Hey Fellas, doe's BOX support full motion sims..?

[71st_AH_Vertigo]

Just wondering, as I recently invested in a DOF Reality full motion sim pit and it is awesome to pair up with Oculus and Assetto Corsa (racing sims)

 

I would love to experience the same with BOX, however I don't see any available plug-ins, so I am wondering if the telemetry output is there..

 

Thanks in advance

 

V

[montag]

I feel like those don't make much sense to anyone who has flown in a real airplane. When you are upside down in a move like a barrel roll you don't feel like you are upside down because you are still being pushed into the seat. Basically if the plane is being flown well you would only feel yourself being pulled down, pulled down with more force or when accelerating on take off being pushed back into your seat. You would feel negatives G's when nosing over, but a full motion pit wouldn't flip you in that circumstance.

 

In racing sims they can give you some feeling for actually driving by tilting you back when accelerating, tilting you forward when braking, and sideways in turns. It doesn't work well for flight sims though. If anything it would only make it way less realistic than just sitting there.

Edited December 7, 2018 by TheKillerSloth

[40plus]

13 minutes ago, TheKillerSloth said:

I feel like those don't make much sense to anyone who has flown in a real airplane. When you are upside down in a move like a barrel roll you don't feel like you are upside down because you are still being pushed into the seat. Basically if the plane is being flown well you would only feel yourself being pulled down, pulled down with more force or when accelerating on take off being pushed back into your seat. You would feel negatives G's when nosing over, but a full motion pit wouldn't flip you in that circumstance.

 

In racing sims they can give you some feeling for actually driving by tilting you back when accelerating, tilting you forward when braking, and sideways in turns. It doesn't work well for flight sims though. If anything it would only make it way less realistic than just sitting there.

 

That's why air-forces and flight training centers around the world have never bothered investing in full motion simulators . . . .Oh wait.

[Lusekofte]

Just now, pfrances said:

 

That's why air-forces and flight training centers around the world have never bothered investing in full motion simulators . . . .Oh wait.

They mostly got moving platforms, not 360 ones

[montag]

Those work way different than the ones I have seen people hook up war thunder to.

[Lusekofte]

I tested one for purchase, it was a bit uncomphortable whne you moved fast and hung too long up side down

[spitfirejoe]

16 hours ago, 71st_AH_Vertigo said:

Just wondering, as I recently invested in a DOF Reality full motion sim pit and it is awesome to pair up with Oculus and Assetto Corsa (racing sims)

 

I would love to experience the same with BOX, however I don't see any available plug-ins, so I am wondering if the telemetry output is there..

 

Thanks in advance

 

V

Hello friend,

 

I asked the same question already because I also have a 5 DOF motion Sim at home ( using for SIM Racing ), I asked the Dev studio by email to supply the Sim Tools guys the telemetry data that they can do a motion plug in for Sim Tools......unfortunately I did not get any response.

 

I know that you can NOT simulate barrel rolls or some harsh flight maneuvers or upside down flights, but I just wish I can get a little bank and pitch movement in my sim!

 Using VR with motion will be great for sure with BOX, I still have hope that some day I can do that.

 

[JonRedcorn]

Since nobody actually answered your question the answer is no it does not.

[71st_AH_Vertigo]

Thx fellas

 

Maybe some day

[Torso]

4 hours ago, 71st_AH_Vertigo said:

Maybe some day

 

This thread basically covers it. There was another, maybe a DD discussion that Andre and one of the devs for a motion sim software co basically spelled out exactly what code they need access to and how quick and easy it is to make available. I mean they literally posted the code to make it possible so that Jason could just take it and see for himself. Very low effort it appeared. But it seems there are/were concerns expressed about MP security(no one wants to open a door for cheating obviously) from Jason and teams side even though they tried to explain how benign the data needed was and would not create an opportunity for cheating or hacking. Still got a no from Jason sadly.

 

I keep my fingers crossed for some day as well.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Torso

[Guest deleted@134347]

19 minutes ago, Torso said:

But it seems there are/were concerns expressed about MP security(no one wants to open a door for cheating obviously) from Jason and teams side even though they tried to explain how benign the data needed was and would not create an opportunity for cheating or hacking. Still got a no from Jason sadly.

 

I keep my fingers crossed for some day as well.

