HDR and SSAO on contacts visibility

[E69_geramos109]

Hi there.  I want to ask you if anyone prooved how to set this parameters on the settings affects the contact visibility. 

I know most of us are using low gamma like 0.8 or 0.9 to see better contrast between the dots of the planes and the terrain. HDR clearly makes the game brighter so my feeling is that makes more difficult the spoting. Between SSAO activated or not i didn t find too much difference. 

So what are your impressions there? How to set this parameters to have better visibility of the contacts?

[purK]

Both HDR and SSAO increase the lighting effects on your canopy, making it harder to see anything. If you don't have a canopy or you leave it open, HDR can actually improve spotting because it makes objects brighter against dark ground textures such as forests, or even above you against the blue sky in some situations.

[THERION]

Hi,

 

if we talk about contact visibility, so my experience is that since I unchecked HDR and SSAO, but checked SHARPEN and set landscape filter to BLURRED,

I spot enemies and/or friendlies much earlier and better than before. It helped a lot to me!

 

With these settings now I can eventually tell who and from where I'm getting shot down...

 

 

[CountZero]

i use gama at 0.7 , monitor on sports option, turn off hdr ssao, sharpen on, land low and i can spot contats below me most of time, problems are guys abow, especialy on stalingrad maps, i noticed depending on map i can spot contacts differant, moscow autum is wors for low contacts, kuban is best for low and high contacts

[kissklas]

3 hours ago, -IRRE-Therion said:

Hi,

 

if we talk about contact visibility, so my experience is that since I unchecked HDR and SSAO, but checked SHARPEN and set landscape filter to BLURRED,

I spot enemies and/or friendlies much earlier and better than before. It helped a lot to me!

 

With these settings now I can eventually tell who and from where I'm getting shot down...

 

 

 

I have never thought of that... Makes sense! Need to try blurred landscape filtering next time.

 

Hdr and screen space ambient occlusion will stay on though. I need my eye candy! xD

[THERION]

13 minutes ago, kissklas said:

 

I have never thought of that... Makes sense! Need to try blurred landscape filtering next time.

 

Hdr and screen space ambient occlusion will stay on though. I need my eye candy! xD

 

Oh, you won't miss your eye candy without these two options - you even will gain some extra FPS!

 

P.S: OK, forget about the extra FPS - just saw your system specs - god damn, you're a lucky man!

Edited October 20, 2018 by -IRRE-Therion

[kissklas]

58 minutes ago, -IRRE-Therion said:

 

Oh, you won't miss your eye candy without these two options - you even will gain some extra FPS!

 

P.S: OK, forget about the extra FPS - just saw your system specs - god damn, you're a lucky man!

 

These days I mostly get shot down, because my flights consist of sitting in the pit drooling over the effects. Shadows high, AO, HDR really makes a difference. I can't go back now.

[THERION]

2 hours ago, kissklas said:

 

These days I mostly get shot down, because my flights consist of sitting in the pit drooling over the effects. Shadows high, AO, HDR really makes a difference. I can't go back now.

 

Oh yes, I forgot to mention the shadows - setting them high helps a lot when dogfighting on low altitude.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

You care about his system specs when this man has the most amazing signature banner in history of the IL-2 series?

[EAF19_Marsh]

Does this also work for Oculus, 'cos I cannot see sh1t at range...

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

4 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Does this also work for Oculus, 'cos I cannot see sh1t at range...

 

I think the problem there might just be resolution.

[SharpeXB]

HDR by definition should help you see other objects better. ——-> High. Dynamic.  Range. 

SSAO is about producing indirect occluded shadows, mostly you see the effect in your own cockpit. Probably a minimal effect on distant objects. 

The very meaning of these terms might tell you how much they help in this regard. 

[EAF19_Marsh]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

HDR by definition should help you see other objects better. ——-> High. Dynamic.  Range. 

SSAO is about producing indirect occluded shadows, mostly you see the effect in your own cockpit. Probably a minimal effect on distant objects. 

The very meaning of these terms might tell you how much they help in this regard. 

 

I am aware of this, my question concerned impact specifically on VR. But thank you for your unnecessarily patronizing answer.

