AI flies some planes much better?

[Natives-Soul_Finger]

Anybody notice a big discrepancy in how well the AI flies certain planes. When I fly BOS Fw-190A3 careers my AI squadron mates are invariably worthless. They seem to have about a 30% attrition rate per mission and rarely get kills. On the P-39 careers I have flown, the AI P-40 pilots are demons. The all average about one kill a mission and have about a 5% attrition rate. They climb in to combat with 190A5s and 109G4s out numbering them without hesitation and take heads and come home alive even then. Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

Edited September 30, 2018 by VicNighthorse

[Thad]

Naw… you were probably dreaming.  ?

[=621=Samikatz]

If the AI loses the advantage in a fight they just result to turn fighting and don't really know any real evasive moves. If they have the advantage they'll bnz properly but as soon as they can't do that they don't know how to disengage or try to lose you, so anything that turns badly will have a really high loss rate

[Bilbo_Baggins]

The AI bots seem to fly most poorly in FW190 and La5 machines as they do not try to use utilize speed. The best AI piloted machine seems to be the Spitfire, I would say. 

 

I've noticed AI bots on lower skill settings only turn to the deck, no matter which machine. On Ace skill setting the differences become apparent, and you see certain planes like Mig-3 and BF109 trying to gain height and run for distance. 

 

RGDS

Edited September 30, 2018 by Bilbo_Baggins

[Natives-Soul_Finger]

49 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

If the AI loses the advantage in a fight they just result to turn fighting and don't really know any real evasive moves. If they have the advantage they'll bnz properly but as soon as they can't do that they don't know how to disengage or try to lose you, so anything that turns badly will have a really high loss rate

Is the P-40 a turner though? They are still kicking ass on everything in my career missions.

[-LUCKY-ThanksSkeletor]

The AI turn fight in the German aircraft way to much, in my Bf109 career our attrition rate is crazy high. In my VVS career's it has been much easier to get kills and survive since the friendly ai still turn fight a lot but its to their advantage.

[blitze]

6 hours ago, =621=Samikatz said:

If the AI loses the advantage in a fight they just result to turn fighting and don't really know any real evasive moves. If they have the advantage they'll bnz properly but as soon as they can't do that they don't know how to disengage or try to lose you, so anything that turns badly will have a really high loss rate

 

Nah, I had to chase down a 109 G4 in my Yak 1b back to base as when I engaged him over the combat zone he got some light damage and decided to run for base after trying to drag me initially through German front line AA.  On his run he was doing slight course changes to try and discourage any long distance sniping and it was only over his sleepy base that I was able to get some more shots on him and force him to crash.

 

What this did though was drag me away from my mission in which 2 109 flights had intercepted our il2's and for some reason my flight didn't do much to prevent them.  I flew throttle to the wall back to the combat area and then back to the Il2's base to find 4 109's tormenting the Il2's whilst they were trying to land and my flight had pissed off.AA took out 2 of them, I took out 1 and the other ran away but 3 Il2's crashed round that area.

 

I feel AI is improving though and 109's do use energy fighting more effectively.  They will also try to drag you into a slow turn fight which benefits them too.  Some high yo-yo's help counter that. ))

 

The other thing was near the German airfield which I had chased down 1 109, there was a flight of 109's heading off on a mission and they didn't bother with me.  I kept my distance but was concerned they might divert to harass me but no, they flew on.

[Yogiflight]

6 hours ago, blitze said:

Nah, I had to chase down a 109 G4 in my Yak 1b back to base as when I engaged him over the combat zone he got some light damage and decided to run for base after trying to drag me initially through German front line AA.  On his run he was doing slight course changes to try and discourage any long distance sniping and it was only over his sleepy base that I was able to get some more shots on him and force him to crash.

That is funny. It is exactly the behaviour everybody complains about, when AI does it, chase the player back to his base. Everybody says, this is wrong, nobody would do this.

[blitze]

23 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

That is funny. It is exactly the behaviour everybody complains about, when AI does it, chase the player back to his base. Everybody says, this is wrong, nobody would do this.

 

I learned from the AI ))

 

But also that it was not a wise thing to do as we lost many il2's back at base with the 109's that chased them there.  At least AA was trying to cover them. )

[Luftschiff]

The AI knows one thing: Slow speed turnfight on the deck. How well they do in certain aircraft is directly related to how good that aircraft is at this tactic. Thus, 109 careers result in a 90% casualty rate every single mission, but they'll do surprisingly well in an I-16 or Yak. I'm pretty sure the AI would do better in a Fokker Dr.1 than a Focke-Wulf.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 minutes ago, Luftschiff said:

The AI knows one thing: Slow speed turnfight on the deck. How well they do in certain aircraft is directly related to how good that aircraft is at this tactic. Thus, 109 careers result in a 90% casualty rate every single mission, but they'll do surprisingly well in an I-16 or Yak. I'm pretty sure the AI would do better in a Fokker Dr.1 than a Focke-Wulf.

 

Been that way since RoF, and as far as I can remember all the way back to the 1990s.  It's just so much easier to tell AI to turn tighter than it is to code in an understanding of energy tactics.  Hell, many humans aren't any better :). 

 

I will give the AI this, I have seen many fights where it does use speed and climb and does not just turn.  Somebody else mentioned it elsewhere: one of the keys to energy fighting is to know when to quit.  The AI always comes back for more, meaning that it eventually gets low and slow.  If it could be coded to simply break off and fly away that would go a long way to solving the problem.

 

[Yogiflight]

They are not even good in turning. I killed more than one I16 with 109s and even 190s through turning circles. They just don't use the strength of the aircrafts, as they are obviously programmed to fight a certain way no matter which aircraft. So when they fly an aircraft, that can fly tighter circles, they don't use this strength.

[PatrickAWlson]

5 minutes ago, Yogiflight said:

They are not even good in turning. I killed more than one I16 with 109s and even 190s through turning circles. They just don't use the strength of the aircrafts, as they are obviously programmed to fight a certain way no matter which aircraft. So when they fly an aircraft, that can fly tighter circles, they don't use this strength.

 

When people critique AI flying "well",  they must know that they are flying against Ace AI.  In PWCG I use Novice all the time and I would not expect Novice AI to do much of anything well.  

 

So: to expand on your critique: if the AI was Ace, and if you were also turning circles and not using your plane properly, then the criticism is valid.  If the AI was Novice then that may be the reason it was not flying its plane to its capabilities.  If you were using energy tactics on a slow plane that happens to turn well then that would also explain why you were able to win the fight, regardless of AI level.

 

[dburne]

23 hours ago, Yogiflight said:

They are not even good in turning. I killed more than one I16 with 109s and even 190s through turning circles. They just don't use the strength of the aircrafts, as they are obviously programmed to fight a certain way no matter which aircraft. So when they fly an aircraft, that can fly tighter circles, they don't use this strength.

 

Yep, once I can get them in a turn fight with me flying the Spit, I can get them about every time. When they fly to their aircraft's strengths though, it can be difficult.