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Posted

Hello everyone.

 

Please excuse me for posting what may seem like a cheeky question as a brand new member but without a little advice, I'm chasing my tail until I disappear up you know where.... Allow me to explain.

 

First off, I'm not really a gamer, my main hobby interest is making models. My grown up sons have the X-Boxes, Play Stations, etc and they don't interest me at all but I DO like some of the simulation type games designed for the pc and I bought IL-2 soon after it came out and loved it even though my standard, off the shelf, pc could hardly run it at the time.

 

I understand almost nothing about computers other than how to switch one on and use it and most of the jargon surrounding their power and inner workings just fries my brain. It seems the more I read, the more confused I become.. I know it's possible to spend a fortune on custom built set ups but bearing in mind that my only interest is in IL-2 and possibly a few military strategy type games, is it possible to buy an off the shelf gaming pc capable of running them to an acceptable standard without breaking the bank?

 

The second part to the question is what to view it on. I have a top spec 50" Samsung 4k television with surround sound set up which seems like a fun prospect but if you advise me that a regular pc monitor would be a better option, I'll go that route.. I can live with less than total perfection, as long as the game is playable and the graphics not too blocky.

 

All advice gratefully received but please keep it light and fluffy for the Noob Luddite. ☺️

 

Thanks, all.

Richard.

 

  • Like 1
II/JG17_HerrMurf
Posted

So, it's a definite yes to the TV. I'm using a simple 1080 60hz TV and it is excellent. I do strongly recommend a good stick, TrakIR and some decent rudder pedals. As to the computer, you may need to define, "break the bank," but there are numerous systems out there, particularly online retail, that probably fit the bill. What is your budget?

 

My gear is in my sig. It's upper mid-range/lower high end for the most part, a little dated, but drives the game like a whipped pony with it's tail on fire. No issues at ultra settings and almost everything maxed out.

  • Like 1
Mitthrawnuruodo
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, richard23 said:

is it possible to buy an off the shelf gaming pc capable of running them to an acceptable standard without breaking the bank?

Yes. For reasonable performance at moderate settings with a 1080p resolution, look for something with at least a GTX 1050 Ti, 8 GB RAM, and any Ryzen or recent Intel Core or even Pentium processor. 

For higher settings and very smooth performance, go for a GTX 1060 and a 4+ GHz Core or Ryzen CPU. 

 

10 hours ago, richard23 said:

I have a top spec 50" Samsung 4k television with surround sound set up which seems like a fun prospect but if you advise me that a regular pc monitor would be a better option, I'll go that route..

For driving 4K resolution without serious performance issues, you'll need a very strong graphics card, e.g., GTX 1070. Alternatively, you can run the game at a lower resolution. A simple 1080p monitor may be easier to use in this case.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
  • Like 1
Posted

Would a GTX 1060 run his monitor?

-332FG-Gordon200
Posted

Richard,

 

Items to look for are a processor with speed above 3.0 Mhz, Memory (RAM DDR4) 16 Gb, a solid state drive (SSD) for operating system and IL*2 (preferably a M.2 NVMe) and a reliable cooling system.

As stated above you should have a decent joystick and a head tracking system such as TrackIR. 

I think you would be happy with this rig or similar.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883102382R&ignorebbr=1

Welcome to IL*2 and best wishes. This is a great community with lots of folks that are willing to take you under their wing so to speak. Don't be afraid to ask for help.

Cheers

  • Thanks 1
Posted

Hi, guys.

 

First off. A big "Thank you" for the replies and the help. I'm like a fish out of water when it comes to computers and technology, which makes me an easy target for being conned by retailers and why I thought it sensible to ask here before buying anything.

 

Going on the recommended specs given by Mitthrawnuruodo, I'm looking at a rig with the GTX 1070 graphics card..... So far, I have a choice of two but there's £100+ price difference which seems to be down to the CPU.

 

Both run Windows 10, both have the GTX 1070 and both have 8gb RAM.

The cheaper one has an AMD Athlon X4 950 3.8 GHz Quad Core CPU and a 1TB hard disk.

The more expensive unit has an AMD Ryzen 3 1300X 3.7 GHz Quad Core CPU and a 2TB hard disk.

 

Of course I realise that the more expensive option is going to be a better unit  but is it overkill for my needs?... At close to £900 it's really pushing my budget and I still have to factor in the cost of rudder pedals and control stick (I'm happily married and would like to stay that way)!

 

Sorry to be a PITA with all the questions, folks but I was always taught to ask if ya don't know.☺️

 

ATB. Richard.

