A.I. in 3.008 patch

[EAF_51_FOX]

Please who want to add his comments7experience for the A.I. coming from 3.008 . IMHO the behaviour hasn't changed quite nothing: still A.I. 90% continue to evade with a simple slow-turn levelled right or left, haven't seen any chandelle manouvers so far, but may be my quick combat test was too hurry.

Edited December 6, 2018 by EAF_51_FOX

[Godspeed]

I dont see mutch difference but good if there are improvements.

They just are not enough right now.

 

Also AI behavior is quite different when they have some job to do like attacking ground targets.

They cant adapt changes what happens in air like if they are under attack.

 

For example E7 jabo fighters think they are some big ass bombers and fly as such.

[dburne]

I have not seen that, the AI seem to be flying to their strengths quite well in my PWCG campaign.

[Godspeed]

39 minutes ago, dburne said:

I have not seen that, the AI seem to be flying to their strengths quite well in my PWCG campaign.

 

Go test official career.

[RedKestrel]

In career I've noticed the following:
109E7s on bombing runs will attack their targets and then afterwards will engage me and attacking fighters pretty aggressively. Sometimes when I attack them they drop their bombs and evade. Not sure if they did that before or not.
AI in general seems more aggressive.
I've noticed a bit more maneuvering in the vertical and engaged in some horizontal/rolling scissors a few times which was rare before.
HOWEVER its true, the AI will eventually default to its turning thing.

Obviously the AI setting in the career will make a small difference, I play on Moderate difficulty so I think that puts the AI at Average. 

These are minor updates more in line with fixing bugs than overhauling AI IMO. I don't think we should expect much from it but my experience since playing has improved in a noticeable way.

I think they are tweaking the AI in ways they know for sure won't break the whole system as they don't have an expert on board. So we will probably get a bunch of incremental improvements rather than a big overhaul. 

[Gambit21]

33 minutes ago, Godspeed said:

 

Go test official career.

 

Career does not have separate/different aircraft behavior logic FYI.

 

An attack command is an attack command.

 

I’ll look at the Emil later.

In the meantime it would help if you posted a mission where you see this behavior.

[Godspeed]

 

21 minutes ago, Gambit21 said:

 

Career does not have separate/different aircraft behavior logic FYI.

 

An attack command is an attack command.

 

I’ll look at the Emil later.

In the meantime it would help if you posted a mission where you see this behavior.

 

You play as flight member not flight leader.

Get attacked by random planes along the travel you see some crazy stuff.

 

Or attack E7 jabo flight as VVS side and get free kills.

 

Most dangerous "command" is to order your flight head back to base.

Reasons like to try save some pilots when they are being eaten by everything.

RTB command makes it worse.
 

Jabo career is not working because AI acts like a bomber not like fighter.

 

Universal problems are also flight flying too low altitude.

 

Or universal "rule" attack or get attacked when your flight is landing.

They wont fight back  you just pray that your airfields AA can help your team mates if you cant for some reason like no ammo or your plane is landed because your planes engine is dying if you contiune flying by damage.

 

Jabo flights needs escort atm and i dont see any reason why not because you escort them as fighter career..

 

 

I mostly fly ground attackers and career with them are not good state.

Thats why game is making me fly as fighter because its only career that works with minor faults only.

 

There should be option to put all AI to ace level on air because you get bored of being ACE in single flight.

Playing as Hard difficulty makes your own fighter pilots act so bad.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Godspeed

[Ribbon]

So far i was flying only vs. 109 G4 in career (hard difficulty).

It seems defensive maneuvers are improved (more aggressive), it doesn't turn tight as before (but still turns when it shouldn't, on co-energy he should extend more and climb), it does vertical fight sometimes, it use it's plane advantages a bit better (extend, climb...etc.) but there is still room for improvements.

 

If every update bring small tweaks like this i'm happy, small steps but in the right direction!

 

 

 

 

[E69_geramos109]

I still can see Ias going inverted like idiots on straight line  when I am sitting behind them. 

Anyone knows if that woobling retarded turns that they make when you got their six is still there?

