2080 and 2080 Ti

[chiliwili69]

Just now, dburne said:

SS 1.3 to 1.5

SteamVR SS or PD of OTT?

[dburne]

Just now, chiliwili69 said:

SteamVR SS or PD of OTT?

 

OTT.

[ironk79]

On 10/27/2018 at 6:11 PM, dburne said:

 

Well here's the thing. I think sometimes we get too fixated on fps numbers rather than the overall experience for VR.

There is not system today, not even close, that will give a full 90 fps in what we do at all times.

 

Allthough my system can give 90fps with reasonable settings 99% of the time, we hav to accept the fact that fps dips  still occur, even without a visible reason.

CPU and GPU are well under the performance limit, still you get heavy dips at times (down into 50-60fps).

Had such a moment yesterday, just quickmission 1vs1, enemy plane gosing down with me  watching, explosion and fps dips for 2-3s. No other AI present, the rendering of the explosion def. not overwhelming my 1080ti or 8086k, so why the dip??? other times times heavy action, close 4vs4 dogfighting, planes desintegrating and exploding, no heavy dips.

One thing i noticed, most of the time when these dips occur, something is loaded in the background. When you zoom 1st time, or when you just entered the mission and the airfield or landscape loads around you.

Despite having quite good HW, i cant get a hold of this problem. I wish it was possible to somehow force a preload of everything that could matter.

 

[dburne]

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra

Review by JayzTwoCents.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by dburne

[Wulfen]

On 11/2/2018 at 4:47 PM, dburne said:

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra

Review by JayzTwoCents.

 

 

The RTX are serious overclockers. My zotac 2080 amp will hold a 1200mhz OC on the memory, while hovering from 2100 to 2040 on the core. All on default power and voltage settings. Temps at 60c and below with a quiet 60% fan speed setting on hitting the 60c. With the 1080ti at around the same price or slightly cheaper than the 2080, together with it`s future proof tech,  it`s a no brainer to opt for the RTX over GTX.

On 10/18/2018 at 2:43 PM, II./JG77_motoadve said:

I have a 1080 Ti, IL2 is my main sim, and runs pretty good, smooth and at ultra settings in VR(no mirrors though).

i 7 8700 k overclocked at 5.0

 

Will a 2080Ti make a noticeable difference? maybe just a bit?

 

What about when I buy a Pimax 5K +? Will take more advantage  of the 2080 Ti than the 1080Ti.

Here is my reasoning, I can sell my 1080 Ti for more now than in 2 years.

The 2080Ti might not be replaced in 2 years, but will their prices stay where they are or go down?

I have the 2080 and it`s a serious card, but I was upgrading from a 1070 which I sold for a very decent price, and with a new 2070 on the horizon I felt it was timely to cash in before my resale value dropped further. In your position I`d stick with the 1080ti until we see how much VRS, DLSS and other RTX VR solutions come on stream.  Unless of course you get a serious resale price on your 1080ti to offset the new purchase then it may help, but the 2080ti is very pricey. Then again if the mining craze kicks off again in the new year then all bets are off on the price front.

Edited November 4, 2018 by Wulfen

[kevman]

On 11/2/2018 at 4:47 PM, dburne said:

EVGA RTX 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra

Review by JayzTwoCents

 

watched most of this a few days ago - I did not know that the FTW cards has two bios. I am currently on my third and have never used it!!!

[dburne]

41 minutes ago, kevman said:

 

watched most of this a few days ago - I did not know that the FTW cards has two bios. I am currently on my third and have never used it!!!

 

Yeah second bios just has default more aggressive setting -  power target and fans.

One can easily do that with Precision X1, which is what I do.

 

If I did not use Precision I am sure I would have it on the second bios.

Edited November 5, 2018 by dburne

[SCG_motoadve]

Got my 2080 Ti

 

Everything turned butter smooth, I already was playing on ultra (high shadows and no mirrors)  with my 1080 Ti, and honestly was pretty smooth, now is glass smooth.

If you play mostly multiplayer, you see an improvement but not huge. 

 

If you play single player will see a big improvement.

Playing Stalingrad career and plenty of smoke and action down low and big air dogfights and all running smooth as glass.