Posted

Richard, Il-2 and older strategy games mostly use one core only, so single core/thread performance is crucial here, particularly if you fly offline where the AI makes quite a demand on the CPU.

You can check CPUs here: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html

Intels are performing generally better in this respect, but they are also more expensive. I'd say the Athlon X4 is rather weak, don't take it, the Ryzen 3 is better, but as of now I wouldn't buy anything below the benchmark ~2000. If you're tight on budget, it's better to have a GTX 1060 and a better CPU than a beefy GPU and a weak CPU. (I have an 1050 Ti and an i5 scoring ~1950, and the bottleneck of my system @ 1080p is the CPU, not the GPU.)

II/JG17_HerrMurf
Posted

No apologies/PITA. Question and player interaction are one of the main reasons these forums flourish.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Posted
1 hour ago, Gordon200 said:

Items to look for are a processor with speed above 3.0 Mhz, Memory (RAM DDR4) 16 Gb, a solid state drive (SSD) for operating system and IL*2 (preferably a M.2 NVMe) and a reliable cooling system.

This isn't good advice. SSD storage has zero effect on performance in Il-2 beyond loading times. 16 GB of RAM will give no additional performance as 8 GB is sufficient. The 3.0 GHz? speed is meaningless as different architectures perform differently at the same clock speed. 

 

46 minutes ago, richard23 said:

Going on the recommended specs given by Mitthrawnuruodo, I'm looking at a rig with the GTX 1070 graphics card..... So far, I have a choice of two but there's £100+ price difference which seems to be down to the CPU.

 

Both run Windows 10, both have the GTX 1070 and both have 8gb RAM.

The cheaper one has an AMD Athlon X4 950 3.8 GHz Quad Core CPU and a 1TB hard disk.

The more expensive unit has an AMD Ryzen 3 1300X 3.7 GHz Quad Core CPU and a 2TB hard disk.

The Ryzen is much better. However, keep in mind that this is still a low-end CPU for Il-2. Nevertheless, you'll usually be limited by the graphics card at 4K resolution, so put most of your money towards it if you decide to use your TV.

 

52 minutes ago, richard23 said:

Of course I realise that the more expensive option is going to be a better unit  but is it overkill for my needs?

The truth is that it's tough to get a 4K gaming PC on a tight budget. Even a GTX 1070 won't perform flawlessly. That's why I'd suggest targeting a lower resolution like 1080p to make it easier to find a balanced graphics card/CPU combination.

 

18 minutes ago, sniperton said:

This is indeed an excellent resource for comparing CPUs.

Posted

Again. Thanks for the great feedback you're giving me, guys.

 

I'm starting to sort of figure out some of the technical lingo but knowing me, that could be dangerous!..... It seems to be that when it comes to CPU and Graphics, the bigger the numbers the more powerful they are..... Hmmm. Could be wrong but the price certainly seems to go up in line with the numbers...

 

After some more searching and study, I've come up with..... Intel Core i7 8086K, Coffee Lake, 6-Core with Hyperthreading, 4.0GHz, 5.0GHz Turbo  for a CPU and 

8GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 XC ULTRA, 2944 Cores, 14000MHz GDDR6 - GeForce RTX VR Ready on the graphics front.

 

As an alternative to the above CPU, someone suggested. Intel Core i7 8700K, Coffee Lake, 6-Core with Hyperthreading, 3.7GHz but having it overlocked to 4.8 GHz......... This would be less costly but I have no idea what it means, other than reading that it would run hotter so need better cooling.

 

The price is going up a lot but I've decided I'll get what it takes to do the job properly, even though it will take me longer to save up...... I may as well do the job right and do it once, rather than penny pinch just to get something quickly and regret it...... I've waited a good few years to take the plunge so another few months waiting won't hurt.

 

One thing's for sure. When I'm up and running, my sons can keep their fingers off, lol..... "This is dad's toy. You two can keep with the XBox".

Mitthrawnuruodo
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, richard23 said:

I'm starting to sort of figure out some of the technical lingo but knowing me, that could be dangerous!..... It seems to be that when it comes to CPU and Graphics, the bigger the numbers the more powerful they are..... Hmmm. Could be wrong but the price certainly seems to go up in line with the numbers...

Yes, that's generally true. However, many parts have almost no effect on gaming performance.

 

39 minutes ago, richard23 said:

After some more searching and study, I've come up with..... Intel Core i7 8086K, Coffee Lake, 6-Core with Hyperthreading, 4.0GHz, 5.0GHz Turbo  for a CPU and 

8GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 XC ULTRA, 2944 Cores, 14000MHz GDDR6 - GeForce RTX VR Ready on the graphics front.

