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SAS_Storebror
Posted

6 PCs update to 1809 so far, none showed any sign of file deletion.

Must be something special going on there on some PCs...

 

Cheers!

Mike

Posted

Already installed, no problem so far.
Seems, problem affects users who have documents and photos stored on the C: system drive - which is not very wise anyhow...

Posted
50 minutes ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

Already installed, no problem so far.
Seems, problem affects users who have documents and photos stored on the C: system drive - which is not very wise anyhow... 

If you have a portable computer with one SSD built in, what do you do then? Plug in an external USB drive and tape that to the cover?

Posted

OK, ok, Zach, don't be angry ;)

SAS_Storebror
Posted
1 hour ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

problem affects users who have documents and photos stored on the C: system drive - which is not very wise anyhow...

Absolutely unrelated and untrue comment.

I have both docs and photos on c drive and elsewhere, no problem with 1809 update  either case.

It's wise to have a working backup strategy.

Storing personal files outside c drive doesn't change anything.

 

:drinks:

Mike 

Posted
42 minutes ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

OK, ok, Zach, don't be angry ;)

I'm not. Not affected here probably due to lazyness. ^^ But you know... tells you about quality control these days. And I would assume MS being on top of the heap there.

Posted
1 hour ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Absolutely unrelated and untrue comment.

I have both docs and photos on c drive and elsewhere, no problem with 1809 update  either case.

It's wise to have a working backup strategy.

Storing personal files outside c drive doesn't change anything.

 

:drinks:

Mike 


You know, I'm an old school with 40+ yrs of IT career :)
We used the C: drive just for system files.
All data on D: E: ... drives.
Agree on working backup strategy though.
OK, let's move on ;) 

Posted
1 minute ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

Agree on working backup strategy though.

For events like even the most basic form of maintenance? Like a house that is basically ok, however it requires you to wear a helmet all the time as "things might come down". Or passenger aircraft, where it is your own bloody fault for not bringing a chute.

Posted

Well, it's good to backup your important data on some external media regularly...
So when your comp dies, which it eventually will, you won't loose everything.

Posted

For sure. Even more important, it makes you aware of where your stuff actually is stored.

 

Just ranting here on the reluctance of manufaturers to vouch for the quality of their products. Also publishers openly don't care for the safety of their clients. As Heise reports, this issue mentioned by the OP has been known over and over. Yet it still made it into a build.

Posted

So far this issue has not affected me, still have all my documents etc. And plenty of backups just in case.

 

Posted

The reports indicate the issue (file deletion) might occur if you have files stored into default folders ("Documents" folder, "Pictures" folder, etc.).

 

You can relocate those folders into another drive (not C:). So the drive might not be a factor (I haven't heard either way about this).

Posted
5 minutes ago, Seb71 said:

The reports indicate the issue (file deletion) might occur if you have files stored into default folders ("Documents" folder, "Pictures" folder, etc.).

 

You can relocate those folders into another drive (not C:). So the drive might not be a factor (I haven't heard either way about this).

 

Yeah it has been many years since I had my documents folder on the default C drive location. I have them on a separate drive.

Posted

Not considering this particular update it is useful to remind some good practices. Here is how I plan my strategy. I have been a professional software/hardware and automation/robotics engineer when I started my career 35 years ago. Data loss was just an unacceptable event. This created habits that then I have always applied long after I changed activity. Some of you will consider my way of doing a little extreme, but I never lost data in my life (hope it will continue be so, cross fingers) . I crashed disks yes, crashed the system to a point where a full reinstall was necessary. Had also motherboard crashes, memory fails you name it. Over time things have become less prone to crashes, but this does not mean that you can be less rigorous.

 

For laptops with one disk it should be wise to have two partitions, C and D. Otherwise two physically separate disks is the right way to go.

I know that many buy their personal laptops (business ones is different as you have no choice it is a company configuration) with installed systems, and various software packages, and use it as is. I personally format it, partition it and install the Win10 Pro from scratch and install the applications, security, anti-virus etc. that I want to have. Sometimes doing this you loose some specific functions that the manufacturer has installed, but you also clean the machine from a lot of garbage that is there without you knowing it. Every manufacturer will try to have you as a captive customer and I hate that. SO I will choose the laptop manufacturer and the model the best adapted to a clean complete re-install.

 

On the home PC (that I have always built myself, for my wife and kids too) the system is always on a separate disk, and is an SSD since a few years. All my stuff is distributed on two other disks. I have one additional HD in the PC that I use as temporary security copy for some stuff that I consider critical and to be momentarily backuped between two complete backups. One disk SSD has all the applications, programs, games, everything except photos and videos. These are kept separate on a very high capacity fast HD. So my home PC has a total of two SSD and 2 HD. Four disks.

Then all the content is regularly backuped on two separate HD as identical copies. Backups are not made in compacted, or in a compressed form. They are made so that you would see no difference and need no software to recover your files. You can just plug the disk and there you are as if it was your original disk. These disks are not physically near the PC. They are stored after a complete full backup in a fire secure safe that is in a completely other place. Some contents of the System disk are also backuped like the Users directory etc. 