[E69_geramos109]

My Experience with HDR is that it makes the cockpit glass as puting hight gamma making it like less transparent. Maybe comining HDR with Lower gamma setting that the game allows will imporve

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

SSAO and HDR are 2 of the more or less useless features. Very small, if any, benefit using them at cost of FPS. Why is landscape filter called that when it, according to the tooltip, adjusts anisotropic filtering levels? Devs could have given more freedom in adjusting the graphics rather than presets and gimmicks. Even RoF has more adjustments, not to mention other flight games :P

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Have you tried SMAA
SMAA with Reshade helps a lot

SMAA Nearest neighbour blurring adds more pixels, more pixels means easier to spot.
Ingame MSAA Remove extra pixels to smooth an image afaik.

Pic below - there is a big difference in the parked planes visibility if you cant see them then its not the games fault. ?
Left side normal ingame with msaa x2. right side Reshade with smaa Ultra preset.



 

[SharpeXB]

11 minutes ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

SMAA Nearest neighbour blurring adds more pixels, more pixels means easier to spot.
Ingame MSAA Remove extra pixels to smooth an image afaik.

No form of antialiasing can add pixels to your display. Those are fixed by the hardware. AA just smooths the transitions between them. Better AA just provides better smoothing. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

LMAO Lol thats not what im talking about of course not i was talking about rendering which does not care what monitor you have it dont know.

(eg, weather you have a 1080P monitor or a 2560P monitor if you set the game to 2560P on a 1080P screen (via say Nvidia DSR)
it will output the same data to display port as if it were running on a 2560P screen it will not know.)

but anyways im talking about the amount of pixels the game sends out geez..not the physical make of your screens pixel count thats different.

The pic above you can Clearly see the extra pixels (almost double) the game uses to show the same plane at 10km

Actually if u get time zoon in with Gimp and literrally count the pixesl that make up a plane on the runway and compare them if i remember right there was about 45% more than with smaa off.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

(eg, weather you have a 1080P monitor or a 2560P monitor if you set the game to 2560P on a 1080P screen (via say Nvidia DSR)
it will output the same data to display port as if it were running on a 2560P screen it will not know.)

Well Nvidia’s claim that DSR gives you “4K resolution on any screen” is completely false. You are sending a 4K signal to a 1080p screen but what you are seeing is 1920 x 1080 pixels with smoother transitions. But you’re not seeing more pixels because that would be impossible. If your graphics card is strong enough to send a 2160p signal then get a 4K monitor instead of downsamping. It looks much much better. 

[E69_geramos109]

On 10/22/2018 at 7:17 PM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

LMAO Lol thats not what im talking about of course not i was talking about rendering which does not care what monitor you have it dont know.

(eg, weather you have a 1080P monitor or a 2560P monitor if you set the game to 2560P on a 1080P screen (via say Nvidia DSR)
it will output the same data to display port as if it were running on a 2560P screen it will not know.)

but anyways im talking about the amount of pixels the game sends out geez..not the physical make of your screens pixel count thats different.

The pic above you can Clearly see the extra pixels (almost double) the game uses to show the same plane at 10km

Actually if u get time zoon in with Gimp and literrally count the pixesl that make up a plane on the runway and compare them if i remember right there was about 45% more than with smaa off.

 

 

Canyou explain where to set up this graphic config? Is from Nvidia panel?

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

21 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Well Nvidia’s claim that DSR gives you “4K resolution on any screen” is completely false. You are sending a 4K signal to a 1080p screen but what you are seeing is 1920 x 1080 pixels with smoother transitions. But you’re not seeing more pixels because that would be impossible. If your graphics card is strong enough to send a 2160p signal then get a 4K monitor instead of downsamping. It looks much much better. 

wow go watch a 4K Blue ray on a 1080P screen Versus a 1080P dvd.. 
from what you say they should look the same but they DONT.
Just like 8K skins look better on 1080P monitor or 4K skins look better than 2K skins ingame

If i could afford $2500 for a good 4K screen why am i playing games like some nerd online and not flying my own jet or private plane.

