You know it will be released in one year ....That means it is ...what ? Far from being completed ? What is YOUR logic telling you ? 12 months from release...What do you conclude ? SAlute ! I conclude that you started this thread as a trolling exercise. Any more questions? 1
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 How come a friendly and simple post, hoping for something good for everyone here becomes such a unplaisant exchange of personnal attacks ? Why not reply with good ideas and opinions instead of bashing other's views on a situation ? If all one can do is insults other's intelligence rather than providing good arguments, he should pass on.
wiseblood Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 I think the first post was friendly and fine, it's the bit where people tried to tell you this wasn't really following the conventional development model for a flightsim and you dug in twice as hard. FWIW Loft has been all over the RU forums being a very humble guy telling people that they have an extraordinarily short development time for a big project like this and that many things can go wrong. That's actually one of the reasons I'm more confident they can pull it off than otherwise might be the case - they are perfectly well aware of how hard it is. WRT your expectations - there isn't really the conventional model of development that I can see. It's not the typical "build engine, lock down early, medium size team of asset creators get to work building compliant things". They start with some things 100% complete, some critical things 0% complete, and a larger team of asset creators (and pool of created assets) than you would ever normally choose to do. I think it's going to be a pretty weird ride for them.
71st_AH_Hooves Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 On the upside. The team now holds the best WWII. Game designers under one roof. And though it is only give or take a few months. Beginning 2014 id imagine is q1. So it can go to march. These guys have a plan, they know their abilities, if they say q1 we have n reason not to go with it. The dev diary says they are moving along meeting their goals. Im sorry mate, but if hou arent satisfied unless there are fresh screenshots delivered to you daily. Then you may wanna go follow a different project.
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 I think the first post was friendly and fine, it's the bit where people tried to tell you this wasn't really following the conventional development model for a flightsim and you dug in twice as hard. FWIW Loft has been all over the RU forums being a very humble guy telling people that they have an extraordinarily short development time for a big project like this and that many things can go wrong. That's actually one of the reasons I'm more confident they can pull it off than otherwise might be the case - they are perfectly well aware of how hard it is. WRT your expectations - there isn't really the conventional model of development that I can see. It's not the typical "build engine, lock down early, medium size team of asset creators get to work building compliant things". They start with some things 100% complete, some critical things 0% complete, and a larger team of asset creators (and pool of created assets) than you would ever normally choose to do. I think it's going to be a pretty weird ride for them. Hello Wiseblood, I understant that...I only responded politly to :"Talk about a failure of logic.." Wich is not very nice, is a personnal attack and not constructive....And never got an intelligent response as what would be the logical thinking from the poster...Instead, got another insult... Anyways, I was only saying that regarding how many years or months or weeks BOS has been in developement, since it is 1 year away from release, there are things , as a developper you can't avoid... Alpha testing, Beta testing, optimisations, marketting, publishing ,Gold and release...12 months to go. That is a very short time even if the "model" of developement is different from current game builders. My "logical" conclusion, and it is a personnal opinion, is that the sim must be in a pretty advanced state considering the above. Otherwise, as I mentionned, Jason would not have set the release for early 2014...If someone has another view, or hypothesys, or any different ideas to either confirm or not my conclusion, well, lets hear it... In a civilised manner.. Salute !
Rama Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 It is reasonnable to assume , at this stage, that many objects, planes and terrain would be graphically "showable". WIP...Scrennshots... Well, I don't think it can't be considered "reasonable" to loop and stick on the same assumption, especially with the absence of a start of an evidence that this assumption can be applied to BoS Dev, and without trying to connect this Idea with what you know (or could reasonably assume): - Nothing has been developed specifically for BoS before the agreement reached between 777 and 1C, which is quite recent. - BoS will use the digital nature engine, which is already fully developed and only need some adaptation. As others said, it means a big part of the dev can be considered done, and this without any showable objects developped. - The dev showed us the first image of the Lagg-3 import, and of the 3DS Max cockpit build of this aircraft, that's most probably everything that can be showed. And there's nothing to show from the Stalingrad terrain, since the work on it started less than a month ago. So you have your answer, most probably everything that is "showable" has been shown.