 

Framerates I dont care, never look at them.

Edited November 7, 2018 by II./JG77_motoadve
Pics

[dburne]

29 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

Got my 2080 Ti

 

Everything turned butter smooth, I already was playing on ultra (high shadows and no mirrors)  with my 1080 Ti, and honestly was pretty smooth, now is glass smooth.

If you play mostly multiplayer, you see an improvement but not huge. 

 

If you play single player will see a big improvement.

Playing Stalingrad career and plenty of smoke and action down low and big air dogfights and all running smooth as glass.

 

Framerates I dont care, never look at them.

 

 

 

 

Congrats!

If you want to free up some ports and even the HDMI port, get an adapter and run that Rift through the Virtual Link on the card.

I have been running mine that way for about a week now, works beautifully.

 

 

[JonRedcorn]

Does anyone that buys these cards have actual numbers to go with them? Everyone just says they run this game maxed out and it's super smooth, yet I am sitting here wondering how anyone is doing that. There's absolutely no way that people are running this game on ultra haha in VR with 90 fps. Smooth in VR is 80-90 fps, anything less than that is not "smooth as glass". I've seen multiple people recently attest to either a headset or a graphics card as being able to run Il2 maxed out and it's smooth. People are either blind or they don't want to admit their 1400 dollar graphics card can't push 90fps in an actual benchmark, it's borderline infuriating trying to get an idea of the actual performance of these things. You spend almost 2k on a graphics card and don't care what your frame rate is? I don't understand it.

 

I mean the guy said he was already playing at ultra with a 1080ti and thought it was smooth... I have the same setup. It's not smooth and it's certainly not playable on ultra settings. If you want to have ASW on all the time and have the prop glitching the heck out of the gun sight then sure it's smooth as butter. Butter that's been in a freezer for 6 months. I am struggling to get decent frames in multiplayer with balanced settings, high shadows, and the rest all turned down. It's just not possible. Until this game actually starts utilizing the hardware like 90% of other games we are going to be stuck spending money on GPU's that are being underutilized.  The problem here is we don't have fast enough cpu's. The gpu's are not the issue. If we had a dual core intel cpu that clocked at 8ghz we'd be breezing this game like it was a joke.

 

Not to mention that until either they reprogram this game or we get much faster cpu's in the future then nothing is going to change, you can keep throwing money at the problem but it's not going to fix anything, hell I spent 700 bucks for a 1080ti and saw marginally better frame rates than my 1070 was putting out and was completely disappointed in it, won't be making the same mistake with the 2080ti.

Edited November 10, 2018 by 15th_JonRedcorn

[SCG_motoadve]

 

 

$1,400 , then you say almost $2,000 , where do you get those prices?

I paid $1,199.

 

Complain to the developers, not about people who are having fun, that does not help anyone.

 

When I dont like the hardware I buy, I just return it and get my money back.

That is what I did with the Vive pro, and made a thread about it, telling my experience.

 

 

[bzc3lk]

33 minutes ago, II./JG77_motoadve said:

 

 

$1,400 , then you say almost $2,000 , where do you get those prices?

I paid $1,199

 

 

 

Maybe he looked on an Aussie website

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2018 by bzc3lk

[Alonzo]

12 hours ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

Not to mention that until either they reprogram this game or we get much faster cpu's in the future then nothing is going to change, you can keep throwing money at the problem but it's not going to fix anything, hell I spent 700 bucks for a 1080ti and saw marginally better frame rates than my 1070 was putting out and was completely disappointed in it, won't be making the same mistake with the 2080ti.

 

I don't think anyone credible on here (Fenris, dburne, hopefully me) would advise upgrading higher than a 1080ti. Heck I've even suggested a 1080 is about the sweet spot for VR in IL2, because it's so CPU limited. The big problem with benchmarking is that the numbers vary so wildly. I upgraded from my 1070 to a 2080 and posted my results in the benchmarking thread, but lots of people complain about the benchmark: it's low flying on Kuban, which is about the worst map for VR. If there's a different benchmark track to run against, we'll get different numbers.

