P-47 Thunderbolt M1 official engine mod ?

[ShamrockOneFive]

9 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

Cockpit is what I meant. Externally there was pretty much no change at all save for dive flaps, not all P-47M had the dorsal fin so that'd just be optional.

 

 

Higher boost for the D-28 would need 150 fuel. With 150 fuel it ran at 70" and could run 65" with or without water. Combat would be the same as it is now at 52".

 

If the front line units were using 150 grade fuel then I definitely want that as a mod. It doesn't have to be the base line model but when it becomes historically relevant then yep, lets throw in the 150 grade fuel/70" boost. It's not a P-47M but perhaps even more relevant.

[LColony_Kong]

1 minute ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

It's a good thing that the developers did model those important volume models too and they did them well. We've got a FW190A-8 which I assumed would kind of be under the radar for most but be an extremely important model as the developers have rightly been able to give us an A-8, an F-8 and even a G-8 out of that aircraft. That's the kind of bread and butter type I'd want for historical scenarios too.

 

However, even with the small numbers of the rarer types, they have relevancy. If I wanted to do another Tempest campaign like I did with Stormclouds 2.0 then I need both FW190D-9 and Bf109K-4 to be there in the day to day operations within that late winter/spring 1945 timeframe. That's what the Tempests were all too frequently up against. The numbers argument is one thing but I think relevancy is another and if a few of the key units on the frontlines during that time were using them then I really want to see them represented. Which they are.

 

The same is with the La-7. It's relevancy in 1944? If the devs were doing a late 1944 scenario then I see little point in the La-7. The numbers are too low but it's the relevancy which is low too as you point out. However, if we were to say do the lead up to the Battle of Berlin it becomes far more important as some key front line squadrons were using it (and famously shooting down a Me-262) and I'd absolutely want it.

I mean I didn't say they were totally irrelevant. But as you implied they are not the bread and butter. It gets old that everyone except the USA, even in US made sims, gets their most rare and amazing stuff. And the Allies only get their run of the mill, or not even that. 

[Legioneod]

Just now, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

If the front line units were using 150 grade fuel then I definitely want that as a mod. It doesn't have to be the base line model but when it becomes historically relevant then yep, lets throw in the 150 grade fuel/70" boost. It's not a P-47M but perhaps even more relevant.

It wasn't used by the 9th AAF, only the 8th AAF used it.

The 8th was in the same area though escorting bombers and doing other things so it should be added despite not being used by the 9th.

[ShamrockOneFive]

Just now, Fumes said:

I mean I didn't say they were totally irrelevant. But as you implied they are not the bread and butter. It gets old that everyone except the USA, even in US made sims, gets their most rare and amazing stuff. And the Allies only get their run of the mill, or not even that. 

 

I absolutely agree. It'd be nice to have some of the rarer options. My standard is if it was used then I'd like to see it. If the reasons for not having it are documentation then I at least understand and would hope that the community could rally to try and dig stuff up.

Just now, Legioneod said:

It wasn't used by the 9th AAF, only the 8th AAF used it.

The 8th was in the same area though escorting bombers and doing other things so it should be added despite not being used by the 9th.

 

Right. Now I understand that conundrum a bit more. Should we have it because the 8th was using it even though we'll be flying it like the 9th AF? I'm inclined to say yes anyways but I could see the more difficult choice.

 

I feel like a sim is a sandbox and with available options (ignoring developer time constraints for a moment) it gives us, the players of the sim, the ability to moderate and discuss what we want to allow (or not) when it comes to things like multiplayer servers or even single player scripted campaigns.

[Ehret]

1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

I understand that there are workarounds for the current modeling limitations but we really shouldn't have to go through all that. It should run as it historically did without having to play with the settings.

 

The historic Thunderbolt pilots played with the settings - there is multi lever quadrant and 3 types of cooling cowl/flaps for a reason. Don't want to play with historic controls of the P-47D? Dunno then... perhaps choose something different to fly. There is the other plane which can be flied with a throttle only...