Also you dont need nvidia DSR just make a new Custom resolution of 3840x2560 on any 1080P monitor set it to scale on GPU
then you can run the game at that res on most 1080P screen will run 2 x 1080P (4K)

also you know if you turn on DSR 4K and take a screenshot they are the same as a screenshot from a computer with 4K screen.


 

25 minutes ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Canyou explain where to set up this graphic config? Is from Nvidia panel?

it would be easier to follow the guide or simply in Geforce experience if you have it in there you can set DSR factors if you got them turned on.

ONLY DSX 4.00X works correctly (as all others give distortions as not square pixels or uneven pixel sizes)
https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/dsr/technology

Edited October 23, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[Remontti]

1 hour ago, E69_geramos109 said:

Canyou explain where to set up this graphic config? Is from Nvidia panel?

I would post a screenshot but my nvidia panel is not in English. But in nVidia 3d-settings you should find a section with two tabs: one for general settings and one for program specific settings.

In the general settings tab look for DSR. You can choose multiple options (1.5 x native, 2.0 x native…). After that just run a game and now you can choose higher resolutions what your native resolution is.

 

[SharpeXB]

7 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

wow go watch a 4K Blue ray on a 1080P screen Versus a 1080P dvd.. 
from what you say they should look the same but they DONT.

Ok. 

1. It’s “Blu-ray”. There’s no “e” in Blu

2. There’s no such thing as a 1080p DVD

 

If you play a 4K disc on a 1080p screen it might look a tiny bit better. Many 1080p masters are in 4K (where the format came from) and downsampled to 1080p to smooth out jaggies. 

But real 3840x2160 resolution looks way way way better than 1080p. Not even close. You’ve apparently never seen a game in 4K. 

And 4K monitors aren’t $2,500 either. They’re about 1/10th that price. 

[Drifter28]

This has not changed in a decade. Not one iota. Surely many of the people are the same? It's like time has stood still and watched silently.

 

The simple solution is that you can't imitate human eyesight on a monitor, it needs a visual aid.

 

So develop an icon system that is less obtrusive than a red letter hud. Something like a small grey highlight which gradually fades in and out of view.  Or just fudge it and double the size of the contacts at distance.

 

There's any number of ways to improve it, but it requires some concept and implementation commitment.

 

The final hurdle is probably insurmountable - stopping mp grognards immediately turning it off in the surreal search for realism in fantasy.

 

After which they'd strip it back to gourad shading if they could - just so they can bloody see out the cockpit.

[E69_geramos109]

18 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

 

it would be easier to follow the guide or simply in Geforce experience if you have it in there you can set DSR factors if you got them turned on.

ONLY DSX 4.00X works correctly (as all others give distortions as not square pixels or uneven pixel sizes)
https://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/dsr/technology

I turned on the DSX on 4 x as you told me. There is also something called DSX smoothness that is set up at 33%. How do I need to set this option? 

Do you know how to set up the gamma under 0.8 that is the max the game is allowing you?

 

I saw that to set HDR makes a very similar effect that puting higher gamma so maybe combining HDR with a very low gamma improves something. 

[E69_geramos109]

 

[CountZero]

you can adjust gamma below 0.8 by editing it in startup.cfg, located in data folder in your game, it goes down to 0.5, but it gets reset every time after you change something in graphc settings, so when you get all settings how you wont you can try adjusting that gamma below 0.8 if you need it.

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, Drifter82 said:

The final hurdle is probably insurmountable - stopping mp grognards immediately turning it off in the surreal search for realism in fantasy.

Part of the issue in MP is realism. Most people who play online don’t want artificial enhancements that make the aircraft too easily seen. And real aircraft were actually hard to see in combat. 

But the other part of this is that players just want a level field they can all agree on. There will never be an agreement on what type of icon to use. But everyone can agree on just switching them off. That’s a consistent definition which is why you always see the most populated servers running “full real”

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

12 hours ago, E69_geramos109 said:

I turned on the DSX on 4 x as you told me. There is also something called DSX smoothness that is set up at 33%. How do I need to set this option? 

Do you know how to set up the gamma under 0.8 that is the max the game is allowing you?

 

I saw that to set HDR makes a very similar effect that puting higher gamma so maybe combining HDR with a very low gamma improves something. 