[ShamrockOneFive]

I've had 20 minutes of combat flying in the QMB only since the patch came out and the AI's defensive flying is definitely more aggressive. I've seen some rudder coordinated snap rolls which I don't know if I've ever seen before. That should keep me on my toes for a while

[CamusB455]

14 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

I still can see Ias going inverted like idiots on straight line  when I am sitting behind them. 

Anyone knows if that woobling retarded turns that they make when you got their six is still there?

It seems so.  If the a.i. doesn't have a significant energy advantage, they will turn and burn as their only defensive manuever.  Even if a straight line or shallow  climb would be the sensible thing to do with a slower fighter on your six. Seems a.i. still won't break off from a dogfight until they're dead.

[unreasonable]

21 hours ago, RedKestrel said:

I've noticed a bit more maneuvering in the vertical and engaged in some horizontal/rolling scissors a few times which was rare before.
HOWEVER its true, the AI will eventually default to its turning thing.
 

 

Not had time to observe changes yet - but I just wanted to chime in with the thought that this continuous turn the AI does, gets a lot of unfair criticism, especially if during the fight you have already forced it low and slowish. What is it expected to do? - except sometimes a scissors, which I have seen I-16s do even before 3.007  It's best bet is to stay out of your guns reach until either friends arrive, you run out of ammo or fuel or just get bored. I am really not sure what other move it should make.

 

I am sure we have all read pilot accounts saying things like "he was turning and I could not get enough lead: and then the enemy made a fatal mistake and reversed his turn; within moments I was hitting him".  

[RedKestrel]

4 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

 

Not had time to observe changes yet - but I just wanted to chime in with the thought that this continuous turn the AI does, gets a lot of unfair criticism, especially if during the fight you have already forced it low and slowish. What is it expected to do? - except sometimes a scissors, which I have seen I-16s do even before 3.007  It's best bet is to stay out of your guns reach until either friends arrive, you run out of ammo or fuel or just get bored. I am really not sure what other move it should make.

 

I am sure we have all read pilot accounts saying things like "he was turning and I could not get enough lead: and then the enemy made a fatal mistake and reversed his turn; within moments I was hitting him".  

Oh absolutely, I was just pointing out that yes, the AI does return to the continuous turn we often see in-game as Godspeed said. Turning itself is not the issue, it becomes a problem when there are many other, better options that could be exploited. The AI seems to be beginning to improve in tactic diversity, but there's always going to be room for sustained turns.

Basically my point was that nothing truly fundamental had changed (and the dev notes did not indicate this anyway) but there have been some nice improvement IMO. 

[Voidhunger]

From my observation some planes are better now (for example P39) and some are easier (Yak7b) now.

together with increased durability of planes its interesting now.

 

IL2 gunners are deadly now.

 

 

[Bert_Foster]

Watch the A20 Jive !

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

SPADs still [edited] and go land.

 

Even when there is four of them and one of you.

Edited December 10, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin
Language

[Feathered_IV]

I'm still seeing the AI turn to the right and stay that way indefinitely.

[Finkeren]

Overall an improvement, but it’s still far too easy to bait especially 109s to give up a clear energy advantage. The AI still can’t fly the Fw 190 as a fighter, it just can’t. 

 

One really positive thing I noticed was, that in a situation where the AI forces an overshoot, and they don’t get to shoot back immediately, they will actually try to use this reversal to gain an energy advantage, where before they would just start turning into you.

[unreasonable]

4 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

I'm still seeing the AI turn to the right and stay that way indefinitely.

 

They are just in tune with the Eastern European zeitgeist.  

[keeno]

Flying Fw190A5 against Lagg3 in QMB, the Lagg several times drew me into scissors to force an overshoot, or if I got on the direct 6 he constantly jinked left and right, up and down to throw off my aim or suddenly snap roll. You can still bag a few in a row but definitely harder, plus the Lagg took some serious punishment. 

Flying in a Spitfire v FW, the 190 constantly boom n zoomed taking the fight vertically.

The AI is getting better, still easily beatable 1 on 1 but I found myself wasting ammo with my terrible gunnery and their manoeuvring. 