[Legioneod]

1 minute ago, Ehret said:

 

The historic Thunderbolt pilots played with the settings - there is multi lever quadrant and 3 types of cooling cowl/flaps for a reason. Don't want to play with historic controls of the P-47D? Dunno then... perhaps choose something different to fly. There is the other plane which can be flied with a throttle only...

What I'm saying is in order to used full WEP/Water times we shouldnt need to play with the settings. I mess with my controls all the time in flight but in order to use WEP we need it represented accurate.

[LColony_Kong]

7 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

It wasn't used by the 9th AAF, only the 8th AAF used it.

The 8th was in the same area though escorting bombers and doing other things so it should be added despite not being used by the 9th.

IIRC 9th got it later on the continent, like late 44 or 45. Where 8th had it from june44 on. 

[DSR_A-24]

A P-47D-28 with 150 Octane is already a P-47M with a lower critical altitude, performance wise. The P-47M opens the window to the Ta-152 then the Dora 12/13 etc. Once you add that plane there is no boundaries to what can be added in the game. Even if the P-47M was never grounded and all 130 were combat ready, it wasnt the 9th airforce that received the P-47M.

 

Let's be honest with ourselves. They would never add another plane outside of the current plane set. They've never done before it so why now? The engine limitation issue has been a problem since the beginning of BoS. That's an actually problem that I'm sure everyone agrees with but has yet to be solved.

[Legioneod]

6 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

I absolutely agree. It'd be nice to have some of the rarer options. My standard is if it was used then I'd like to see it. If the reasons for not having it are documentation then I at least understand and would hope that the community could rally to try and dig stuff up.

 

Right. Now I understand that conundrum a bit more. Should we have it because the 8th was using it even though we'll be flying it like the 9th AF? I'm inclined to say yes anyways but I could see the more difficult choice.

 

I feel like a sim is a sandbox and with available options (ignoring developer time constraints for a moment) it gives us, the players of the sim, the ability to moderate and discuss what we want to allow (or not) when it comes to things like multiplayer servers or even single player scripted campaigns.

Agreed, you can never have to many options.

[ShamrockOneFive]

1 minute ago, Legioneod said:

Agreed, you can never have to many options.

 

For sure. And the only thing that I think is stopping 1CGS on this is time (and money)... maybe documentation but I don't know that for a fact. The rest of its pretty straight forward that they have a ton to do with a small team and not a ton of time to do it.

 

Still, they may have a master plan on how to handle some of the 150 octane Allied birds and that may come later on in the process. We don't know what their developers have to do and when. They have done a pretty damn good job of adding in some cool features like making sure that the P-47D-28 got a K-14 gunsight (and the same thing for the Spitfire) and a great array of options for guns, bombs, rockets, etc. They even gave us the rare RP-3 rocket option for the Spitfire IX (with both AP and HE options). So 1CGS is definitely not opposed to giving us some unique options.

[Rattlesnake]

44 minutes ago, ShamrockOneFive said:

 

If there's something wrong with the P-47... get the data together and point it out. If I find anything I'm going to send it to the developers myself but whenever I go looking for actual information its either not there OR it supports what's already there.

A plane that is famous for being good when operated at high speed is no better or worse at high speed than a plane infamous for having an especially stiff elevator at high speed. That should be a clue to the devs and anyone else.

I've played this games since the early 2000s. I've seen the same planes in different games fly so differently that I realize that "realism" except in the broadest ballpark terms (speeds, climb rates, relative turn rates and THAT one is murky) is basically a marketing gimmick.

That being said, this is the ONLY one of these games I've ever seen where the Jug and most other planes can't pull enough G to black out the pilot at 400mph IAS at low altitude (non-compressability conditions, IOW). This has huge and negative implications for how P-47s and planes of similar attributes can be flown. If they have to operate basically from the mid 300s IAS on down they don't have a card to play against fighters that climb and turn better, and don't stand much chance.

I'm currently looking for the only proof on this issue I know of, a test pilot account I read once comparing the handling of P-51, P-47, and F4U which points out the P-47 having lighter stick forces than the P-51. Since the P-51 was known to have enough elevator control to accidentally *break the airframe* pulling out of dives it follows that the P-47 would at least be able to black out the pilot. But I'm having trouble finding the damn thing.