We are now at 6 disks. Four in the PC and two in a different place.

All the data of my Smartphone is also backuped locally on my PC so automatically they are also on the two distinct backup disks.

 

Finally every three years I buy two new backup disks and all data is transferred on to them. The cost/capacity that we have now, makes such an approach financially acceptable. I remember years ago were my strategy was a kind of investment, but now is much more affordable.  I never wait that the disk fail. In general the MTBF would make 5 years possible, but with three years its perfect. And even with this I had disks that failed after one year. So things happen.

 

I do not use the cloud as a storage place. I want to have full control on my data and not depend on the internet or various other companies to manage it for me. And as my whole data volume is say "large" the cloud is costly and not practical.

 

Data security comes at a price, but if you value your data then here you are.

 

  • Upvote 1
SAS_Storebror
Posted
20 hours ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

40+ yrs of IT career :)

 

13 hours ago, IckyATLAS said:

professional software/hardware and automation/robotics engineer when I started my career 35 years ago

 

Sounds like a pissing contest, sorry to say:blush:

With just 20 years of IT career on my back (I chose to serve for my country 10 years before that), you might not want to listen to my newbie voice and as a matter of fact, no one says you have to.

 

This is what I use to do:

  1. Don't tinker around with default Operating System Installations if there's no urgent need to.
  2. That said, I don't use multiple partitions on physical drives most of the time anymore. It was a necessity back in the 90s, but nowadays it just doesn't make sense anymore except for the rare case when you need multiple operating systems on one drive.
    Let me add that "install OS from scratch" is no viable choice for most contemporary laptops anyway, as they don't come with installation media but only with a restore partition, and that one will restore the system to the state the manufacturer thinks fits best (whether you like it or not).
  3. Another followup of 1.) is that I don't tinker with the user documents, photos, movies, ... you name it... folders and just keep Microsoft's original structure here.
    Why?
    Because it avoids lots of troubles with - apparently not well designed - applications that expect these folders to be in certain locations.
  4. The whole key to success in my eyes is a working backup strategy.
  5. I have a two-stage backup.
  6. Stage 1 is locally on a Synology NAS drive, currently equipped with a 6TB harddrive.
    That way I can keep a history of 7 generations of all important data on that drive and still have more than 50% of drive space left.
    And to be on the safe side, my Synology NAS has only one of two bays occupied so far, so if I ever run out of disk space, I can add another one.
  7. Stage 2 is the cloud.
    It's not expensive at all.
    For my family, I have an Office 365 Home Subscription, 60-70 bucks per year (depends on the sale I can match).
    That subscription comes with 5 accounts and each of them has 1TB cloud drive space.
    On that cloud drive, separated for each device, the Synology NAS automatically forwards a 4-generation backup on it's own, containing the "local" backup data hosted there.
    So even if my house burns down, my important data is in the cloud.
    Encrypted of course.
    All part of the Synology Cloud Backup Software which comes for free with the NAS.

So far I've survived 2 Disk crashes (System Drive of a Laptop, 4TB external USB drive holding all my IL-2 data of all game versions (1946, CloD, BoX) including Installation files, Mods, Sources, WIPs etc.) and endless OS reinstalls on various systems.

Not saying that it ain't nasty if you have to roll back a backup due to OS update failures, but at least it's not that much of a PITA as losing the data completely.

Essentially, losing a 4TB disk for me meant that I would format a new drive, login to my NAS, order the rollback and wait for the next morning to come.

 

:drinks:

Mike

Posted (edited)

Youngster... 
:drinks:

Edited by ST_ami7b5
SAS_Storebror
Posted

Yes Sir:pioneer:

 

:drink2:

Mike

  • Haha 1
Posted

You know... The WANG just worked fine.

Mitthrawnuruodo
Posted
9 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

Let me add that "install OS from scratch" is no viable choice for most contemporary laptops anyway, as they don't come with installation media but only with a restore partition, and that one will restore the system to the state the manufacturer thinks fits best (whether you like it or not).

 

I'm not sure I understand; isn't it trivial to prepare a Windows 10 installation media on USB with UEFI support? I've done it countless times; I'd never tolerate preinstalled bloatware.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

 

I'm not sure I understand; isn't it trivial to prepare a Windows 10 installation media on USB with UEFI support? I've done it countless times; I'd never tolerate preinstalled bloatware.

If you have installed further software that has fancy (software) dongles you can more often than not just find yourself spend your time on the support hotline to get working again. Reseting game rigs is one thing, if you have further software it can get... bad.

Posted
22 hours ago, SAS_Storebror said:

 

 

Sounds like a pissing contest, sorry to say:blush:

With just 20 years of IT career on my back (I chose to serve for my country 10 years before that), you might not want to listen to my newbie voice and as a matter of fact, no one says you have to.

