A Thought on Pricing

[CanadaOne]

The collector's planes might not be inexpensive, but neither are they too expensive. Kinda just right, and with the frequent sales they are perfectly affordable. Cheap enough so that people can buy them and gift them to others. 

 

A DCS Prop will cost me $60, so I have no problem at all shelling out less than half that for a beautifully made BOX prop.

[=RS=Stix_09]

 

33 minutes ago, CanadaOne said:

The collector's planes might not be inexpensive, but neither are they too expensive. Kinda just right, and with the frequent sales they are perfectly affordable. Cheap enough so that people can buy them and gift them to others. 

 

A DCS Prop will cost me $60, so I have no problem at all shelling out less than half that for a beautifully made BOX prop.

What we are prepared to pay is based on how we value things. For me it not good value, for some some ppl that's their choice and I can respect that.

 

My point is this: I get the price and  I could buy? (It's a principle for me and value) What I don't understand is why the difference (does it cost them 6x as much to make a collector plane vs maps and other planes?) (volume of sales, maybe??, but price is likely reason for that)
Happy to pay for work done. I just don't get why they cost so much compared to everything else?

 

Question: Why do some people show what IL-2 GB games own below their Profile ID when they post on this forum?
(I own 3 il-2 GB packages and don't have that? Some people do and some don't , curious as to why )

 

For reference :This is my prices to buy stuff: The most expensive collector plane the JU52 is $36 vs $70 for a full game (I think 8 planes?)and multiple maps etc etc?
So why does it COMPARABLY cost so much? Based on relative pricing this should be $5-$15 (not even close).

 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Stix_09

[ZachariasX]

16 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

It's a principle for me and value

Even the startup sequence of a collectors plane lasts longer than the equal funds invested in decent beer. It is pretty good value for the buck. And you‘re helping your liver. And you can fly that plane in the sim. See? Lottsa value there.

 

If you ever buy early access, you get a bar for that game as well.

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

1 minute ago, ZachariasX said:

Even the startup sequence of a collectors plane lasts longer than the equal funds invested in decent beer. It is pretty good value for the buck. And you‘re helping your liver. And you can fly that plane in the sim. See? Lottsa value there.

 

If you ever buy early access, you get a bar for that game as well.

 

I edited my post, above

[Guest deleted@134347]

25 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

For reference :This is my prices to buy stuff: The most expensive collector plane the JU52 is $36 vs $70 for a full game and multiple maps etc etc?
So why does it COMPARABLY cost so much? Based on retaliative  pricing this should be $5-$10 (not even close).

 

 

 

 

well, that's evident that NZ$ is the problem here.

 

Look, in normal US dollhairs your get 29% discount.  Switch to USD now! ?

 

But in all seriousness (not!) collector planes are a Premium DLC. It allows you to have something that others don't have. Market supply and demand determines the running value of the premium, not your opinion of it. Capitalism and business. What else is new eh...

 

[=RS=Stix_09]

HAHA, ... yep (hard to justify for me)....

But seriously I'm speaking on relative terms.... It makes no sense price wise. (At some point I may buy and just consider it a donation to the devs)

[ZachariasX]

3 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

I edited my post, above

You listed prices, those are Steam? Just looking in the store, you have $20 (US) for a collector and $80 for a game „episode“. So? For what they are, I don‘t think $20 is a lot, provided you don‘t need that dosh for other things. Btw., there are so many sales that make you get them much cheaper. Also, you can buy premium editions of the game also making a collector plane half price.

[=RS=Stix_09]

Ya I have compared steam and website costs, they are the same (when you take exchange rate into consideration). I have purchased off steam and some off website. They are comparable (not taking any sales into account)

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 minute ago, Stix_09 said:

 consider it a donation to the devs)

 

that's how I view my financial transactions with 1CG/777! It helps me with a better sleep at night realizing now that I've spent $313 on a freaking game.. lol  Really.. until I pasted the above screenshot I had no idea I spent that much money.. oh boy.. ?