BTW, in case anyone thinks my motivation is pure jingoism, I will also affirm that the elevator control on the 109 is implausibly bad in the 275-350 range, even with its historic reputation. The Germans accepted a plane that couldn't "corner" at airspeeds it easily attains in level flight?!?! However, that plane's power lets it have a good medium/low speed vertical/energy fighting game, so it's not rendered useless by the handicap.

26 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

 

I understand that there are workarounds for the current modeling limitations but we really shouldn't have to go through all that. It should run as it historically did without having to play with the settings.

Honestly 5 minutes of WEP would be fine if 1. You had some way to keep track of it and NOT accidentally break the engine! 2. It recharged quicker. 3. You had plenty of "combat mode".

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by CMBailey

[LColony_Kong]

15 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

A plane that is famous for being good when operated at high speed is no better or worse at high speed than a plane infamous for having an especially stiff elevator at high speed. That should be a clue to the devs and anyone else.

I've played this games since the early 2000s. I've seen the same planes in different games fly so differently that I realize that "realism" except in the broadest ballpark terms (speeds, climb rates, relative turn rates and THAT one is murky) is basically a marketing gimmick.

That being said, this is the ONLY one of these games I've ever seen where the Jug and most other planes can't pull enough G to black out the pilot at 400mph IAS at low altitude (non-compressability conditions, IOW). This has huge and negative implications for how P-47s and planes of similar attributes can be flown. If they have to operate basically from the mid 300s IAS on down they don't have a card to play against fighters that climb and turn better, and don't stand much chance.

I'm currently looking for the only proof on this issue I know of, a test pilot account I read once comparing the handling of P-51, P-47, and F4U which points out the P-47 having lighter stick forces than the P-51. Since the P-51 was known to have enough elevator control to accidentally *break the airframe* pulling out of dives it follows that the P-47 would at least be able to black out the pilot. But I'm having trouble finding the damn thing.

BTW, in case anyone thinks my motivation is pure jingoism, I will also affirm that the elevator control on the 109 is implausibly bad in the 275-350 range, even with its historic reputation. The Germans accepted a plane that couldn't "corner" at airspeeds it easily attains in level flight?!?! However, that plane's power lets it have a good medium/low speed vertical/energy fighting game, so it's not rendered useless by the handicap.

Honestly 5 minutes of WEP would be fine if 1. You had some way to keep track of it and NOT accidentally break the engine! 2. It recharged quicker. 3. You had plenty of "combat mode".

 

Oh they pull the G. This game just has the most absurd G modeling on the Pilot. I tested it recently and you dont start to grey out till about 7 G. Red out is almost non-existent. Hence all the absurd high G and negative G cheese in this game. 

 

you know, guys doing -4 G pushovers to avoid being shot when surprised. 

 

IRL greyout without a G suit was about 4.5G. Gloc around 6. 

[R6ckStar]

14 minutes ago, Fumes said:

Oh they pull the G. This game just has the most absurd G modeling on the Pilot. I tested it recently and you dont start to grey out till about 7 G. Red out is almost non-existent. Hence all the absurd high G and negative G cheese in this game. 

 

you know, guys doing -4 G pushovers to avoid being shot when surprised. 

 

IRL greyout without a G suit was about 4.5G. Gloc around 6. 

 

Could this be the biggest problem with perceived control stiffness?

[Rattlesnake]

2 minutes ago, Fumes said:

Oh they pull the G. This game just has the most absurd G modeling on the Pilot. I tested it recently and you dont start to grey out till about 7 G. Red out is almost non-existent. Hence all the absurd high G and negative G cheese in this game. 

 

you know, guys doing -4 G pushovers to avoid being shot when surprised. 

 

IRL greyout without a G suit was about 4.5G. Gloc around 6. 

The 47 at 400 should be able to reach that threshold. Test the Jug yourself. Nowhere near it.

