G14 vs MK9

[StickMan]

Is there any way to neutralize a starting disadvantage other than trying to outrun it in a 109g14? Rope a dope didn't seem to work. I'm not sure but can it outclimb the g14 in certain situations?

[Ehret]

30 minutes ago, StickMan said:

Is there any way to neutralize a starting disadvantage other than trying to outrun it in a 109g14? Rope a dope didn't seem to work. I'm not sure but can it outclimb the g14 in certain situations?

 

The G14 can out-climb the IX but at low altitude, only.

 

A shallow dive will be your best bet to equalize energy.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Ehret

[StickMan]

1 hour ago, Ehret said:

 

The G14 can out-climb the IX but at low altitude, only.

By low altitude, do you mean 0 to 2000m?

[Ehret]

8 minutes ago, StickMan said:

By low altitude, do you mean 0 to 2000m?

 

Yes - something like that, probably.

 

I would like to know the exact figure myself but from I have seen the IX climbs better when higher. The race to altitude will not work against the IX, basically.

[ZachariasX]

2 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

Yes - something like that, probably.

 

I would like to know the exact figure myself but from I have seen the IX climbs better when higher. The race to altitude will not work against the IX, basically.

The better climb of the G14 is very marginal and for practical purposes will not save you. You auickly reach altitudes (and your quarry as well) where the Spits gets more than competitive. The IX at max rev. and throttle will always be able to follow. You can practise that on Berloga pretty well, good 109 riders will be keen on doing high yoyos on you, but engaging a slow Spit at high speeds.

 

This trick requires significant higher energy when opening the fight. Then you may distance yourself in the vertical after the first pass. NEVER turn with the Spit, unless the Spit it flown such that you may have good reason assuming you‘ll have the edge on him anyway, be it by damage or just bad piloting.

 

If you are caught by a Spit, especially by the IX, in my experience you can try rolling scissors while slowing down. In the 109 you have the edge in pulling high AoA and get your bearings on him. The Spit doesn‘t like to be flown such. In the Spit I never follow the 109 in such a maneuver, I just try a snapshot begore passing him at higher speeds and then make something out of my higher energy.

[Cpt_Siddy]

Remember, zoom climbing from a spit with gyro sight and person who know how to use it is bad baaaad idea. 

[Barnacles]

Your main advantage is the quick acceleration of the G14, esp. in a shallow dive. Clearly in a fight, you have to turn at some point, but if you get the balance between turning often enough at a distance far enough away that he cant tuck in close behind you, and being aggressive enough that he can't use his climb rate to gain an advantage, you can dictate the fight. I achieve this by merging, then shallow dive extend to around 2km distance then do a 180 at around 500kmh.

[Talon_]

I actually made a breakdown video on this exact topic, fighting a G-14 with a lot more energy than me:

 

 

[StickMan]

Thanks for all the replies, everyone. Very helpful!

 

9 hours ago, Ehret said:

 

Yes - something like that, probably.

 

I would like to know the exact figure myself but from I have seen the IX climbs better when higher. The race to altitude will not work against the IX, basically.

Yeah I found that out the hard way. I started a rope a dope against a MKIX. Initially everything went well with me starting to build an advantage above him and keeping him from leading me with his guns. Then as I got higher it was like he found energy out of nowhere as he started to close the distance on me and my plane started to buffet. Well it didn't end well. I found out I was the dope that got roped.

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by StickMan

[=621=Samikatz]

As well as any plane climbs you almost certainly can never outclimb a bullet

[Talon_]

1 hour ago, StickMan said:

. Then as I got higher it was like he found energy out of nowhere

 

14,000ft the Spitfire's F.S. Supercharger gear kicks in and it gets the full 1700hp again. It's a huge kick in the backside and you really feel it even at climbing boost (+12lbs)!

Edited September 23, 2018 by Talon_

[JtD]

At 18lb the second gear produces ~1500hp.

 

A reason for the the poor climbing performance of the G-14 might be the improperly working MW50 injection. But even with a properly working system you'd not have a significant advantage up to about 17000ft, and be at a disadvantage above that altitude.

[Talon_]

1 hour ago, JtD said:

At 18lb the second gear produces ~1500hp.

 

 

It's 1700hp at the crank but the supercharger losses cause the 200hp drop.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

I find the g14 is faster and climbs better until about 5k, at which point the spit starts to get better.

[-SF-Disarray]

That video of Talon's points out, in my experience, the best way forward in this kind of fight. It boils down to plane judo - let the 109 do what it does best and then flip the script on them and punish when they can't cope with the rapid change of situation. The 109 can be either very fast or very maneuverable, but it can't do both at the same time. The Spitfire on the other hand can't go quite as fast as the 109 but it maintains a respectable degree of maneuverability even when approaching top speed (this holds mostly true for Yaks as well). Let them wind up the speed, dance around them and put a 20 mm in the most unfortunate location you can reach. Sure the 109 will be fast but you just can't outrun a bullet.

 

The other way to win the fight is cheat and bring a wing-man in on it. Give them the old 'Hay look at me and only me. No, just ignore that other guy sneaking up on you. He's nobody.' act and watch them fall apart. This, of course, works in any plane supposing you can survive long enough for your wing-man to ram the shots home; most of mine still need a little work in that department.

[Blackhawk_FR]

18 hours ago, StickMan said:

Is there any way to neutralize a starting disadvantage other than trying to outrun it in a 109g14? Rope a dope didn't seem to work. I'm not sure but can it outclimb the g14 in certain situations?

 

With same pilot level, I'm sorry to say no... 

In that case I would try to make him overshoot with hard turns (scissors, barrel rolls, using trim and flaps), then try to find the right moment to run with the MW50. Then exhaust him in a soft climb.

 

In the old IL2 you could really handle the Mk9 especially at low speed. In that game, Spitfire is a disgusting unchallenging plane for babies. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by F/JG300_Faucon

[-SF-Disarray]

If you are going to go to all the trouble of forcing the overshoot you might as well kill him. The power to weight ratio found in the 109 line generally, and the G14 specifically with that MW50 devilry, there is no reason you cannot accelerate, turn back in on the enemy after they overshoot and spread some ammo across them; unless you've completely botched the maneuvers that forced the overshoot. You might be able to run away but then you will be right back where you started, with an enemy on your six. A dead enemy is a safe enemy though.