Now, this is very close to the ultimate setup for Il-2. I would call it totally overkill if you're not extremely concerned by graphics and performance. Computer hardware suffers from rapidly diminishing returns at the high end.

 

The truth is that the CPU doesn't really matter for Il-2 as long as it's just fast enough. You won't notice a major difference as long as you've got a Core or Ryzen CPU that boosts to 4+ GHz.

 

Graphics card performance is what really matters, because the requirements rapidly increase with resolution. The new RTX 20 series units are very expensive. A GTX 10 series card can give you much the same performance for a much lower price (the new ray tracing tech is irrelevant for Il-2). 

 

39 minutes ago, richard23 said:

The price is going up a lot but I've decided I'll get what it takes to do the job properly, even though it will take me longer to save up...... I may as well do the job right and do it once, rather than penny pinch just to get something quickly and regret it...... I've waited a good few years to take the plunge so another few months waiting won't hurt.

It's generally better to just buy the best thing that you can afford now. The tech moves forward so quickly that the high-end parts become obsolete very quickly. The truth is that you can have a great experience with a desktop for less than $1000 US. (again, not at 4K). 

 

The best thing that you can do is post specification and prices for specific offers that you've found. Then, we'll be able to tell you whether they're reasonable. 

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo
  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

Yes, that's generally true. However, many parts have almost no effect on gaming performance.

 

Now, this is very close to the ultimate setup for Il-2. I would call it totally overkill if you're not extremely concerned by graphics and performance. Computer hardware suffers from rapidly diminishing returns at the high end.

 

The truth is that the CPU doesn't really matter for Il-2 as long as it's just fast enough. You won't notice a major difference as long as you've got a Core or Ryzen CPU that boosts to 4+ GHz.

 

Graphics card performance is what really matters, because the requirements rapidly increase with resolution. The new RTX 20 series units are very expensive. A GTX 10 series card can give you much the same performance for a much lower price (the new ray tracing tech is irrelevant for Il-2). 

 

It's generally better to just buy the best thing that you can afford now. The tech moves forward so quickly that the high-end parts become obsolete very quickly. The truth is that you can have a great experience with a desktop for less than $1000 US. (again, not at 4K). 

 

The best thing that you can do is post specification and prices for specific offers that you've found. Then, we'll be able to tell you whether they're reasonable. 

 

From your reply I'm guessing the single CPU I quoted is going to be better than overclocking the smaller one....... 

 

Is it of any benefit to "overclock" on the graphics card to boost it's power?.... I can find a GTX 1080 for a lot less money than an RTX 20 but would I get better graphics running two GTX 1070 cards together?.. From various articles I'm reading, it seems I would.... Obviously increasing the power and cooling to match.

 

From what I'm reading around the forum, the original IL-2 would certainly run well but I'd also like to get clear graphics with all the IL-2 Titles. I believe BOS is the most demanding at the moment and I'm certainly interested in "Rise of Flight"..... I can't see myself ever being tempted by Fast Jet sims or spacecraft though. From a purely historical aspect, I love all things aviation until the jets came along. I can live with the Me 262 and the Meteor but after that, I lose interest fast.

 

Best.

Richard.

Edited by richard23
Mitthrawnuruodo
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, richard23 said:

From your reply I'm guessing the single CPU I quoted is going to be better than overlocking the smaller one...

The i7-8700K and i7-8086K are actually identical except for a slight difference in clock speed. With the 8700K overclocked to 8086K speeds, it would be identical. You should keep in mind that overclocking requires unlocked CPUs, specific motherboard chipsets, a bit of luck, and some tweaking to find the best settings.

14 hours ago, richard23 said:

I'm also guessing that "overlocking" in computer speak, is similar to doubling up two 12 volt batteries to give a 24 volt system as used in trucks?

That’s part of it. While increasing the frequency in small increments, you increase the voltage as required to keep the CPU stable. Power (and therefore heat) rapidly grow as you go higher. Expect a ~10% performance increase with most CPUs.

 

You can get a similar increase with GPU overclocking, although that process is much more automated.

 

14 hours ago, richard23 said:

I can find a GTX 1080 for a lot less money than an RTX 20 but would I get better graphics running two GTX 1070 cards together?

Don’t waste your time with multi-GPU setups. Performance does not scale well. Besides, a single GTX 1080 is sufficient to run the game at high settings with absolutely no problems.

Edited by Mitthrawnuruodo

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