The main gameplay problem with such stick-stirs is that being faster reduces your control authority too much to adjust to such things in due time. And being able to easily defeat faster planes' gun solutions without actually doing anything that drains significant energy and/or a difference in flight paths has all kinds of implications for ACM. If one can to large extent avoid a faster planes just by twitching a bit without losing much speed or drastically changing direction then energy fighting by using diving speed, as opposed to simply having a sheer engine power advantage, is very compromised.  As I've been mostly driving Fw-190 which has less problems than just about anything in this regard I've been unaware. The Jug's high speed reputation is at least as good as the Butcherbird's, but it doesn't play out that way in-game.

[LColony_Kong]

6 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

The 47 at 400 should be able to reach that threshold. Test the Jug yourself. Nowhere near it.

The main gameplay problem with such stick-stirs is that being faster reduces your control authority too much to adjust to such things in due time. And being able to easily defeat faster planes' gun solutions without actually doing anything that drains significant energy and/or a difference in flight paths has all kinds of implications for ACM. If one can to large extent avoid a faster planes just by twitching a bit without losing much speed or drastically changing direction then energy fighting by using diving speed, as opposed to simply having a sheer engine power advantage, is very compromised.  As I've been mostly driving Fw-190 which has less problems than just about anything in this regard I've been unaware. The Jug's high speed reputation is at least as good as the Butcherbird's, but it doesn't play out that way in-game.

I have not tested jug, just speaking of the game in general. 

[Rattlesnake]

An interesting experiment: Test the P-40 at 400mph IAS. With trim it easily pulls to the blackout. We are to believe that the USAAF, which was very interested in higher speed performance, accepted a plane that was less capable at high speeds than technology they already had in the pre-war 1930s?

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, CMBailey said:

3. You had plenty of "combat mode".

 

You have... for an example at the deck 28m of 53" @ 2505rpm which is actually (519km/h) faster than (516km/h) 12m of 55" @ 2700prm. (both 50% fuel, no mods, only inter-cooler at 50%)

[Rattlesnake]

3 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

You have... for an example at the deck 28m of 53" @ 2505rpm which is actually (519km/h) faster than (516km/h) 12m of 55" @ 2700prm. (both 50% fuel, no mods, only inter-cooler at 50%)

The amount of time you have at the mode which provides maximum thrust is more critical for actually fighting with the thing. And like I say five minutes would probably be enough if 1. You weren't risking breaking the engine and 2. It recharged a little more quickly while off.

And like I've been saying, the the fatal flaw right now is the high speed handling. You don't get anything from that magnificent dive speed if you can't hope to hit anything that sees you coming and does the slightest evasive maneuver.

[GP*]

1 hour ago, CMBailey said:

The 47 at 400 should be able to reach that threshold. Test the Jug yourself. Nowhere near it.

The main gameplay problem with such stick-stirs is that being faster reduces your control authority too much to adjust to such things in due time. And being able to easily defeat faster planes' gun solutions without actually doing anything that drains significant energy and/or a difference in flight paths has all kinds of implications for ACM. If one can to large extent avoid a faster planes just by twitching a bit without losing much speed or drastically changing direction then energy fighting by using diving speed, as opposed to simply having a sheer engine power advantage, is very compromised.  As I've been mostly driving Fw-190 which has less problems than just about anything in this regard I've been unaware. The Jug's high speed reputation is at least as good as the Butcherbird's, but it doesn't play out that way in-game.

 

PREACH! 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, Fumes said:

During the later half of 1944 most of the German fighters were not D9s or K4s, and certainly not the ones people think of when they imagine those planes. 

 

Most of the 109s from mid-44 up until 1945 were G variants. Most of them G-14s of the non-AS variety. Almost all 190s were A variants, whose performance was little changed from the A-3 we started with in this game. Notice I didnt say "not changed."  

 

So what's the problem? You have the 190 A-8 / F-8, G-6, and the G-14 already in the game. If server operators aren't including them, that's their own damn fault. Quit trying to make this into some ridiculous argument of "only absurdly rare German planes are being modeled." That's plainly not the case, and you know that.

2 hours ago, Fumes said:

And the Allies only get their run of the mill, or not even that. 

 

Geeze, BoBP is still in early access. How about you given them a chance to make things right before raking them over the coals?

