Flying the LaGG and the ME109 - my view

[Rivet]

That's odd. It's the other way round for me. The LaGG is almost impossible but the 109 flies smooth as silk - a real pleasure. I did find the 109 overly twitchy but then I used the "Adjustable Stabilizer" controls and that solved my problems. Worth a try pilotpierre.

 

Now all I have to do is tame the LaGG.

[AX2]

The FM of Lagg 3 is totally reworked, for stall characteristics.

The Lagg 3 stalls work like if the plane have slats, aim the plane nose 60º to 70º up to force a stall, the stall is very very gentile. a small child can leave the stall easyly.

Only leave the stick and put a little rudder. They made a huge change in FM

 

The BF 109 now is more stable, 

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mustang

[Uriah]

From what Extreme_One wrote I will keep with sliders moved all the way to the left.  In IL2 1946 I kept roll and yaw at 100 all the way across but on the pitch I started at 100 and went down to 60 as I moved to the right.  That made for very steady flying.  It seemed that it was all in the pitch.

[busdriver]

On 2/9/2014 at 4:46 PM, Mustang said:

The BF 109 now is more stable, 

...

Edited March 11, 2022 by busdriver

[AX2]

That sadly for me, is NOT my experience.

The BF 109 have 2 problems

 

Adjustable Stabilizer, 

( " Plane trim  " )  in BoS  is extremely sensitive between 280 and 420 kmh for the BF 109 ) is very difficul get a fine tuning to stabilize the Crosshair, 

In a dogfight ,  losing speed and gaining speed again is a madness between 280 and 420 kmh , all the time you must be change the Adjustable Stabilizer,  for small changes of speed

The best  is fly all the time as fast as you can, full nose trim down 

 

Rudder responce. 

The BF 109 have a more sensitive rudder than the Lagg 3. between 30% and 80% of rudder imput.

but I'm not sure, I don´t have rudder pedals.

 

But I think  the BF 109 is more stable now  " all arround "

Edited February 9, 2014 by Mustang

[JtD]

FWIW, I measured the yaw and AoA in my video. Measurements indicate a maximum of about 60° in yaw and 55° in AoA. Plusminus 5°. Pretty good for a WW2 fighter aircraft notorious for handling problems. Unfortunately I haven't been able to do the same thing at high speed, would be interesting in a fight.

[Zak]

Quick question...what time does the game session end on weekends?

20:00 GMT

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

Sensitivity slider is all the way to the right Fifi, always has been.

 

That creates huge controllability issues once you travel an inch or so past center.  Sensitivity basically pushes the problem further from the center the farther to the right you move the slider.  The flip side is that you are exponentially increasing that problem for those instances where the stick hits that rising part of the curve.  Personally I have everything set at .2 which feels quite good in both planes.  The nicest part of my setup is the Saitek Pro pedals which have a nice, long throw.

 

BTW, what were you flying acro in?

[andyw248]

Adjustable Stabilizer, 

( " Plane trim  " )  in BoS  is extremely sensitive between 280 and 420 kmh for the BF 109 ) is very difficul get a fine tuning to stabilize the Crosshair, 

In a dogfight ,  losing speed and gaining speed again is a madness between 280 and 420 kmh , all the time you must be change the Adjustable Stabilizer,  for small changes of speed

The best  is fly all the time as fast as you can, full nose trim down 

 

Two thoughts here:

• You are right, when you change your speed while flying you need to re-trim almost constantly. That's flying  ...
• However, the sensitivity of the 109 adjustable stabilizer is indeed wrong. I filed a bug about this a while ago: According to some test reports, the trim wheel in the Bf-109 was designed to be used in conjunction with the flaps wheel: The pilot could rotate the flaps and trim wheels together, to lower the flaps and at the same time counteract the nose-heaviness resulting from lowering the flaps. This was because the two wheels were mounted concentrically. The effect was achieved by requiring 4 full revolutions of the flap wheel to completely lower the flaps, and 5.75 revolutions of the trim wheel to completely rotate the angle of incidence of the stabilizer end-to-end. In the week 2 and 3 models of the Bf-109, the trim wheel operates to fast. It takes only 1 single revolution end-to-end. The flaps wheel takes 8 revolutions. They should both be changed to flaps: 4 and trim: 5.75 end-to-end. This would allow to assign these two wheels to neighboring switches on say the throttle quadrant, and be operated simultaneously like in the real aircraft.

