Lotfe 7 (and russian counterparts)

[Meteor2]

Years ago, when Il2 was very new and I saw it in comparison to CoD, where I flew mostly He 111, I found the bombsight to be a step back.

I that time the  devs were not  interessted in doing it similar to CoD. 

Is the number of pilots, being in favor of a Lotfe 7 really so small ? 

I am really missing it. ? 

[InProgress]

I love clod bombsight, that was really immersive. Sitting in that position, setting everything up while looking at console and just pressing buttons ?

 

But I don't think bombers are popular, so doubt there will be any focus on them.

[Retnek]

1 hour ago, JG4_Meteor2 said:

...

Is the number of pilots, being in favor of a Lotfe 7 really so small ? 

I am really missing it. ? 

Missing it, too, badly. I remember what was possible with the late Il2-46-mods and miss it even more. Anyhow, in IL2-BoX one has to deal correctly with the main factors of level bombing, too. That's ok as a stopgap. We've seen great efforts for simulating the adjustable late-war gun-sights (gyro voodoo), maybe one fine day a developer will focus on bombing-sights with a comparable level of detail?

[[ER]Nordseefischer]

me, too.

 

I miss the Lotfe since IL2 1946.

Also the Stuvi for Ju87 and Ju88.

 

 

[ShamrockOneFive]

I doubt it's an issue of not being interested in rather of priorities. They've had a lot to deal with in the last few years. I do hope we'll see them have a look at bombsights again, at the Stuvi dive bomb sight, and at the Stuka's auto pullout system. The fellow who is doing the great work on the Mark II GGS and K-14 (and the EZ 42?) may be eventually looking at that sort of thing. Or something else important for the series.

[40plus]

While I do love this sim, I too am hugely disappointed with the bomber implementation. I'd love to see historically accurate level bombing. They put so much effort into the fighters but the bombers get the short end of the stick. . . . . Why not both?

[Meteor2]

3 hours ago, pfrances said:

While I do love this sim, I too am hugely disappointed with the bomber implementation. I'd love to see historically accurate level bombing. They put so much effort into the fighters but the bombers get the short end of the stick. . . . . Why not both?

 

So true.

While differences between the Bf 109, model E, F, G, there weaponry, superchargers, ... are discussed in length (not criitizising this), a fundamental part, als the Lotfe is missing. Hopefully we will see some love for the bomber details, too. ???O

[Livai]

5 hours ago, pfrances said:

While I do love this sim,

 

It's a game with sim elements - Is this not what the Devs said many times? If you love to have a sim that's DCS World or CloD Team Fusion......

[InProgress]

1 hour ago, Livai said:

 

It's a game with sim elements - Is this not what the Devs said many times? If you love to have a sim that's DCS World or CloD Team Fusion......

That's not the point. Point is low priority for bombers or attackers. It's understandable but it's really sad that nothing much was done for them in a long time. Still no ju87B2 for Moscow campaign, no autorecovery, no bombsight for ju87/8, no arming bombs panel animation. And new expansion won't get anything but fighters.

 

Next is probably pacific with lots of work on ships, new planes etc. So i doubt we will ever see any of these things done.

[JG4_dingsda]

Well, I don't think they are still "somewhere in the plans". No reason not to bump this thread once in a year, though.

Edited November 2, 2018 by JG4_dingsda

[Retnek]

1 hour ago, Livai said:

It's a game with sim elements - Is this not what the Devs said many times? If you love to have a sim that's DCS World or CloD Team Fusion......

 

Hm, here the IL2-BoX dev's are overmodest and try to evade the all-time over-demanding customers. IL2-BoX is a aiming to be a "simulator". Sooner or later they want to deliver quality and realism in any aspect, too. And they do, step by step. But we all know it's a business and money has to be earned with popular features. Fighter features are popular ...