Edited November 30, 2018 by LukeFF

[LColony_Kong]

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

So what's the problem? You have the 190 A-8 / F-8, G-6, and the G-14 already in the game. If server operators aren't including them, that's their own damn fault. Quit trying to make this into some "only absurdly rare German planes are being modeled." That's plainly not the case, and you know that.

Learn to read Luke. 

 

I stated that in the past this has always been this way. And the critical issue is that the other planes dont get their proper boost settings, not that the German planes were also included. I never said a K4 should not be in game. 

 

My statement about what is going to happen in the servers is simply what I suspect is going to happen. If these devs included the correct boost settings for the allied fighters it will do alot of offset the fact that everyone and their grandmother is going to fly the K4 and the D9. 

 

Again, what was utterly clear from my post was that the issue is that the Germans always get their rare planes with high boost but the allies never get their normal planes with correct boost. Not that the devs are wrong to put the K4 in the game. 

 

And I think knew that before you posted.

9 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

So what's the problem? You have the 190 A-8 / F-8, G-6, and the G-14 already in the game. If server operators aren't including them, that's their own damn fault. Quit trying to make this into some ridiculous argument of "only absurdly rare German planes are being modeled." That's plainly not the case, and you know that.

 

Geeze, BoBP is still in early access. How about you given them a chance to make things right before raking them over the coals?

This is clearly a statement about past sims. Not this sim. I mean as you pointed out, we dont even know what the P-38 or P-51 are getting boost wise. So how could I comment on all allied planes when all we have right now is a very early P-47 that turns with a sustained 24 degrees per second on the deck with flaps? I mean clearly it is not finished. 

 

Please read more carefully. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Fumes

[Rattlesnake]

Just to be clear, although the P-47’s current biplane-like flap turn can be pretty darn effective when fighting 109s it is also unbelievable and I’ll gladly get rid of it in exchange for actually having some high speed control authority.

[HR_Zunzun]

5 hours ago, CMBailey said:

The 47 at 400 should be able to reach that threshold. Test the Jug yourself. Nowhere near it.

The main gameplay problem with such stick-stirs is that being faster reduces your control authority too much to adjust to such things in due time. And being able to easily defeat faster planes' gun solutions without actually doing anything that drains significant energy and/or a difference in flight paths has all kinds of implications for ACM. If one can to large extent avoid a faster planes just by twitching a bit without losing much speed or drastically changing direction then energy fighting by using diving speed, as opposed to simply having a sheer engine power advantage, is very compromised.  As I've been mostly driving Fw-190 which has less problems than just about anything in this regard I've been unaware. The Jug's high speed reputation is at least as good as the Butcherbird's, but it doesn't play out that way in-game.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/Naca_TN_2899__F-47D-30_Flight_Test.pdf

 

This NACA test gives some figures of elevator authority. At a forward cog at 350mph was something like 11lbs/g. Lower when the cog moved backwards. I think It is a very exhaustive test on thunderbolt manoeuvrability.

Edited November 30, 2018 by HR_Zunzun

[DSR_A-24]

6 hours ago, CMBailey said:

Just to be clear, although the P-47’s current biplane-like flap turn can be pretty darn effective when fighting 109s it is also unbelievable and I’ll gladly get rid of it in exchange for actually having some high speed control authority.

 

The flaps are just too much fun. 30-40% flaps and you're a Thunderspit. Considering they didnt touch the Yaks flaps I'm assuming this is "intended". What's funny is the same scenario was in Aces High but worse. You can pull off the most ridiculous maneuvers with flaps. 

 

I agree though as I'd much rather prefer better authority at high speed.

[CountZero]

32 minutes ago, DSR_T-888 said:

 

The flaps are just too much fun. 30-40% flaps and you're a Thunderspit. Considering they didnt touch the Yaks flaps I'm assuming this is "intended". What's funny is the same scenario was in Aces High but worse. You can pull off the most ridiculous maneuvers with flaps. 

 

I agree though as I'd much rather prefer better authority at high speed.

 

30-40%  i have used 70-100% down on berloga, it turns like crazy and its so stable even in vertical turns. 