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 On the upside. The team now holds the best WWII. Game designers under one roof. And though it is only give or take a few months. Beginning 2014 id imagine is q1. So it can go to march. These guys have a plan, they know their abilities, if they say q1 we have n reason not to go with it. The dev diary says they are moving along meeting their goals. Im sorry mate, but if hou arent satisfied unless there are fresh screenshots delivered to you daily. Then you may wanna go follow a different project. Hello Hooves, You see, this is what I am talking about...Why do you conclude I am not satisfied ? Where in my post did you see any resentment about anything ? Maybe it is the langage barrier... Don't know...If it sounds like that , well, accept my apologies cause I am not this kind of "fanboy" that will never be satisfied.... But I am sure that everyone here would love to see screenshots in the upcoming updates ? B) If 777 are not ready do to so, well, that is fine with me... Salute !
APIKalimba Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 Well, I don't think it can't be considered "reasonable" to loop and stick on the same assumption, especially with the absence of a start of an evidence that this assumption can be applied to BoS Dev, and without trying to connect this Idea with what you know (or could reasonably assume): - Nothing has been developed specifically for BoS before the agreement reached between 777 and 1C, which is quite recent. - BoS will use the digital nature engine, which is already fully developed and only need some adaptation. As others said, it means a big part of the dev can be considered done, and this without any showable objects developped. - The dev showed us the first image of the Lagg-3 import, and of the 3DS Max cockpit build of this aircraft, that's most probably everything that can be showed. And there's nothing to show from the Stalingrad terrain, since the work on it started less than a month ago. So you have your answer, most probably everything that is "showable" has been shown. Hello Rama, Ok...Good arguments...But that would mean that all aircrafts, exteriors and interiors/cockpits, complex fm, complex dm, ballistics, AI planes, AI behavior, complete maps with buldings, roads, bridges, UI, multiplayer/offline missions, Alpha test, Beta test, debug, optimisation, and marketting the release would all be done within 12 months.... ? There is magic somewhere... Maybe 777's magic.... We will eventually have our answers...But I am still wondering how they will pull it off if they still have to do all this work ! SAlute !
71st_AH_Hooves Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Hello Hooves, You see, this is what I am talking about...Why do you conclude I am not satisfied ? Where in my post did you see any resentment about anything ? Maybe it is the langage barrier... Don't know...If it sounds like that , well, accept my apologies cause I am not this kind of "fanboy" that will never be satisfied.... But I am sure that everyone here would love to see screenshots in the upcoming updates ? B) If 777 are not ready do to so, well, that is fine with me... Salute ! The very post itself clues us into the fact that you aren't satisified. If you were satisfied, you would not have put up a post telling them what they should be putting out to the public at this stage. Less a language barrier, more reading between the lines. But I hope that you are now satisfied knowing this isnt a "from scratch" development and more like an extremely in depth expansion (in devs terms only). S!
addman Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Yup, game engine is there, assets from the cancelled BoM project are there, the LaGG-3 for example. I'll bet the next plane we'll see will be either the I-16 or the 109 which luthier had already shown us in his updates. All these things that are already there saves A LOT of time -especially the game engine-, still there's A LOT left to do and I will be very impressed if we'll actually see this thing released in 2014. Many updates to look forward to though. There are no estimated or average development time on any games, for a million of various reasons a game can take from 1 year to up to 5 years (very unusual these days with the tight economy and all) to go gold. Although nowadays, only a few triple-A titles gets the rare treatment of having several years of development time. 1
Feuerfalke Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Lets say a flight sim takes a average of 4 years in development,,, BOS should be released in 14 months (early 2014) That means BOS would be at 3/4 completed. At this point in development, we should have a lot of sreenshots available. So technically speaking, we should soon have plenty on nice screenies in the upcomming updates.... Unless BOS is not a conventionnal project, graphics would be greatly advanced at this stage... SAlute ! Now, that's creative! Lets say they only need half a year, when do you expect screenies then?
FlatSpinMan Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Enough squabbling. OP Summary: screenshots please. Others summary: It's not ready. We don't know the true progress. The Devs will release things when they are ready.
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