DSR smoothness should not be used with 4.00x DSR it will cause excess blurring.

Its is only meant to be used for all others non 4.00x DSR factors (odd shaped pixels)  and resolutions.

not needed when running 4K dsr on 1K screen  but if running 4K dsr on 2K its needed.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

On 10/24/2018 at 8:04 AM, SharpeXB said:

Part of the issue in MP is realism. Most people who play online don’t want artificial enhancements that make the aircraft too easily seen. And real aircraft were actually hard to see in combat. 

But the other part of this is that players just want a level field they can all agree on. There will never be an agreement on what type of icon to use. But everyone can agree on just switching them off. That’s a consistent definition which is why you always see the most populated servers running “full real”

 

 

The realism thing is a funny beast.  At the end of the day, we're all grown men playing a video game, and the ways we like to play really amount to little more than personal preference.

 

There's the argument to be made that in real life, barring differences in eyesight, all pilots had theoretically equal contact visibility.  Something that can't be replicated in a simulation, with everybody having differing and varying qualities of hardware.  Again though, what people consider to be a level playing field will always differ from person to person.

 

 

[Guest deleted@83466]

39 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

 

 

The realism thing is a funny beast.  At the end of the day, we're all grown men playing a video game, and the ways we like to play really amount to little more than personal preference.

 

 

 

If someone wants little colored cues and artificial symbology and still wants to claim that they are "simulating" one of the biggest tasks of air combat (SA), then they should be flying a 4th Gen Jet with a HUD.   In the current generation of aircraft being simulated, where pilots relied on the Mk. I eyeball and the spatial picture in their head, Icons only have their place in the form of quick action furball and dueling servers with lesser levels of realism, and people are welcome to use those, just as always. 

Edited October 25, 2018 by SeaSerpent

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

You're reying on a version of a HUD, sitting in your lazy chair at home.  Everybody has the same mk1 eyeball, but everybody has a different setup that it's looking at.  Unlike real life.

 

The current implementation of icons is way over the top though, which is why many would like to see customizable icons such as were in the original il-2.

 

All the Walter Mittys out there of course don't have to use them, and will surely be free to have their own servers without them, just as always.

[Guest deleted@83466]

The devs may end up having to do something with the visibility distance of contrails or expanding the 10k bubble so that contacts don't pop in,  but if you mean the chance of "Customizable Icons" coming to be the norm on the servers that are currently Non-Icon, that idea is nonsense.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Nobody is seriously asking for icons on non-icon servers.

[Guest deleted@83466]

3 minutes ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

Nobody is seriously asking for icons on non-icon servers.

 

Glad to hear that, because it sure sounded like you were trying to start the tired argument that having icons is just as realistic as not having icons.

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Nope, my argument is that none of it is realistic, so giving people options doesn't hurt anyone.

 

People can play with like-minded folks as they are doing now.  However the people playing with icons have to play with a hamfisted version of them, and it'd be nice to have some different options.  Even the most visible of icons in 1946 couldn't be seen through solid parts of your cockpit, or clouds, and you didn't get an SA pizza slice at the edge of your screen.  At least as far as I remember.

 

Compare that to what icons are now and it's ridiculous.

Edited October 26, 2018 by hrafnkolbrandr

[Guest deleted@83466]

You always use that false dichotomy:  Because some things are not realistic, then everything is fair game to be dumbed down, and the heck with "flight simulation".  Whatever, but the bottom line though is that you have your Icon servers, and you can play there and do whatever you want;  As long as it doesn't end up dumbing down my game, I'm totally fine with that.

 

[US63_SpadLivesMatter]

Dont worry; Nobody is going to do anything to your *game*.

[Guest deleted@83466]

Again, glad to hear it.

[SharpeXB]

1 hour ago, hrafnkolbrandr said:

The current implementation of icons is way over the top though, which is why many would like to see customizable icons such as were in the original il-2.

It wouldn’t matter if there were customizable icons. So few people use icons at all, even less would be on any one server split up by different options. 

Something has certainly changed in this regard since the old 1946. It seems the only market for flight sims today is the “full switch” type player. Maybe it’s that all the icon player types are on War Thunder.