[Feathered_IV]

17 minutes ago, unreasonable said:

 

They are just in tune with the Eastern European zeitgeist.  

 

I used to work doing art installations with two German guys, one much older and the other rather younger.  When they'd put in screws they would sometimes sheepishly recite a little rhyme to remind them of which direction to go.  Roughly translated, it was:  "since the coming of the Reich all good screws turn to the right!"

[Semor76]

30 minutes ago, keeno said:

Flying Fw190A5 against Lagg3 in QMB, the Lagg several times drew me into scissors to force an overshoot, or if I got on the direct 6 he constantly jinked left and right, up and down to throw off my aim or suddenly snap roll. You can still bag a few in a row but definitely harder, plus the Lagg took some serious punishment. 

Flying in a Spitfire v FW, the 190 constantly boom n zoomed taking the fight vertically.

 

What was the AI level?

 

30 minutes ago, keeno said:

The AI is getting better, still easily beatable 1 on 1 but I found myself wasting ammo with my terrible gunnery and their manoeuvring. 

LooL...sorry, everytime I read this I still think people play a entire different Version of IL-2.

 

I noticed some very minor improvements with the last 2 patches,but all in all the AI is still a mess. (but it´s getting better. in very,very,veeery small steps)

 

Playing PWCG & Career mode and my AI still cant do split S without crashing into ground. They still have massive problems in formation flying/rejoning formations. Going vertical is still very rare, and 99% of all angagements ends up in NASCAR AI vs me.

This is only from my perspective as a player. Just ask the mission builders, they can tell you more storys. ?

Edited December 8, 2018 by Semor76

[unreasonable]

44 minutes ago, Feathered_IV said:

 

I used to work doing art installations with two German guys, one much older and the other rather younger.  When they'd put in screws they would sometimes sheepishly recite a little rhyme to remind them of which direction to go.  Roughly translated, it was:  "since the coming of the Reich all good screws turn to the right!"

 

I once did some consulting work in Germany after the Wall came down. My colleague always teased the young Germans we met by asking them about their apartments; they almost always obligingly said that they were pleasant but a little cramped. At which he would invariable reply, in that case, why not extend their living room to the East?  Oh, how we laughed. 

[keeno]

Hi Semor,

 

the Ai level I always set to "random" in QMB.

 

WRT this: "LooL...sorry, everytime I read this I still think people play a entire different Version of iL2".......... in my opinion, the Ai has been getting tweaked making it slightly better, as I said, still easily beatable 1 on 1, isn't that a valid statement?

[Semor76]

40 minutes ago, keeno said:

Hi Semor,

 

the Ai level I always set to "random" in QMB.

 

 

ok. thx. I ask, because AI behaviour depends on the skill level. Higher AI level= more variation in tactics. Thats the reason why I want a adjustable slider for the career mode.

 

43 minutes ago, keeno said:

 isn't that a valid statement?

It is. of course.  Peace. ?

[BlitzPig_EL]

The Mc202s I've encountered in several of coconut's missions now seem to be far more aerobatic in their attacks, and do present more of a challenge.

[blitze]

5 hours ago, BlitzPig_EL said:

The Mc202s I've encountered in several of coconut's missions now seem to be far more aerobatic in their attacks, and do present more of a challenge.

 

Well there's the issue right there.  We all know that during WW2 Italian pilots would only do aerobatic displays and then fly away.  This AI attacking thing for the Mc202's is totally out of place. ?

[migmadmarine]

I hope they will oneday fully solve the CFIT issues with AI. I've been running a German JG-52 career from Moscow through to (I intend) the end of Bodenplatte, and honestly I loose more pilots in my squadron to flying into the ground than to enemy fire. I force-closed in disgust during my last Kuban flight since all three of the other fighters in my flight flew into the ground. 

 

[Thad]

1 hour ago, thenorm said:

I hope they will oneday fully solve the CFIT issues with AI. I've been running a German JG-52 career from Moscow through to (I intend) the end of Bodenplatte, and honestly I loose more pilots in my squadron to flying into the ground than to enemy fire. I force-closed in disgust during my last Kuban flight since all three of the other fighters in my flight flew into the ground. 