[Venturi]

109 should have poor yaw stability http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/124/language/en-US/Bouncing-Clouds--Flying-the-Messerschmitt-Bf-109.aspx

[Wolfstriked]

20:00 GMT

 Thanks.

[Georgio]

I haven't touched the joystick sliders on my set-up since day one; I find both planes equally enjoyable to fly though of the two I do prefer the LaGG as it's more difficult imo...^^

[pilotpierre]

BTW, what were you flying acro in?

Mainly 152 Aerobat, occasionally in different mates Yak, N/Chang and 2 seater Pitts.

 

Needless to say I envy you your personal ride.

Edited February 10, 2014 by pilotpierre

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

^^^^^

 

She's getting precious little attention from me atm.  Too much cold and snow. 

[LLv24_Zami]

I haven't touched the joystick sliders on my set-up since day one; I find both planes equally enjoyable to fly though of the two I do prefer the LaGG as it's more difficult imo...^^

 

Second that. I havent had any problems with these planes from the beginning of early access. Both are very nice to fly, no need to adjust joystick settings with X-52 pro

[Sokol1]

Thats what i was wondering, was the elevator even adjustable in flight in rl?

 

Take a look , the whell (1) in left side turn a screw (26) that adjust elevator incidence, and since they are mechanical liked move the control collum center position too.

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/2ey9q2p.png

 

Sokol1

Edited February 11, 2014 by Sokol1

[Wandalen]

Second that. I havent had any problems with these planes from the beginning of early access. Both are very nice to fly, no need to adjust joystick settings with X-52 pro

Same here, same joystick :-)

[SvAF/F16_Svanen]

I think one cannot compare different joystick settings if we do not have the exact same setup, because we all have different and also the wear of the joystick and how we sit when flying.

 

For me I have a Warthog and have all the slider to the right for the moment and I have a more stable flight then before. All linear with 1:1 with the Warthog makes it very sensitive, but my Warthog has become somewhat sticky and not that smooth that it used to be. And that is a real problem when I set to all to the left, I think I will need to mod my Warthog to get it smooth again.

 

You cannot compare flying an MS FFB stick with a Warthog or a X-52, totally different feeling in the stick.

Edited February 11, 2014 by F16_Svanen

[Fifi]

Have a Warthog too, and had to give some sensitivity adjustments too.

But not slider all way to the right! 

0.2 sensitivity seems to be about right here, just have to be gentle on stick 

[Capt_Hook]

Extend your Hog and those issues will go away. 

[dburne]

Have a Warthog too, and had to give some sensitivity adjustments too.

But not slider all way to the right! 

0.2 sensitivity seems to be about right here, just have to be gentle on stick 

 

That is about where I am running the sensitivity on my Warthog.

[VO101_MMaister]

It doesn`t really matter what sort of stick or setting you have. The way too effective rudder of the bf109 and the heavy oscillation following sudden pitch or jaw movements are very odd. I am using full size replica bf109 controls with original strokes and hydraulic damping, still this is how i feel.

 

I don`t consider my IRL flying experience totally relevant, because I am flying gliders and motorgliders only. But I showed these issues to a mate who is military pilot and has many hours on Jak52 and Harvard (and also a simulator fan). He also found these very unrealistic.

Edited February 12, 2014 by VO101VO101_MMaister

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

-snip- I nailed the landing no problems, just wondering if you are having any issues with your joystick -snip-

 

Nothing wrong with my joystick, it flies the LaGG and RoF just fine.

 

If it isn't the joystick could it perhaps be that you're just not used to the F-4?

[303_Kwiatek]

I made some more 109 flight test tonight and i think i know what is causing rudder overreaction.

 

It is big gyroscopic moment.  It is noticable also  with negative pitch apply -   planes is making the same flick roll like with rudder kick.

 

Actually 109 fly like it has 1300 HP rotary engine in front not inline engine.

 

I think if gyroscopic moment will be reduced it would also affect for more realistic rudder work and negative pitch. Otherwise pitch work more better now with much less spring back movement. Also still there is need more realistic slats working and also more noticable force fedback effect ( stall shake).

 

Lagg3 doesn't have such big gyro moment thats why its rudder work more realistic.

Edited February 14, 2014 by Kwiatek