 

Looking at DCS I can't see that much more depth in simulation except the level of detail within the planes. The (modern) DCS-planes present much more details and demand more dedication, that's true & fine. But that's not necessarily a sign for the depth of a simulation, in the first place it's just a lot more details to learn and remember. The environment, weather, radar, some flight models etc are still done with partly rough simplifications. In most aspects important for me DCS has a simulation level comparable to IL2-BoX or IL2-CloD. No wonder, the PC is limited platform.

  Being so much more a simulation is a cultivated myth by the DCS-crowd. There's a lot of marketing involved. DCS presents itself as a demanding top-product, maybe fishing for the freaks and enthusiasts. IL2-BoX prefers a certain degree of understatement. More easy to learn planes and procedures attracting casual pilots, people growing out of the War Thunder gaming and history buffs. This might help to split the market.

[Frenchy56]

8 hours ago, pfrances said:

While I do love this sim, I too am hugely disappointed with the bomber implementation. I'd love to see historically accurate level bombing. They put so much effort into the fighters but the bombers get the short end of the stick. . . . . Why not both?

It's probably because they had to pick one option first because of the limited timeframe and budget they always speak about.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

17 hours ago, JG4_Meteor2 said:

Years ago, when Il2 was very new and I saw it in comparison to CoD, where I flew mostly He 111, I found the bombsight to be a step back.

I that time the  devs were not  interessted in doing it similar to CoD. 

Is the number of pilots, being in favor of a Lotfe 7 really so small ? 

I am really missing it. ? 

 

If anything, I would just point out that what we have currently in the game, is the actual Lotfe 7 bombsight

The bombsight depicted in CloD and the old IL2 1946 is the older BZG2 bombsight as far as I'm aware.

So the developpers got it right here.

 

For those interested (and reading German), some nice documentation about the Lotfe7 on This Page

 

However, what I'm missing, and probably what you meant, are the keyboard controls (I hate mouse controls) and the need to compute your TAS and actual altitude.

Too much simplification went into the BoX bombsight and it is too easy to get accurate with it. No skill/brain needed. 

 

By the way, if you don't know what Feedback to send to Jason and the team with the new Feedback feature, you can always tell them that you want more attention and realism for bombers. That's what I did 

Edited November 2, 2018 by F/JG300_Gruber

[Meteor2]

4 hours ago, JG4_dingsda said:

Well, I don't think they are still "somewhere in the plans". No reason not to bump this thread once in a year, though.

 

Hello dingsda!

I wasn't aware, that it is a yearly topic. ?

But nevertheless, sometimes it may be worthwhile to remember the old "Moebelwagen", too. ?

[Meteor2]

22 minutes ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

 

If anything, I would just point out that what we have currently in the game, is the actual Lotfe 7 bombsight

The bombsight depicted in CloD and the old IL2 1946 is the older BZG2 bombsight as far as I'm aware.

So the developpers got it right here.

 

For those interested (and reading German), some nice documentation about the Lotfe7 on This Page

 

However, what I'm missing, and probably what you meant, are the keyboard controls (I hate mouse controls) and the need to compute your TAS and actual altitude.

Too much simplification went into the BoX bombsight and it is too easy to get accurate with it. No skill/brain needed. 

 

By the way, if you don't know what Feedback to send to Jason and the team with the new Feedback feature, you can always tell them that you want more attention and realism for bombers. That's what I did 

 

Hello F/JG300_Gruber

 

thanks for the link to the documentation.

Another good source is the "Luftfahrt Archiv Hafner". There you can find the "D. (Luft) T.7002" - document for Lotfe and BZG 2.

 

From this, I thought, that Lotfe 7C is modelled (nearly) in CoD.

This picture of the bombardiers station (left) is much more immersive than the Il2 sturmovik station.
The reason, why I am missing it. On the right, the real thing.

 

         

 

But maybe in the future .....

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Agreed ! The bomber station in the Heinkel is clearly lacking in the cosmetic department !

 

All hope is not lost however, the crank handle for the bomb bay doors was finally animated only in the last update. I hope more goodies are coming along the next few updates for bomber fans

Edited November 2, 2018 by F/JG300_Gruber