[Rolling_Thunder]

A lot of the collector planes have been requested by the community ju52 for example. Not many folk will want to purchase a ju52 so maybe the price reflects the development cost against the anticipated sales. They are not a pre requisite for the included BoX campaigns so there really is no need to buy them if you can't afford them. Not owning the ju52 will have no bearing on your SP campaign. Your campaign will not stall or grind to a halt until it is purchased. You will not have a MP server closed to you if you don't own a certain collector plane. If you want them buy them. If you don't, don't buy them. If you think they cost too much don't buy them. Simple really.

[=RS=Stix_09]

41 minutes ago, Rolling_Thunder said:

A lot of the collector planes have been requested by the community ju52 for example. Not many folk will want to purchase a ju52 so maybe the price reflects the development cost against the anticipated sales. They are not a pre requisite for the included BoX campaigns so there really is no need to buy them if you can't afford them. Not owning the ju52 will have no bearing on your SP campaign. Your campaign will not stall or grind to a halt until it is purchased. You will not have a MP server closed to you if you don't own a certain collector plane. If you want them buy them. If you don't, don't buy them. If you think they cost too much don't buy them. Simple really.

The Ju52 is a cool plane, it currently the only plane to fill some roles(ie para troupes for eg)  so it is def one on my I'd like list.

 

I do a lot of single player and now making my own missions, and I could make some cool stuff with some of these collector planes (multi-playerer I also want to do more, but location makes euro servers a problem(ping around 300ms, US servers are better around 150-200ms, but limited server options in that region )

Pings above 250ms are too laggy to really enjoy.

Deadmeat (I think that's right) runs an AU server, and that is a 50ms ping for me.

I'm just starting making some coop missions (maybe I can build some maps for his server in the future) , the editor is very powerful (but could be improved in particular grouping is still clunky)  , just takes a lot of time to make stuff, but that will improve as I build a library of parts, I make stuff as modular as possible to reuse it. I have some training in programming so I know good technique, I wish it had a proper commenting/documenting for coding, so currently that has to be done external)

There is a mission generator , but the code it produces is not user friendly, I don't yet know how to drive that.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Stix_09

[Rjel]

Someone else mentioned the idea that in the future collector planes perhaps have some included missions or a mini campaign. I think that's an excellent idea. Even if that meant an extra $5 to the price, it might show added value to someone hanging on the fence and persuade them to buy. So far, I've really enjoyed the collector planes and hopefully I can continue to purchase them as they appear.

 

After flying combat sims since 1989, I think the wow effect of shooting down another plane has worn off for me for the time being. Now I'm enjoying learning more about how the planes fly. Engine management, taxing, getting good at takeoffs, maneuvers and nailing the perfect landing seem entertaining to me right now. The added value to BoX for me now is that I can shoot things up when the mood strikes me. The rest of my time is just flying around the maps exploring.

[=RS=Stix_09]

4 minutes ago, Rjel said:

Someone else mentioned the idea that in the future collector planes perhaps have some included missions or a mini campaign. I think that's an excellent idea. Even if that meant an extra $5 to the price, it might show added value to someone hanging on the fence and persuade them to buy. So far, I've really enjoyed the collector planes and hopefully I can continue to purchase them as they appear.

 

After flying combat sims since 1989, I think the wow effect of shooting down another plane has worn off for me for the time being. Now I'm enjoying learning more about how the planes fly. Engine management, taxing, getting good at takeoffs, maneuvers and nailing the perfect landing seem entertaining to me right now. The added value to BoX for me now is that I can shoot things up when the mood strikes me. The rest of my time is just flying around the maps exploring.

I think it would be better as an option separate to plane. (like they have done for scripted campaigns, rather than make a collector plane more expensive.

Currently I own only 2 collector planes and they were a delux package inclusion.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Stix_09

[Rjel]

12 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

I think it would be better as an option separate to plane. (like they have done for scripted campaigns, rather than make a collector plane more expensive.

Currently I own only 2 collector planes and they were a delux package inclusion.