 

This is what I use to do:

  1. Don't tinker around with default Operating System Installations if there's no urgent need to.
  2. That said, I don't use multiple partitions on physical drives most of the time anymore. It was a necessity back in the 90s, but nowadays it just doesn't make sense anymore except for the rare case when you need multiple operating systems on one drive.
    Let me add that "install OS from scratch" is no viable choice for most contemporary laptops anyway, as they don't come with installation media but only with a restore partition, and that one will restore the system to the state the manufacturer thinks fits best (whether you like it or not).
  3. Another followup of 1.) is that I don't tinker with the user documents, photos, movies, ... you name it... folders and just keep Microsoft's original structure here.
    Why?
    Because it avoids lots of troubles with - apparently not well designed - applications that expect these folders to be in certain locations.
  4. The whole key to success in my eyes is a working backup strategy.
  5. I have a two-stage backup.
  6. Stage 1 is locally on a Synology NAS drive, currently equipped with a 6TB harddrive.
    That way I can keep a history of 7 generations of all important data on that drive and still have more than 50% of drive space left.
    And to be on the safe side, my Synology NAS has only one of two bays occupied so far, so if I ever run out of disk space, I can add another one.
  7. Stage 2 is the cloud.
    It's not expensive at all.
    For my family, I have an Office 365 Home Subscription, 60-70 bucks per year (depends on the sale I can match).
    That subscription comes with 5 accounts and each of them has 1TB cloud drive space.
    On that cloud drive, separated for each device, the Synology NAS automatically forwards a 4-generation backup on it's own, containing the "local" backup data hosted there.
    So even if my house burns down, my important data is in the cloud.
    Encrypted of course.
    All part of the Synology Cloud Backup Software which comes for free with the NAS.

So far I've survived 2 Disk crashes (System Drive of a Laptop, 4TB external USB drive holding all my IL-2 data of all game versions (1946, CloD, BoX) including Installation files, Mods, Sources, WIPs etc.) and endless OS reinstalls on various systems.

Not saying that it ain't nasty if you have to roll back a backup due to OS update failures, but at least it's not that much of a PITA as losing the data completely.

Essentially, losing a 4TB disk for me meant that I would format a new drive, login to my NAS, order the rollback and wait for the next morning to come.

 

:drinks:

Mike

 

 

I know I know I am a little stuck in the past for those things. My approach is not really up to date with the evolution of IT. I have all my house rooms cabled with Gigabyte ethernet network. At home my computers are cabled and not wifi. My business laptop when I use it at home is on a docking station that is cabled. Again this old approach that cables are more secure and faster.  I do use wifi for Iphone, tablets etc. Regarding your comment on cloud I agree. I could use a home cloud with a NAS solution. I did think about it, but never implemented it.

 

SAS_Storebror
Posted

Just in case anyone wants to follow my suggestion to implement a working backup strategy, I should also say that it took me quite a while to find a Backup Software that fulfills all my requirements, which are:

  1. The Backup Software must not be too expensive. Freeware would be preferred,  open source would be perfect.
  2. The Backup Software has to support cross platform operation and it must at least support Windows (both client and server), Linux and Synology DSM operating systems.
  3. The Backup Software has to provide a contemporary file encryption (AES 256 or better).
  4. The Backup Software has to support multiple backup generations.
  5. The Backup Software has to support incremental backups and it should support data deduplication.
  6. The Backup Software has to support scheduled operation.
  7. The Backup Software should support automatic updates.
  8. The Backup Software should have a web interface.

After searching and trying lots of different solutions, I ended up using Duplicati which supports all my requirements, both the mandatory and the optional ones:

https://www.duplicati.com/

 

:drinks:

Mike

SAS_Storebror
Posted (edited)

Microsoft has started rolling out a fixed 1809 update to insiders and is planning to re-release 1809 soon.

Lo and behold, the update issues seem to have been caused by a bug related to the "known folder redirection" feature, which is you redirect folders like desktop, documents or pictures to a different location.

So it's precisely the opposite than what's stated here...

On 10/7/2018 at 9:37 AM, ST_ami7b5 said:

Seems, problem affects users who have documents and photos stored on the C: system drive - which is not very wise anyhow...

...and dare I say that it confirms what I've said before: Don't tinker with defaults if you have no urgent need to.

 

Users who have already installed 1809 are getting a fix (KB4464330) rolled out via Windows Update automatically right now.

 

:drinks:

Mike

Edited by SAS_Storebror
  • Upvote 1
Posted

Yep got the update to 1809 this morning.

Posted

Me too.
Have the docs and photos redirected to E: drive and haven't lost a single bit :)

SAS_Storebror
Posted
41 minutes ago, ST_ami7b5 said:

Have the docs and photos redirected to E: drive and haven't lost a single bit :)

As 99.99% of others who did the same.

The old/buggy 1809 update didn't cause every user who used "known folder redirection" to lose data. "Just" about 0.01% were affected.

But apparently it caused no user who didn't use that feature to lose data. Those who didn't tinker with these Windows default folders were 100% safe from the very beginning.

 

:drinks:

Mike

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