 

the argument I heard was about the use of the telemetry data to achieve the maximum & optimal flight envelope performance using external processing and a mechanical or programmatical input in to the airplane controls (throttle/axis, etc).  To make something like that possible is no easy feat and by itself isn't a 'cheat', however if one is created then it could potentially be used by people who want to cheat. Frankly, it'll just mean you're creating a semi-autonomous bot that you can somehow take control over and use it to your potential advantage somehow. 

 

On the other hand there's a telemetry export from DCS. And nobody has created any bots like that. So it's just a "go away" type of an argument.

[ZachariasX]

Not sure how this would really help. Just a bit of shaking, I think VR must be awesome enough.

 

What I ca say is that when sitting in one of these.

 

We would deactivate mortion when we on purpose would  change flight control mode to direct law to perform maneuvers like rolls etc for obvious reasons. It is of note that we often forgot to turn motion back on, once going back to "regular" flight in normal law. Once you're really working the stick, the feel of motion goes away. Same as flying an aircraft yourself, you feel the moves much less as the passenger does. In a dual seat glider, it is rather nice when you switch contols every hour or so for nobody getting air sick. The pilot just feels it less.

 

I thing those moving seats are cool for car racing sims. But for plaes, VR is the way to go.

Edited December 8, 2018 by ZachariasX

[LLv24_SukkaVR]

 

This would be nice ?

[Torso]

2 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Not sure how this would really help. Just a bit of shaking, I think VR must be awesome enough.

Well, tactile/motion feedback WITH VR is absolutely amazing and takes things to the next rung on the immersion ladder. You would be surprised how a little well timed shaking adds to the game/sim

[spitfirejoe]

5 hours ago, ZachariasX said:

Not sure how this would really help. Just a bit of shaking, I think VR must be awesome enough.

 

What I ca say is that when sitting in one of these.

 

We would deactivate mortion when we on purpose would  change flight control mode to direct law to perform maneuvers like rolls etc for obvious reasons. It is of note that we often forgot to turn motion back on, once going back to "regular" flight in normal law. Once you're really working the stick, the feel of motion goes away. Same as flying an aircraft yourself, you feel the moves much less as the passenger does. In a dual seat glider, it is rather nice when you switch contols every hour or so for nobody getting air sick. The pilot just feels it less.

 

I thing those moving seats are cool for car racing sims. But for plaes, VR is the way to go.

 

Well I disagree a bit.

I am sitting in such motion sims aswell 5 times a year during my sim checks and refresher trainings and I feel the difference very much once the motion is off.

 

At home for my hobby motion sim rig.....I use VR of course AND motion for Sim Racing and nothing fits better than motion plus VR together. So.... IL-2 BOX I can only "fly" in VR at home, but I really miss the motion option with it to be honest and I cross my fingers aswell that someday it might happen..

 

DCS....I tried that, it has motion, but I prefer the IL-2 BOX software instead of DCS, I even did never touch DCS again after I tried it. For a WWII sim there is nothing better than IL-2.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

5 hours ago, Torso said:

 

This thread basically covers it. There was another, maybe a DD discussion that Andre and one of the devs for a motion sim software co basically spelled out exactly what code they need access to and how quick and easy it is to make available. I mean they literally posted the code to make it possible so that Jason could just take it and see for himself. Very low effort it appeared. But it seems there are/were concerns expressed about MP security(no one wants to open a door for cheating obviously) from Jason and teams side even though they tried to explain how benign the data needed was and would not create an opportunity for cheating or hacking. Still got a no from Jason sadly.

 

I keep my fingers crossed for some day as well.

 

That’s not exactly how that conversation went. Jason asked for the other compny’s API to check for compatibility and licensing concerns. They told him, no, send us yours and it stagnated from there.

[BlitzPig_EL]

I was asked by a new manufacturer in my area to try a sim system for racing that they are developing, primarily for gaming arcade and private home use.  I have real track experience so they were interested in my impressions of their product.  As an arcade thrill ride it was kinda cool, but it was nothing like driving a real car on a real race track.  the exaggerated movements that are used to try to simulate real G loading are not convincing in any way at all, and only distract you from anything approaching reality.

Edited December 9, 2018 by BlitzPig_EL

[Torso]

2 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

That’s not exactly how that conversation went. Jason asked for the other compny’s API to check for compatibility and licensing concerns. They told him, no, send us yours and it stagnated from there.