How then does that jive with the argument the planes are overpriced as they are sold as stand alones now? Short of selling them cheaper at release, which seems unreasonable to me, how would you suggest making them a better value?

[=RS=Stix_09]

2 minutes ago, Rjel said:

How then does that jive with the argument the planes are overpriced as they are sold as stand alones now? Short of selling them cheaper at release, which seems unreasonable to me, how would you suggest making them a better value?

Only a very few collector planes ALSO come in delux package, And that was a sale purchase for me. BOS I think my first purchase included the LA5 and the FW190 a3.
The delux versions of each standalone (BOS/BOK etc) have 2 collector planes.

 

[Rjel]

1 minute ago, Stix_09 said:

Only a very few collector planes ALSO come in delux package, And that was a sale purchase for me. BOS I think my first purchase included the LA5 and the FW190 a3.
The delux versions of each standalone (BOS/BOK etc) have 2 collector planes.

 

No kidding??? Still, you didn't answer the question on how you'd make them a better value for your consideration to purchase.

[=RS=Stix_09]

(I clicked post before I finished typing:)
To Answer :

It all depends on price, I'm not apposed to selling optional content  (cost dev's to make so they should charge for it). They give us a lot of free upgrades. My query is cost vs value of such items being comparable (to other items and currently: On a comparison bases collector planes are a lot more than any other content. Lets not make them more expensive to putting stuff together everyone may not want , it just make content more costly. Keep it modular and compatible priced, Collector planes are currently NOT comparably priced to a full game purchase IHMO. (Not even close  if you READ my previous posting)

 

So Last time (I hope that my OPINION is now clear):

 

Pricing is EXCELLENT, value for money , BUT IMHO collector planes are overpriced (FOR ME), VS FULL game purchase. (I would consider buying some of these at about half their current prices, Not yet seen Ju52 on sale for more than 30% off)

(some people will agree, some won't)

If/when I do purchase, I'll consider it a donation to the developers, because I want them to stay around and working on this.

 

FYI: Currently several of these interest me: The La5N, Ju52 , P40, MC202 and maybe the Yak 1B

Edited October 30, 2018 by Stix_09

[6./ZG26_Custard]

IMO the pricing is fantastic value for money (and yes I understand that exchange rates will have an effect) particularly when you consider that to purchase  all the modules of "another" flight sim would cost me.. 

 

Edit: I will add i already own several and if I didn't you could add a few hundred quid more to that cost

1 minute ago, Stix_09 said:

Last time:

 

Pricing is EXCELLENT, BUT IMHO collector planes are overpriced (FOR ME).

Last time:

 

Fair enough, we will agree to disagree.

Edited October 30, 2018 by 6./ZG26_Custard
See edit

[CanadaOne]

2 hours ago, Stix_09 said:

 

What we are prepared to pay is based on how we value things. For me it not good value, for some some ppl that's their choice and I can respect that.

 

My point is this: I get the price and  I could buy? (It's a principle for me and value) What I don't understand is why the difference (does it cost them 6x as much to make a collector plane vs maps and other planes?) (volume of sales, maybe??, but price is likely reason for that)
Happy to pay for work done. I just don't get why they cost so much compared to everything else?

 

Question: Why do some people show what IL-2 GB games own below their Profile ID when they post on this forum?
(I own 3 il-2 GB packages and don't have that? Some people do and some don't , curious as to why )

 

For reference :This is my prices to buy stuff: The most expensive collector plane the JU52 is $36 vs $70 for a full game (I think 8 planes?)and multiple maps etc etc?
So why does it COMPARABLY cost so much? Based on relative pricing this should be $5-$15 (not even close).

 

 

I'm just a worker bee, not an accountant or digital artist. The price is as what it is for a reason. I don't understand it, but I accept it. The way I price jobs is a mystery to other people, so fair's fair. To each their field and their prices and their rationale for those prices.

 

But as a worker bee, I find the prices to be fair: a premium price for a premium product. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by CanadaOne

[Rjel]

I think I see the collector planes simply as another avenue to generate income for 1c, which in turn hopefully will help them continue development of the series. Not every single theater or even collector plane has been exactly what my personal preference might be. But I think by supporting them now, I may get what I really am wanting in the future.

