Documentaries about Richthofen's death

[DD_Arthur]

As a regular visitor and contributor to the RoF forums I must say I have not witnessed any of the arguments about the RoF flight model put forward in the way you state above.  RoF, btw, is my go to sim. I think its fantastic but I do recognize that it has weaknesses.

 

Part of the problem is the sheer paucity of reliable, technical specifications from that time. This is especially true of the central powers where much was lost or destroyed after the armistice and even during the allied bombing of Germany during WW2.  No one has said the DVa is "so bad" in comparison to the Spad.  I'm pretty doubtful if it would ever have come up against one of the few Sopworth Triplanes produced anyway.  The Camel however, is a different story and would have been one of the main opponents of the DVa.

 

In RoF the Camel is simply too fast.  It shares the same engine as the Pup and Triplane but mysteriously when fitted in the Camel gives significantly extra power than either of its predecessors.  

 

The devs did introduce a programme of FM reviews starting with the Nieuport N17 and SE5a which were received to general acclaim, so it can be done. 

However, while not ruling out anymore FM reviews for RoF, its obvious the devs are camped out on the Volga for the forseeable future.

 

We can only live in hope.  I will not say anymore on this subject for fear of derailing an interesting thread.  Instead I'll reach for my can of unleaded and speculate that perhaps Richtofen got his hunting instinct from participating in the "horrors" of the massacre of Belgian civilians in 1914 when he was a cavalryman?   

[J2_Trupobaw]

Yes... would he have collaborated with or opposed Göring?

My guess is that he would have tried some politic, then written his memoir, then have a kind of unnofficial function at Berlin, been a hero of a propaganda movie, etc... a bit Like René Fonk did on the French side...

 

Goering? What Goering? Goering made career on being Richthoffen's "successor" in JG1. Richthoffen would cooperate with Hindmeburg - they were both universally idolised war heros from old Prussian officer caste that Germans still believed in; he would make a natural not senile right hand / successor Hindemburg lacked; one able to defeat Hitler in 1932 election like Hindemburg did and not die from old age in two years. With Richthoffen alive, Oberleutnant Goering would be nobody and Gefreiter Hitler would be leader of fringe extremist party. 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2014 by Trupobaw

[Rama]

I went as far as I could in alternate and "what if' history... something which is normally not my cup of tea...

So, I wont follow you....

[FuriousMeow]

As a regular visitor and contributor to the RoF forums I must say I have not witnessed any of the arguments about the RoF flight model put forward in the way you state above.  RoF, btw, is my go to sim. I think its fantastic but I do recognize that it has weaknesses.

 

Part of the problem is the sheer paucity of reliable, technical specifications from that time. This is especially true of the central powers where much was lost or destroyed after the armistice and even during the allied bombing of Germany during WW2.  No one has said the DVa is "so bad" in comparison to the Spad.  I'm pretty doubtful if it would ever have come up against one of the few Sopworth Triplanes produced anyway.  The Camel however, is a different story and would have been one of the main opponents of the DVa.

 

In RoF the Camel is simply too fast.  It shares the same engine as the Pup and Triplane but mysteriously when fitted in the Camel gives significantly extra power than either of its predecessors.  

 

The devs did introduce a programme of FM reviews starting with the Nieuport N17 and SE5a which were received to general acclaim, so it can be done. 

However, while not ruling out anymore FM reviews for RoF, its obvious the devs are camped out on the Volga for the forseeable future.

 

We can only live in hope.  I will not say anymore on this subject for fear of derailing an interesting thread.  Instead I'll reach for my can of unleaded and speculate that perhaps Richtofen got his hunting instinct from participating in the "horrors" of the massacre of Belgian civilians in 1914 when he was a cavalryman?   

 

I have seen the entire song and dance regarding the FMs over at RoF. I've had RoF since day 1 of it's release, when it was just the DVII and SPAD before it was changed to include the DVa and the N28. I understand the Camel is too fast, but again - I'm only speaking about the Albatros DVa and Richthofen's view of it. So while it may not have faced the Tripe, and it was lousy compared to the SPAD this is exactly what Richthofen had to say on it so regardless of your take on it, or anyone on the RoF's forums, this is his view:

 

"Now comes a matter that I want to discuss with you: our aircraft, quite frankly, are ridiculously inferior to British [aircraft]. The [sowith] Triplane, 200HP SPAD, as well as the Sopwith [Camel] single-seater, play with our [Albatros] D.V. In addition to having better-quality aircraft, they have far more [of them]. Our really good fighter pilots are lost in this manner. The D.V. is so far surpassed by and so ridiculously inferior to the British single-seaters that one cannot begin to do anything with [the D.V.]. But the people at home have brought out no new machines for almost a year, [only] these lousy Albatroses, and have remained stuck with the Albatros D.III [types], in which I fought in the autumn of last year."

 

Pretty clear it is "so bad" and not something that could hold it's own on it's own which many somehow believe in the RoF forums - more specifically the ones that only play the Central Powers side.

Edited February 4, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[sturmkraehe]

You do realise that Richtofen treated his war as one big trophy hunt, don't you?  The analogy to hunting animals would have been one he would have understood - and appreciated - precisely.

 

In the end the demands of German propaganda killed him.

 

You don't get the point if I may say so. It simply bugs me that the mentalities as - intentionally or unintentionally - shown in this sort of documentaries are just like that. And we're talking here about mentalities during peace times (almost 70 years of peace now between western european nations). With ALL the knowledge about history and about the madness of war I am simply flabbergasted that some seem still to exhibit this trophy hunting mentality in our days. 

[J2_Trupobaw]

@sturmkraehe, Richthoffen has been shot down twice before, went through 82 victorious dogfights plus unknown number of unresolved, and kept coming back. Unlike most other top aces of their services before (Immelmann, Boelcke, Ball, Gunmayer) he did not die in accident, he was shot. And unlike Hawker, the identity of killer is unknown. It's not thropy-hunting question who killed the man, it's probability-defying question who stopped the legend that seemed unstoppable. 

@Rama - assuming that with Richthoffen alive Goering would be in any position of power is a lot of what-if, too : Goering build his career on Richthoffens death. 

Edited February 4, 2014 by Trupobaw

[Rama]

.../... is a lot of what-if, too

Yes, that's exactly what I said... it was allready too far for my usual taste.

So I stop before going even further

[FuriousMeow]

Oh joy of joys, now the fun has begun!

 

Goering was the least of Germany's problems, their biggest problem was the one in charge of everything.

 

Also, you do know that the majority of Germany wasn't blue eyed or blonde haired?

[unreasonable]

My favourite MvR alternate history is the one in Kim Newman's Anno Dracula series, where JG1 consists of specially engineered vampire shape-shifters and Edgar Allen Poe is drafted in to ghost write "Der Rote Kampfflieger".

Edited February 5, 2014 by unreasonable