 

I need to find that thread and the exchange. It has eluded me for some reason. But I certainly could have some of the specifics incorrect. But I am not far off. The rejection and lack of interest was certainly from Jason's side. Which he of course has every right to not see much value in any effort towards enabling it. Just hope one day down the road Jason decides to do it or at least make the API available to let others do it. And now that we got tanks..oh hell yeah I wanna my seat to rumble, to bang when i fire that main gun. Tanks makes it even more useful.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Torso

[ZachariasX]

5 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

At home for my hobby motion sim rig.....I use VR of course AND motion for Sim Racing and nothing fits better than motion plus VR together. So.... IL-2 BOX I can only "fly" in VR at home, but I really miss the motion option with it to be honest and I cross my fingers aswell that someday it might happen..

How does your motion chair move when you are doing a roll or a loop? What I recocnize that especially the small vibration and shakes that come from taxiing ove the concrete panels of the runway or maybe from approaching stall make up for a lot if „wow“.

 

Which inputs are processed by your setup?

8 hours ago, Torso said:

Well, tactile/motion feedback WITH VR is absolutely amazing and takes things to the next rung on the immersion ladder. You would be surprised how a little well timed shaking adds to the game/sim

Ok. I thought this is one thing that I don‘t need, but I fear that is gonna be expensive, again! ?

[[CPT]Crunch]

They work, but only when you remove all visual connection with the outside world.  LINK trainers have been making pilots puke since WWII.  Still in use for spatial disorientation training at least up through the 90's, part of the altitude chamber quals.

 

You don't need full range of motion, just enough motion to fool the inner ear.  Matters not whether your platform is rising left side or right, your inner ear can't distinguish motion direction and attitude without visual reference for long, combine that with visuals of a roll and it can effectively fool the brain you rolled when you never banked more than a few degrees.  Seat of the pants pilots end up dead in motion sims, and that's exactly the lesson what they want to get drilled in.

 

Perfect for VR. 

[Herne]

On 12/7/2018 at 7:43 PM, pfrances said:

 

That's why air-forces and flight training centers around the world have never bothered investing in full motion simulators . . . .Oh wait.

 

Some Military sims have dropped hydraulic motion too.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

Shame there is no support for this but I was thinking wouldn't a system based just off joystick and rudder input work quite well?

Edited December 10, 2018 by AeroAce

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 hours ago, AeroAce said:

Shame there is no support for this but I was thinking wouldn't a system based just off joystick and rudder input work quite well?

 

nah, it wouldn't. I have a NLR v3 motion platform with a max angular movement for pitch/roll of +- 10° , got it for rally racing. It supports a telemetry based input (dcs and bunch of other games) or joystick input. The feed from joystick is waay too pronounced and in a knife fight it is extremely arcade, just bounces you around and it doesn't really translate the virtual movement in to a physical one, i.e. no additional immersion, just an annoyance. I spent quite a few hours tuning the sensitivity of it, but in the end it's doesn't add anything to the experience. In rally racing it's extremely fun and challenging as it is very good at simulating all of the bumps on the road. But for flying, especially if you want to retain the E and the input is very smooth, the chair just leans here and there without adding anything other than a frustration of realization that you're sitting while leaning left/right/front/back. There are no G-forces to press you in to the seat, obviously. I don't know if it's any better for motion platforms with 20 degrees or even 30 degrees.. but it seems to me there must be a rotational axis added to the platform in order for it to even remotely dupe your brain...

[Solmyr]

Wouldn't you be a classic cars enthusiast in Assetto Corsa by any chance ? 

[spitfirejoe]

On 12/9/2018 at 8:19 AM, ZachariasX said:

How does your motion chair move when you are doing a roll or a loop? What I recocnize that especially the small vibration and shakes that come from taxiing ove the concrete panels of the runway or maybe from approaching stall make up for a lot if „wow“.

 

Which inputs are processed by your setup?

Ok. I thought this is one thing that I don‘t need, but I fear that is gonna be expensive, again! ?

 

I have a self made sim Rig built with aluminum profiles and it stands on 4 "DURA HYPERAXIS" actuators from FREX Japan ( just google FREX simulation ). So I have full motion in Pitch, Bank and Heave

On the rig itself is a real SPARCO Racing seat mounted which is linked to another turning platform below the seat, connected to my 5. DURA HYPERAXIS actuator for Traction Loss effect ( Yaw Effect in flying ).