 

As mentioned, this team has basically reinvented this sim in the last year or two. All the while, keeping all the different modules in one game. How many games have we all played that had a sequel issued that had many improvements we wish would've been backwards compatible with our older game? More than I care to count. That this sim is doing exactly that, being backwards compatible while making huge improvements at the same time, keeps me on the hook for more collector planes,   add ons, campaigns, etc. I appreciate not everyone agrees with the program or wants to support it, but enough do that it is a viable business strategy for this team. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

On the principle of work once, sell many copies (the core game and hence its pricing) vs. the bonus aircraft that have likely limited sales (work once, sell fewer copies), the calculation is that you need to recoup more money per man-hour on the latter. Evaluating the opportunity cost (what the staff could have been doing instead of making limited-interest a/c) compared to working on a core part of BoBp means that  modules with a smaller likely revenue demand a higher per-unit cost.

 

The DLC a/c are optional, so revenue is less guaranteed as a return on investment of time and money than the individual a/c of the core game. Given this unknown (but probably lower sales), the price per DLC a/c is higher.

[=RS=Stix_09]

On 10/31/2018 at 9:57 PM, EAF19_Marsh said:

On the principle of work once, sell many copies (the core game and hence its pricing) vs. the bonus aircraft that have likely limited sales (work once, sell fewer copies), the calculation is that you need to recoup more money per man-hour on the latter. Evaluating the opportunity cost (what the staff could have been doing instead of making limited-interest a/c) compared to working on a core part of BoBp means that  modules with a smaller likely revenue demand a higher per-unit cost.

 

The DLC a/c are optional, so revenue is less guaranteed as a return on investment of time and money than the individual a/c of the core game. Given this unknown (but probably lower sales), the price per DLC a/c is higher.

I here what you are saying , I would not expect the value to be 1 vs 1 sale value/cost for a full package, but currently a collector plane is over 6x the cost of any other plane you get with the game.

 

My thoughts are if you want to sell more , make them cheaper, I would buy if they were 50% less than currently for the reasons you advised. That is still over 3x the cost of any other plane. Also remember you get much more than just 6 planes with any game version (BOm, BOK etc).

(that is evident from them having discount sales on stuff)

 

Also people buying collector planes are an existing customers , (In my case around $200NZ) that already support you (little customer loyalty goes a long way)

50% of the cost of a full package for 1 plane is IMHO too much, especially for some like me with 2x or more exchange rate cost (28-36$NZ per plane for me currently).

For some its less of a cost.

 

If I do buy it will be a donation to the developer , as I do support them, my only issue on price is collector planes.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[Guest deleted@83466]

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

I here what you are saying , I would not expect the value to be 1 vs 1 sale value/cost for a full package, but currently a collector plane is over 6x the cost of any other plane you get with the game.

 

My thoughts are if you want to sell more , make them cheaper, I would buy if they were 50% less than currently for the reason you advised. That is still over 3x the cost of any other plane. Also remember you get much more than just 6 planes with any game version (BOm, BOK etc).

 

 

 

 

 

They can't just price planes for pennies on the dollar in the assumption that the greater volume of sales will make up for the lower price and cover the develop costs plus a profit, while still maintaining the same level of quality.  I know very little about how prices are set in a marketplace, but I see it as one of those Minima/Maxima problems like you used to have to do in math class, where there is a certain point on a unit cost v profit graph where the profit curve maxes out.  It definitely isn't a linear relationship between pricing and profit, like you make it sound.

[=RS=Stix_09]

5 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

 

 

 

They can't just price planes for pennies on the dollar in the assumption that the greater volume of sales will make up for the lower price and cover the develop costs plus a profit, while still maintaining the same level of quality.  I know very little about how prices are set in a marketplace, but I see it as one of those Minima/Maxima problems like you used to have to do in math class, where there is a certain point on a unit cost v profit graph where the profit curve maxes out.  It definitely isn't a linear relationship between pricing and profit, like you make it sound.