 

 

Agreed. I am still seeing this abnormal AI behavior in some of my practice missions. Perhaps slightly less than in the past but it remains a problem. ?

[Herne]

25 minutes ago, ChiefWH said:

Thanks for the frank reports, I'll wait some more and see what future updates bring.

 

Hi ChiefWH, 

 

Have a read of this :-
 

 

Some people will tell you the AI is [edited], speaking for myself I find that it's OK, and have seen it do things on occasion that would have made me believe I was playing online. This guys experience is worth the read, but the best advice really is to try it and see for yourself, so that you can make up your own mind.

Edited December 10, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin
Language

[Herne]

I continued a fairly new career I'd started on BOM last night, it was a bomber interception and my flight were all in I16's. We tangled with the bombers, and it wasn't long before I had to worry about the fighter escort. 
The engagement was at approx 2k altitude, and when I had to deal with a fighter coming in fast on my six, I was able to evade with a climbing corkscrew, he overshot, we both stalled out, but I had the advantage.

I was able to land a few shots on him, so that he was leaking fuel. He went into a steep dive, and I chose to let him go and continue on mission. I did not see that leaking 109 again, but I did not kill him either, I don't know where he went. 
 

[Nibbio]

Yesterday I was escorting a flight of Ju-87 returning form a strike, when I noticed that all the stukas still had their bomb hanging from the fuselage, with the exception of the leader. This is ridiculous and totally breaks the immersion. I wonder what is so difficult about programming the AI to drop the frigging bombs at the strike location...

[Godspeed]

4 hours ago, Nibbio said:

Yesterday I was escorting a flight of Ju-87 returning form a strike, when I noticed that all the stukas still had their bomb hanging from the fuselage, with the exception of the leader. This is ridiculous and totally breaks the immersion. I wonder what is so difficult about programming the AI to drop the frigging bombs at the strike location...

 

Its been that way for long time..

[RedKestrel]

7 hours ago, Godspeed said:

 

Its been that way for long time..

FWIW for me they always drop their bombs on or around the target. 

 

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

I was going over some of my single player missions with the current patch. Time after time, regardless of craft type, when strafing a truck vehicle column, the gun rounds were overshooting the targets with no hits.

 

I changed all AI pilots to ace and re-ran the missions over and over.... same results. All of the AI controlled craft fired high and completely missing their targets.

 

Craft used: P-40, P-39, Yak1, Ju87. All displayed the same inaccurate gun fire.

 

The AI seems totally useless in a strafing situation.

 

I wonder if it could be tied to the developers attempt to curtail craft from flying into the ground?

 

Oh, I set different firing ranges too. It didn't make any difference. They all continued to fire over the targets.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Thad
Added Firing Range Note.

[unreasonable]

2 hours ago, Thad said:

<snip>

 

Oh, I set different firing ranges too. It didn't make any difference. They all continued to fire over the targets.

 

I suspect that is because air gunners calculate as though they were stationary at the moment of firing, ie not taking into account the forwards vector of their plane. You can see this most clearly if you set up a mission and get He111 side gunners to fire at ground targets while your player plane flies straight and level, low. Every burst misses in the direction of travel. The gunners are aiming at the target rather than behind it, which is where a side gunner needs to aim. 

 

Having said that, my AI 109 flight managed to destroy a number of artillery emplacements while strafing in career: that might be because when they get very close this effect no longer gives a big enough error to cause misses, or it might be because they are firing cannon and MG together with different trajectories.

Edited December 12, 2018 by unreasonable

[Soilworker]

One thing that bugs me is the fighter flight leaders not compensating for bomb load. 

 

Eg: In my 109G2 career we had to bomb a supply column the other day and my flight leader seemed to be maintaining a normal fighter cruise speed which resulted in (I assume) the whole flight having to cruise to the objective at nearly full combat power to compensate for the additional drag of the bomb. 

 

At least that's my theory as to why we were all flying flat out. 

 

And at the same time when we have to intercept incoming bombers we fly slowly at no more than 500m then have to climb madly to get up to them (with no speed to evade escorts).