Inside the seat upholstery are 6 airbags......3 on the left side inside the seat and 3 on the right side inside the seat, those airbags are connected to a mechanical pneumatic system which is also actuated by another HYPERAXIS actuator, my number 6 actuator, which pumps air very quickly into those airbags and sucks the air out quickly aswell.....that provides the G-force effect. I call that system "Air G-force".

Besides all those 6 actuators I have another one in use.......my number 7 is an "SCN5" actuator. The SCN is connected mechanically to my 5 point OMP racing seat belt, when braking the actuator pulls the seat belt quickly and with a lot of force and while accelerating it releases the pressure.....that effect works VERY VERY well and adds a lot of immersion. 

 

All together works super great in Sim Racing, especially in combination with a VR Headset, I used Oculus Rift so far and since last Saturday I use the new SAMSUNG Odyssey plus, which is a great VR device.

 

How I would do loops or barrel rolls in my sim rig? Well, because I use a VR Headset....my sim rig would just do the maximum bank angle in the direction of the barrel roll and for a loop the maximum pitch angle.....the rest of the immersion comes with the VR Headset.

 

THE PICTURE below is NOT the actual state, I did some upgrades recently and still looking for upgrades and improvements!

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by spitfirejoe

[RAY-EU]

& I Would Order One With the Pimax 8K OLED PLUS+ Hands ON For the Me 262 A-1a to fell the +-2-3G’s for 2019 after  Christmas ! 

Lock On-2 :

 

 

A Country could or  would had simulated the G like flying real planes for Space  or Military training Simulation escenarios used in the XX’s Century .

Nowadays in XXI Century Drones , robots would  supply this kind of missions .

However  by the styling  and similar one :  fortunately & luckily challenge nowadays this could be joining also for reliving an experience like this Sim about Ww1, 2 & 3 historic entertainment of the Pass or Future Challenge science-fiction from a far away Space Avatar in a futuristic experience  , like a Disney theme Parks or Universal :  like the futuristic science-fiction attraction ‘Moon & Mars Land Simulator ‘ in The Epcot Center Theme Park’s .

 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by RAY-EU

[spitfirejoe]

I have high hopes that there will be hopefully a SIMTOOLS plugin for IL-2 BOX ready to download soon, I am really desperate to use my Motion rig with IL-2.

 

THANKS VERY MUCH to Jason to make it possible now ? 

 

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad Plug In for SIMTOOLS is available for download now!

 

https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/il-2-sturmovik-battle-of-stalingrad-plugin.226/

Edited March 30, 2019 by spitfirejoe

[novicebutdeadly]

I'd be happy just to be able to afford this:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology3/technology_178a.html

[spitfirejoe]

Hello dear IL-2 fans!

 

I did install the SIMTOOLS plugin today for Il-2 BOX and did edit a profile for my 5DOF Motion Sim. It is a total new experience for me, because IL-2 is the first flight sim software which I use with my motion rig and Simtools!

Before I used only Sim Racing Software ( i-Racing, Raceroom Racing Experience, Assetto Corsa, Rfactor2 and Assetto Corsa Competizione ) with motion.

 

The flight profile of IL-2 for Simtools is totally different than a race car profile, so I had to test a lot and try to tweak my settings until it feels natural, I am a professional pilot and I have flight experience in a real AT-6 "TEXAN", so I know how a WW2 trainer feels in real. 

Now, after hours of tweaking and testing I have a basic setup which works great and gives me a lot of great immersion, the combination of a VR headset and motion is pure fun and joy ??

 

I have a platform mover with 4 actuators on each corner, then an actuator under my seat which "turns" the seat left and right ( I use that for yaw ) and an actuator which pulls at my 5 point seatbelt with a lot of power ( in sim racing it is perfect for braking immersion ). In IL-2 my seatbelt gets pulled when I pull a lot of G´s, great immersion also.

 

So far I love the new motion experience with IL-2, my favorite WW2 sim.

I am not the video type guy, if I could make a video I would like to show and share, maybe someday someone comes here to me who can film it.

 

If anyone of you guys is visiting Frankfurt Germany, you are invited to do a test flight in my house, just send me a PM.

 

Best regards Joerg ( Joe )

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Ssssoooooo awesome. I’m about theee years out but I’m taking the dive after relocating. Allows the tech for both VR and motion to mature a bit and about the time I will be ready for a new computer as well. I watch with both amazement and anticipation!

[Jason_Williams]

20 hours ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello dear IL-2 fans!