I'm not a marketing guy. But I can tell you in my case (and I'm sure many others) I'd buy a number of these at %50 less, so in my case it's a loss of sales.

If that was the case why have sales?

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[Guest deleted@83466]

8 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

If that was the case why have sales?

 

For the same reason that any other company has periodic sales:  They can profit from having a limited time sale, but if they kept prices like that all the time, their profit would be less, or maybe even be in the red.  Don't you think that if they could maximize their profit by reducing their price by 50% all year round, that they would do that?  Obviously it doesn't work that way, or that's where the standard price point would be set.

 

Look, video games are leisure activities.  As with any other fun activity, or hobby, If you think the amount of pleasure you get isn't worth the cost, then find something else that meets your budget and your cost/benefit expectations.

Edited November 1, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[=RS=Stix_09]

14 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

For the same reason that any other company has periodic sales:  They can profit from having a limited time sale, but if they kept prices like that all the time, they would be in the red.  Don't you think that if they could maximize their profit by reducing their price by 50% all year round, that they would do that?  Obviously it doesn't work that way, or that's where the standard price point would be set.

 

Sure , but also we are talking only about collector planes here. However I still disagree on collector planes cost. I'm pretty sure collector planes are pure revenue. But neither of us really knows , we guess. (ie a donation for me)
Lets just agree to disagree. Like I said many do feel them same as me and many don't. I'd say it's a divisive issue for many.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[54th_Glitter_]

Using "$/minute of joy" ratio,  it is a bargain, ultra cheap. 

Would i wish it was cheaper? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain. (low prob)

Would i wish it was free? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain.(unrealistic)

Do i consider is a good and fair pricing? Absolutely, specially when you look DCS pricing for example, as noted before by many others.

Excellent product and good and fair price. A happy customer here.

[=RS=Stix_09]

9 minutes ago, Glitterman said:

Using "$/minute of joy" ratio,  it is a bargain, ultra cheap. 

Would i wish it was cheaper? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain. (low prob)

Would i wish it was free? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain.(unrealistic)

Do i consider is a good and fair pricing? Absolutely, specially when you look DCS pricing for example, as noted before by many others.

Excellent product and good and fair price. A happy customer here.

Collector planes only nothing else. I get great value out of everything else. (read previous , discussed multiple times already)

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[EAF19_Marsh]

39 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

 

 

 

They can't just price planes for pennies on the dollar in the assumption that the greater volume of sales will make up for the lower price and cover the develop costs plus a profit, while still maintaining the same level of quality.  I know very little about how prices are set in a marketplace, but I see it as one of those Minima/Maxima problems like you used to have to do in math class, where there is a certain point on a unit cost v profit graph where the profit curve maxes out.  It definitely isn't a linear relationship between pricing and profit, like you make it sound.

 

I believe that is marginal revenue = marginal cost. It would suggest that small sale additional aircraft are higher priced.

[Guest deleted@83466]

7 minutes ago, Stix_09 said:

Collector planes only nothing else. I get great value out of everything else. (read previous , discussed multiple times already)

 

Ok.  That's fine.  That's the value/cost curve that customer Stix_09 has set, and in your personal calculation, that ratio is <1.  So don't buy 'em.  But you really want them, don't you? So maybe you're underestimating the value that they could bring to your enjoyment of this game.

Edited November 1, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[JohnHolmes]

20 minutes ago, Glitterman said:

Using "$/minute of joy" ratio,  it is a bargain, ultra cheap. 

Would i wish it was cheaper? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain. (low prob)

Would i wish it was free? For sure, as long as the product quality mantain.(unrealistic)

Do i consider is a good and fair pricing? Absolutely, specially when you look DCS pricing for example, as noted before by many others.

Excellent product and good and fair price. A happy customer here.

Totally agree. I have bought a few collector planes and the dollar to time spent is very worth it compared to most forms of entertainment. Like everything if you dont think that you will get value for money then dont buy it. But we all need to respect that the developers are in the best position to know what their product is worth. They certainly have my trust in knowing they are not over charging. 