[Ehret]

1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

30-40%  i have used 70-100% down on berloga, it turns like crazy and its so stable even in vertical turns. 

 

At the 100% flaps and WEP the current P-47D behaves like a helicopter. You can climb at the stall speed, even... I hope we will get some official statements about that because it just doesn't fell realistic. Yep; it's advantageous to the point you can handle K4s at ease when low and slow but still - it's not right.

[Legioneod]

7 minutes ago, Ehret said:

 

At the 100% flaps and WEP the current P-47D behaves like a helicopter. You can climb at the stall speed, even... I hope we will get some official statements about that because it just doesn't fell realistic. Yep; it's advantageous to the point you can handle K4s at ease when low and slow but still - it's not right.

Does seem incorrect but it is really fun. Iirc P-47s didnt really use flaps in combat because the flaps had a tendency to deploy asymmetricaly instead of at the same time,

[Rattlesnake]

5 hours ago, HR_Zunzun said:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/Naca_TN_2899__F-47D-30_Flight_Test.pdf

 

This NACA test gives some figures of elevator authority. At a forward cog at 350mph was something like 11lbs/g. Lower when the cog moved backwards. I think It is a very exhaustive test on thunderbolt manoeuvrability.

I’ve read that report. ~60-70 pounds to blackout. Well the WWII fighters weren’t being flown by elderly arthritics so there ya go. And two-handing it was definitely an option. 

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

12 hours ago, CMBailey said:

I'm currently looking for the only proof on this issue I know of, a test pilot account I read once comparing the handling of P-51, P-47, and F4U which points out the P-47 having lighter stick forces than the P-51. Since the P-51 was known to have enough elevator control to accidentally *break the airframe* pulling out of dives it follows that the P-47 would at least be able to black out the pilot. But I'm having trouble finding the damn thing.
 

It is here

http://a.moirier.free.fr/Essais en vol/Flight test comparison.pdf

However that P-51 was modified into a 2-seater and had the guns removed
War time had much lower lbs/g then in that test
http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=3877
3 lbs/g without bob weight, 8 lbs/g with bob weight when fuselage tank is empty (condition 5)

 

[Rattlesnake]

1 hour ago, RoflSeal said:

It is here

http://a.moirier.free.fr/Essais en vol/Flight test comparison.pdf

However that P-51 was modified into a 2-seater and had the guns removed
War time had much lower lbs/g then in that test
http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=3877
3 lbs/g without bob weight, 8 lbs/g with bob weight when fuselage tank is empty (condition 5)

 

Makes sense about the P-51. Still, P-47 comes out having the second lightest stick of tested. Yet in Il-2 it really has no more elevator at 375+ than the 109, known for having a heavy stick.

[Meteor2]

21 hours ago, Legioneod said:

 

No problem, I read it before you had added all that stuff. Very cool and interesting.

 

Yep, would be pretty sweet the fly. Would be the fastest thing in the sky besides the 262. (not at all altitudes of course, still the fastest single piston engine fighter of the war iirc.)

 

Maybe not.

Accordingly to Wikipedia (yes, Wikipedia... ), the Do 335 was 13 km/h faster.

 

P-47 M   762 km/h at 9750 m

Do 335   775 km/h at 6400 m

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ooops,... you talked about SINGLE engine fighter...

Edited November 30, 2018 by JG4_Meteor2

[Voyager]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:34 AM, Legioneod said:

The cockpit itself is very different from the P-47 we currently have. They would have to do a complete rework of the current model if they wanted to add it as a modification.

 

 

How so? I've been flipping through a P-47N and the cockpit doesn't seem that different from the earlier models. In fact I found it striking the way many of the gauges for the newer features seemed basically bolted on to the earlier thunderbolt cockpit. 

 

Granted, I was only comparing it to the Il-2 1946 D-5 razor back models, so it's not the Great Battles D-28, but I am curious how different they were in practice. 

[LukeFF]

4 minutes ago, Voyager said:

 

 

How so? I've been flipping through a P-47N and the cockpit doesn't seem that different from the earlier models. In fact I found it striking the way many of the gauges for the newer features seemed basically bolted on to the earlier thunderbolt cockpit. 