 

I did install the SIMTOOLS plugin today for Il-2 BOX and did edit a profile for my 5DOF Motion Sim. It is a total new experience for me, because IL-2 is the first flight sim software which I use with my motion rig and Simtools!

Before I used only Sim Racing Software ( i-Racing, Raceroom Racing Experience, Assetto Corsa, Rfactor2 and Assetto Corsa Competizione ) with motion.

 

The flight profile of IL-2 for Simtools is totally different than a race car profile, so I had to test a lot and try to tweak my settings until it feels natural, I am a professional pilot and I have flight experience in a real AT-6 "TEXAN", so I know how a WW2 trainer feels in real. 

Now, after hours of tweaking and testing I have a basic setup which works great and gives me a lot of great immersion, the combination of a VR headset and motion is pure fun and joy ??

 

I have a platform mover with 4 actuators on each corner, then an actuator under my seat which "turns" the seat left and right ( I use that for yaw ) and an actuator which pulls at my 5 point seatbelt with a lot of power ( in sim racing it is perfect for braking immersion ). In IL-2 my seatbelt gets pulled when I pull a lot of G´s, great immersion also.

 

So far I love the new motion experience with IL-2, my favorite WW2 sim.

I am not the video type guy, if I could make a video I would like to show and share, maybe someday someone comes here to me who can film it.

 

If anyone of you guys is visiting Frankfurt Germany, you are invited to do a test flight in my house, just send me a PM.

 

Best regards Joerg ( Joe )

 

Joe,

 

Can you send me a video. We have yet to see it working in real life.

 

Jason

On 3/29/2019 at 8:20 PM, spitfirejoe said:

I have high hopes that there will be hopefully a SIMTOOLS plugin for IL-2 BOX ready to download soon, I am really desperate to use my Motion rig with IL-2.

 

THANKS VERY MUCH to Jason to make it possible now ? 

 

EDIT!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the IL-2 Battle of Stalingrad Plug In for SIMTOOLS is available for download now!

 

https://www.xsimulator.net/community/marketplace/il-2-sturmovik-battle-of-stalingrad-plugin.226/

 

Don't thank me, thank our Lead Programmer Sergey!

 

Jason

[BlitzPig_EL]

Upvoted this, even though I don't use VR or a sim seat.  Progress on any front of air combat simulation needs to be celebrated.

 

Well done Jason and Sergey.

[40plus]

Early states into my DIY motion seat planning. Lack of support from IL2 was my biggest excuse for dragging my feet. I'm going to have to step it up now ?

[spitfirejoe]

Hello Jason, well yes I thank your Lead Programmer Sergey!! Thank you very much Sergey !

 

A video.....well I am not the video guy, don't have the equipment for that here, but maybe my wife can do a small iPhone video.

[THERION]

6 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

but maybe my wife can do a small iPhone video

 

UN - BE - DINGT!

 

Please, enlighten us!

[Jason_Williams]

46 minutes ago, spitfirejoe said:

Hello Jason, well yes I thank your Lead Programmer Sergey!! Thank you very much Sergey !

 

A video.....well I am not the video guy, don't have the equipment for that here, but maybe my wife can do a small iPhone video.

 

Any video of it working helps. We're in the dark. None of us have a motion rig. We did this blindly.

 

Jason

[spitfirejoe]

I just have a "boring" video to share now. I say boring, because there is not much to see for my opinion, you must feel it yourself in combination with VR.

Pitch and Roll is feeling really good. MY rig in particular has a slight disadvantage with flight simming ( since it was built and optimized for sim racing ), the stroke of the actuator has only 100mm, which is great and sufficient for sim racing with cars, for flying more optimum would be a stroke length of 200mm to give you a lot of bank angle movement and high pitch angles....that would be for flight swimming better. But I have what I have and in VR the bank and pitch angles are OK for me personally.

 

I still have to tweak the profile.

 

Here I bought the actuators ( FREX from Osaka/Japan ), as you can hear they are a bit noisy, but I am used to it already.

 

https://frex.com/store/product/hyperaxis/?lang=en

 

 

[CountZero]

rdy for tank crew

[Jason_Williams]

Joe,

 

Your killing me homie! Can you show it from an angle that shows IL-2 in motion on the screen? Maybe from 7 o'clock position? Still no proof IL-2 is working with motion. LOL 

 

Jason

[Jade_Monkey]

I did not make room on the 2019 budget for this. Gonna have to take a page from the government's book and run a deficit.?‍♂️