 

So for me, here's where I ended up: I run High preset, Medium shadows, 100km draw distance, 4x landscape detail, sharp landscape filter, 4x AA and 1.2 OTT pixel density. I'm on an 8086k @ 5.0ghz, and an EVGA RTX 2080 XC Ultra with a mild overclock. With those settings the GPU barely breaks a sweat, sitting at about 65% usage max. Above a thousand meters I'm getting a solid 90 FPS, but down low it regularly chugs along slower. I've enabled auto ASW because I find the lack of it jarring at low altitudes. I've also upgraded to the latest Migoto mod from Lefuneste which has some good performance improvements in it.

 

Unfortunately, IL2 still won't give me 90 FPS in all situations. I've basically come to accept that. I still have my fingers crossed for a future performance optimization pass that will help me hit that 11ms CPU frame time, at which point my GPU will happily pump out 90 FPS. But until the IL2 code is further optimized, there's no point going above a 1080ti, and every user will need to tolerate some sort of compromise. Lowering to Balanced will help, turning off ASW if you prefer might help, locking ASW on might be better for some people.... lots of options but there's not going to be a 100% 90 FPS on *anyone's* rig unless they are running like a 7ghz chip.

[marklar]

On 11/10/2018 at 3:51 AM, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

I mean the guy said he was already playing at ultra with a 1080ti and thought it was smooth.

 

He is like console players who are happy with 30fps. Why would they need 60fps if 30 is smooth as butter? :). I am glad I read the whole motoadve's post because I started believing that 2080ti can do wonders in VR. The sentence "Framerates I dont care, never look at them" has woken me up.

 

On 11/10/2018 at 5:50 AM, II./JG77_motoadve said:

not about people who are having fun

 

 

[dburne]

10 minutes ago, marklar said:

 

He is like console players who are happy with 30fps. Why would they need 60fps if 30 is smooth as butter? :). I am glad I read the whole motoadve's post because I started believing that 2080ti can do wonders in VR. The sentence "Framerates I dont care, never look at them" has woken me up.

 

 

In VR, go for a smooth experience and turn that darn FPS counter OFF!

Smooth is the key, I think many get hung up on FPS. 

[SCG_motoadve]

4 hours ago, dburne said:

 

In VR, go for a smooth experience and turn that darn FPS counter OFF!

Smooth is the key, I think many get hung up on FPS. 

You got it dburne people get obsessed with FPS.

If you focus on FPS , you will never be able to enjoy the game in VR that way.

You do not you need a counter to tell you when should you be able to enjoy the sim.

 

Tweak it and find a smooth gameplay, forget that damn FPS counter, get a feeling for it, and stop whining.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by II./JG77_motoadve
Text

[marklar]

7 hours ago, dburne said:

 

In VR, go for a smooth experience and turn that darn FPS counter OFF!

Smooth is the key, I think many get hung up on FPS. 

 

I have it off but I do know that if the game ever starts stuttering it's because FPS dropped below 90. Maybe 45 fps is smooth for you and others but not for me. That's why I need to know how many FPS 2080ti is able to render before I spend $1200 on it. Claims that the game runs smooth mean nothing.

[A_radek]

Guys your arguing over something so subjective anyone entering this discussion will have a new point of view. Here’s mine :p

 

A taxi and take off at 90fps is imho not comparable to one at 45. There is a reason these hmd’s are supposed to run at 90. However, a 45fps take off is still “smooth” and a fully playable experience. Some will choose 45 and high settings, others strive for 90 at the cost of eye candy. 

 

The reason for the fps obsession is because it’s the only non-subjective way of measuring current performance between each other. Thanks to studying and even recording that FPS counter we know and have for some time known a 1070 won’t hold you back from reaching 90fps in il2 with a rift unless you supersample. We also know how many FPS a 100mhz cpu clock increase will yield or how much a 100mhz memory and even an uncore increase will give. Actually we know quite a lot thanks to chili’s benchmarking, excel sheets and many others members tests. So much so that we can help or pinpoint the bottleneck for someone having performance issues. 

 

It’s fine to disregard this information for whatever reason and be happy with what you have. It’s bad manners to dismiss all that work as some unnecessary FPS obsession.

 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

 

It’s fine to disregard this information for whatever reason and be happy with what you have. It’s bad manners to dismiss all that work as some unnecessary FPS obsession.