 

Anyway the price is what it is which Im happy with. But totally understand others are more financially challenged. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by JohnHolmes

[=RS=Stix_09]

12 minutes ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

 

I believe that is marginal revenue = marginal cost. It would suggest that small sale additional aircraft are higher priced.

Yep no disagreement on that , already said so.

 

Value is different for everyone , double or triple the cost of this stuff  and it may impact you? Everyone has a price point, (I already pay a lot more than some due to exchange rate,some even more)

10 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

 

Ok.  That's fine.  That's the value/cost curve that customer Stix_09 has set, and in your personal calculation, that ratio is <1.  So don't buy 'em.  But you really want them, don't you? So maybe you're underestimating the value that they could bring to your enjoyment of this game.

Nope that is not what I said . That ratio is wrong, I said collector planes were over 6x the cost of any other planes.
Go read my previous posts again.

 

Of course I want some. already discussed that too.

(Reminder only collector planes FOR me are overpriced)

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[Guest deleted@83466]

I got nothing wrong.  My statement about your personal value/cost curve being less than one stands exactly as I stated it:  cost being higher than the value you expect to receive.

 

Seriously man, either don't buy the damned planes that aren't worth it for you, or wait for a sale, like many other cost-conscious consumers do.  This isn't hard.

Edited November 1, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[=RS=Stix_09]

1 minute ago, SeaSerpent said:

I got nothing wrong.  My statement about your personal value/cost curve being less than one stands exactly as I stated it:  cost being higher than the value you expect to receive.

 

I'm saying your wrong about what I value and don't , and its obviously different to you . I can accept your value is different to mine. And I saying your interpretation of my value is wrong.

 

Quote

My thoughts are if you want to sell more , make them cheaper, I would buy if they were 50% less than currently for the reasons you advised. That is still over 3x the cost of any other plane. Also remember you get much more than just 6 planes with any game version (BOm, BOK etc).

 

[Guest deleted@83466]

Then what are you griping about?  If you wanted the planes enough that you were willing to spend 20 bucks, then I guess they set the price point exactly right, didn't they?  If you didn't buy them because $20 was too much, then I guess you personally didn't value them enough to make the purchase; but it doesn't mean that they set their price point wrong for the market.

 

This is getting tiring.  This whole thread is just you indulging in a gripe-fest.

Edited November 1, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[Guest deleted@134347]

Stix_09 is so nonchalant with his soft arguments that it's not upsetting anyone, nor throwing this community off balance, and it almost feels like this topic will continue the life similar to the "DD today". ?

 

"drop in to get a daily load of the collector pricing arguments. We're open!" 

[=RS=Stix_09]

13 minutes ago, SeaSerpent said:

Then what are you griping about?  If you wanted the planes enough that you were willing to spend 20 bucks, then I guess they set the price point exactly right, didn't they?

 

I'm done trying to explain: Its going off topic. I was expressing an opinion (as are you, both of us are right and wrong, depending on perspective, way of the world and why its such a mess)

 

I'm not trying to upset anyone, If that is the case I apologize.

 

I was right about one thing , price is always a divisive issue.?

17 minutes ago, moosya said:

Stix_09 is so nonchalant with his soft arguments that it's not upsetting anyone, nor throwing this community off balance, and it almost feels like this topic will continue the life similar to the "DD today". ?

 

"drop in to get a daily load of the collector pricing arguments. We're open!" 

 

Yep ? 100% on that.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Stix_09

[JG4_dingsda]

28 minutes ago, moosya said:

Stix_09 is so nonchalant with his soft arguments that it's not upsetting anyone, nor throwing this community off balance, and it almost feels like this topic will continue the life similar to the "DD today". ?

 

"drop in to get a daily load of the collector pricing arguments. We're open!" 

Nay, it's too late.

[=RS=Stix_09]

1 minute ago, JG4_dingsda said:

Nay, it's too late.