 

Granted, I was only comparing it to the Il-2 1946 D-5 razor back models, so it's not the Great Battles D-28, but I am curious how different they were in practice. 

 

The instrument panel layout changed entirely with the D-30, plus other various changes on the sidewalls. 

[Voyager]

19 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The instrument panel layout changed entirely with the D-30, plus other various changes on the sidewalls. 

Interesting. Did the changes not carry over into the N? Or am I just miss-mapping where things were? 

 

I guess I'll have to go dig up some photos and see... 

 

Though to be fair, if we were going to spend time on a new Thunderbolt, I'd rather a D-5 or even a C-2 with the available field upgrades to bring them up to later war standards. P-47 in April 1943 maps? Yes please. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Voyager

[Legioneod]

36 minutes ago, JG4_Meteor2 said:

 

Maybe not.

Accordingly to Wikipedia (yes, Wikipedia... ), the Do 335 was 13 km/h faster.

 

P-47 M   762 km/h at 9750 m

Do 335   775 km/h at 6400 m

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ooops,... you talked about SINGLE engine fighter...

Yep, fastest single engine fighter. It be even faster if we got the P-47J (was just an experiment so it never entered into production) It achieved a top speed of 505 mph (812 km/h)

16 minutes ago, Voyager said:

Interesting. Did the changes not carry over into the N? Or am I just miss-mapping where things were? 

 

I guess I'll have to go dig up some photos and see... 

 

Just using two different games P-47 cockpits to show quick differences:

 

Here's the D-30, the P-47M would be pretty much the same as this.

 

Here's the D-28 (the one we have in-game)

 

As you can see the panel layout is completely different, and would require a new model in order to get a D-30 or M in the game. The P-47N is similar in layout to the D-30 but there are differences and the N has autopilot systems as well.

 

The Devs could model a D-27 or earlier much easier because the cockpit remained the same and pretty much didn't change at all. All they'd have to do in order to model a D-27 would be to add a hamilton prop and it would need some rework on the FM due to speed differences.

[Rattlesnake]

There are probably thousands of people who will pay $20 for a P-47M so that’s a factor.

[Legioneod]

4 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

There are probably thousands of people who will pay $20 for a P-47M so that’s a factor.

I certainly would. I'd pay even more for a razorback as long as it has late war power settings.

 

I think they should release more than two collector aircraft for bodenplatte (if they make any at all). Two for allies (one American and one British) and two for the axis.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Legioneod

[Rattlesnake]

38 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

I certainly would. I'd pay even more for a razorback as long as it has late war power settings.

 

I think they should release more than two collector aircraft for bodenplatte (if they make any at all). Two for allies (one American and one British) and two for the axis.

Can’t say I would, unless the 47s get sbetter elevator authority at speed and somewhat more generous power limits. I’d pay twice as much as that to get the regular D with those attributes soonish.

Yeah,  a Jug appropriate to ‘43 would be great to have simply because it would be less of an underdog in a plane set from that era.

[Legioneod]

2 minutes ago, CMBailey said:

Can’t say I would, unless the 47s get sbetter elevator authority at speed and somewhat more generous power limits. I’d pay twice as much as that to get the regular D with those attributes soonish.

Yeah,  a Jug appropriate to ‘43 would be great to have simply because it would be less of an underdog in a plane set from that era.

Well, razorbacks were used up util the very end of the war and had the same power settings late in the war as the bubbletops.

 

I agree with you about the high speed handling, it's incorrect based of all the data available and even 109s outmaneuver it at high speed dives which is incorrect as well.

Currently as it is modeled the P-47 needs alot of work.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Legioneod

[69th_Panp]

Which 3 of those was it ??

Just now, Panp said:

Which 3 of those was it ??

 

2 hours ago, JG4_Meteor2 said:

 

Maybe not.

Accordingly to Wikipedia (yes, Wikipedia... ), the Do 335 was 13 km/h faster.

 

P-47 M   762 km/h at 9750 m

Do 335   775 km/h at 6400 m

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ooops,... you talked about SINGLE engine fighter...