 

 

To be clear, I was talking about in game experiences - not benchmarking.

I was not urging folks that are into that to disregard the information or the benchmarking.

Just saying during actually gameplay focus on getting a smooth and pleasurable experience. Once there turn the fps counter off and have fun.

At least that is what I do and I spend many hours a week in this. And having an absolute blast.

Edited November 13, 2018 by dburne

[marklar]

It's impossible to get a smooth experience with stuttering and this happens when FPS drop below 90. No one is worshipping benchmarks here. We just trying to find out if 2080ti is a solution for VR problems. Apparently it's not.

 

I can have a smooth experience even on my 980ti but only under certain circumstances. Problem is flying on my own over an empty map is not why I bought BoX.

[dburne]

1 hour ago, marklar said:

It's impossible to get a smooth experience with stuttering and this happens when FPS drop below 90. No one is worshipping benchmarks here. We just trying to find out if 2080ti is a solution for VR problems. Apparently it's not.

 

I can have a smooth experience even on my 980ti but only under certain circumstances. Problem is flying on my own over an empty map is not why I bought BoX.

 

If you can only get smooth gameplay at 90 fps in VR, then no the 2080 Ti will not solve that for you.

[marklar]

Glad we finally understand each other. 

[A_radek]

3 hours ago, dburne said:

 

To be clear, I was talking about in game experiences - not benchmarking.

I was not urging folks that are into that to disregard the information or the benchmarking.

Just saying during actually gameplay focus on getting a smooth and pleasurable experience. Once there turn the fps counter off and have fun.

At least that is what I do and I spend many hours a week in this. And having an absolute blast.

I misunderstanding on my part then. And I agree.

[dburne]

39 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

I misunderstanding on my part then. And I agree.

 

No worries.

[chiliwili69]

I also switch off the in-game fps counter, it is a bit distracting. I also have ASW off and I can notice when fps are just below 90 fps since the trails of moving objects are showing a micro-stuttering. But does this prevent me from enjoy the game? NOO!!!

 

IMHO, the VR experience in IL2 is simply amazing in "general terms". 

 

But it is human nature to try to understand how we can get better performance and better visuals with every new headset and every new hardware. After all we spend a fair amount of time with this hobby, so we try to know what it helps and what it doesn´t. In an objective, measurable and reproducible way. Just build a bit of science over opinions and subjetivities.

 

It will be constructive for the community that the people who buy new hardware run the benchmark for two reasons:

- Verify that the performance is aligned with your peers

- Measure the improvements of the new hardware

 

But at the end of the day the important thing is the subjective experience. More than 30 years ago I was also quite happy playing "Fighter Pilot" in my ZX Spectrum, I was truly believing that I was piloting a plane!.

In 30 years time, when we will have VR microchips inserted in our necks we will look back and say: "How we could enjoy those VR games with that 2080Ti cards?"

We all are very fortunate to be witnesses of the born of the VR age.

 

 

 

[JonRedcorn]

I just don't want newbies to come here and think they will get a full on smooth 90 fps experience with their expensive setups and then leave disappointed and never touch the game again.

[SCG_motoadve]

Ok so tried the FPS, quick mission Kuban , heavy clouds 16 fighters.

FPS in the 60s, sometimes 70s only 90 when over the clouds and looking up.

So as suspected not 90 fps.

 

How did it felt? totally playable, super smooth, not a single sttuter or hicup ( I have been flying sims for more than 20 years so not new to fps, sttuters and all that nightmare).

 

A bit of ghosting which its something I had before too.

 

And this is why I dont care for fps, just how it feels.

[marklar]

Great, but your subjective feelings is not what we are asking for. I am not going to buy 2080ti because motoadve feels it's good. When I fly and FPS drop from 90 to 85 I feel it and see it without FPS counter.

You probably don't see a difference between a video recorded in 30 and 60fps. I totally understand this, my wife is the same. I see that difference and even prefer to watch 720p@60 than 1080p@30. 

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

Basically, what friend marklar is asking for, are RTX2080(ti) benchmarks in IL-2. 

 

?

[marklar]

Don't we all ask for the same? Ok. some are happy with just personal feelings. 

[A_radek]

3 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Basically, what friend marklar is asking for, are RTX2080(ti) benchmarks in IL-2. 

 

?

I'm receiving four of them at work, hopefully monday, and can borrow one for a benchmark test. Though my guess here is that it will mostly smooth out the lows compared to my own 1070 and of course allow for much more supersampling.

[C6_lefuneste]

39 minutes ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

I'm receiving four of them at work, hopefully monday, and can borrow one for a benchmark test. Though my guess here is that it will mostly smooth out the lows compared to my own 1070 and of course allow for much more supersampling.

It should be great to have a bench 1070 vs 1080ti for the same Rig and settings, so we can have a clear view of the impact of GPU for BoS.

And if you can use the bench here it will be perfect...

[marklar]

4 hours ago, SvAF/F16_radek said:

and of course allow for much more supersampling.

 

I'd be happy with SS 1.0 and medium settings if this can give me stable 90fps :).

[Alonzo]

9 hours ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

Basically, what friend marklar is asking for, are RTX2080(ti) benchmarks in IL-2. 

 

?

 

Here's an RTX 2080 (non-ti) benchmark in IL2 that I posted in the other thread: 

 

1 hour ago, marklar said:

 

I'd be happy with SS 1.0 and medium settings if this can give me stable 90fps :).

 

...and as evidenced in the benchmarking thread, no such setup exists currently, and is CPU bound, not GPU bound. So if you want to grab a 9700K and overclock the snot out of it, pairing it with fast RAM and a GTX 1080, 1080ti or RTX 2070 and you will get as close to 90 FPS as the game is capable of.

[JonRedcorn]

You can always turn the in game settings down to low to achieve an almost steady 90fps but the game then looks absolutely abysmal at those settings.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

All our discontent stems from the game's lack of scalability, lack of threading out its calculations. 

 

The question for Jason is how to justify the hours put into the code by the programmer, when the dude is needed to implement so many other things. You could say that with BoBP and TC especially, we'd expect such advances, to eventually help everyone's performance -  of the low-end customers as well! How many reviews and YT comments I've read "I'd play this but the game runs like shit on my x486-like PC"...! 

 

Maybe a Kickstarter to check the waters? I'd happily put one or two hundred European bucks to that, at least. Would have to be official though. 

 

P.S. If I had bought the game with everything twice, it wouldn't send a signal to the devs on what I want or why, so that route is out of question.  

11 hours ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

You can always turn the in game settings down to low to achieve an almost steady 90fps but the game then looks absolutely abysmal at those settings.

Don't do it mate... As you pointed out you'll scratch out your own eyes haha. Especially the clouds, they get ripped up beyond recognition. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

[=RS=Stix_09]

Shame IL-2 GB is the only game with VR performance issues.....

[marklar]

Obviously it's not, buy because other games are sh.t in VR does not mean BoX has to be the same.

[ironk79]

The level of AI and scale of physics are the main problem. this combined with the heavy dependence on single thread performance are THE main cause for performance issues.
when a simple carreer mission with a handfull of bombers flying halfs my fps at otherwise very conservative settings, that is a problem. considering BoBP and its scale, i am very conserned about a playable scenario. The scale of these battles are illusoric with the technical state of current BOS.

a step back into 1946 days, regarding AI and physics, could be an option i could live with.

[A_radek]

1 hour ago, ironk79 said:

when a simple carreer mission with a handfull of bombers flying halfs my fps at otherwise very conservative settings, that is a problem. considering BoBP and its scale, i am very conserned about a playable scenario.

This is also the reason I haven't lost hope they will eventually have to find some way to split that main thread. Another reason is they intend to use this engine for several new titles each needing additional features. The engine is in some aspects very impressive, has taken years to reach it's current level and I believe no off the shelf alternative could handle maps this size and complexity. But every new feature such as mountain terrains, improved shadows, mirrors, new particles and so on has increased load on that single thread and if it continues this way it's just a matter of time before the monitor crowd are in the same boat as us. 

Latest dd mentioned netcode optimizations and this at least hints at Jason & co having intentions of optimizing rather than only go for needed sales by adding planes and features. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by SvAF/F16_radek