About to get myself a new monster rig for Solitaire, Minesweeper and... flightsimming

[Freycinet]

Hi all,

 

My present set-up is getting a bit long in the tooth, so I am about to throw around 3000$/€ at a new one. I won't be building it myself but will probably have it assembled by the company that made my last gaming rig, https://www.alternate.be/ in Belgium. They're pretty good with advice and prices, I think.

 

I am waiting for the next gen of VR glasses so I'd definitely want a rig that can handle DCS/Il-2/CoD in hi-res VR: butter smooth and with all the bells and whistles, since I am in the situation that I can afford it (and that university fund for the kids was just gathering dust anyway... ;-)

 

Any advice on what specs I should aim for? Which hardware? My last gaming computer was bought in 2009 so I am a bit out of the loop...

 

If any of you recently bought a rig that you dig pls post specs!

 

Cheers,
Freycinet

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

First of all why not assemble your self? No rocket science and you save in costs. If looking for performance comparisons and reviews, then take a look at Guru3D, for example. Hilbert does not favor any brand. 

 

I personally always get a good motherboard for the CPU. My preferred brand is Asus. My current mobo is a placeholder. Better mobo offer better tweaking possibilities and have better components. 

 

Memory. DDR4 is the norm these days. I prefer lower latency(CAS) over MHz. Best value for money is propably at 3200Mhz. There are numerous articles around where you can see what the speed increase gives compared to invested money. 

 

GPU. Can invest as much as you want/can really. The new nVidia cards will be interesting, when reviews finally come out and real performance figures are seen. But if having one right now the nVidia GTX 1080Ti is the one to get from high end. Again I would look at Asus, Zotac etc. 

 

As hard drives there is no question. SSD is the way to go. Fast, low power consumption and silent. Best case is to have a good mobo with 2 slots on board for SSD. One for OS and one for applications/games. That way I have it and not regretting it. Again Guru3D has good reviews on this

 

PSU is a matter of choice. There are pretty good power calculators where you slap in what you have in your rig and it shows the consumption. Add a couple of hundred watts to that and go for a Gold or platinum grade PSU. Of course a modular one for neat cable management. Corsair makes good ones, for example. 

 

The case is again a personal matter of taste, but I prefer a well ventilated one with dust filters. Also has places for liquid cooling equipment. 

 

CPU. Depends which brand you prefer. But speed should be around 4GHz or more, 4 or more cores. Accompany with a good Air cooler like Noctua or slap on a liquid cooling system. 

 

Monitor. GSync or FreeSync capability, depending on your brand of GPU. 121Hz or above refresh rate. Preferred 144Hz. Curved screens are quite nice, using one myself. Resolution is up to you, but I guess the 1080 is a thing of the past. Seems 2560*1440 or 4k is getting more popular among players as hardware capable of running them is there(1080Ti/Vega64). About VR ca not say a thing, waiting it out a bit. 

 

I hope gave some tips. My signature rig runs IL-2 at 2560*1080 at 80-150fps average. Hopefully you get a good rig

 

 

[Freycinet]

Thanks Flanker, great reply, I learned a lot!

 

As for assembling by myself, yes, I can probably do it, but will it be that much cheaper? I will want some extra features such as harddisk slots directly in the PC for my burgeoning media collection, i.e. photos of my kids (incl safety copy-harddisks), so the build could get a bit complicated. However, I will look into it when I end up knowing my final components list! 

 

I think with the RTC cards just around the corner I will wait and get one of those, but as you say, it is a good idea to wait for the real-life reviews.

 

It will definitely be a 4K screen. Isn't a curved screen at times annoying re reflections? I'm thinking that with a flat screen I can better move it to reduce reflections.

 

Will go and check out the Guru3D website, thanks for the tip!  

Oh yes, and definitely SSD. I avoided them back in 2009 for my last build, but now of course they're very mature and reliable.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Glad to help, even I am not a guru?Usually the sites building rigs should have pricing on assembling the machine etc. Could be from a few tens of Euros to much more. Building self is fun

 

A good case has slots for HDD, if need extra. I removed the bays as no need for them. Good combo could be in your case SSD for OS / games and maybe traditional HDD for images etc? 

 

I do not have problems with the reflections on my screen. For me the curved screen makes use of TrackIR more natural. For you a good IPS with GSync in case of RTX cards 

 

I like Guru3D site, reading it for years. Happy computer hunting

 

 

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

Here's another site that could be helpful whether buying or building.  I did my first build about 2 years ago and used this site for helping to choose parts.  Comparisons to all major components with user benchmarks.  There is a Build selection on the right where you can save your choices, etc.

 

http://www.userbenchmark.com/

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

3 hours ago, Freycinet said:

DCS/Il-2/CoD in hi-res VR: butter smooth and with all the bells and whistles

You may be disappointed, even with the best hardware.

 

Fortunately, the hardware choices for maximum performance in these flight sim are quite simple.

• CPU - Intel with the highest clockspeed (8600K or 8700K, soon to be 9th gen). With your budget, ignore Ryzen; poor single-thread performance makes it unsuitable for gaming.
• Motherboard - Any board with a chipset that allows overclocking and all the other features you want.
• Graphics card - GTX 1080 Ti. New RTX cards are coming, but expect very high prices for performance gains that are not yet known.

Be a bit careful with 4K. You won't be able to get 144Hz, which is certainly a tradeoff. Sometimes, the middle ground at 1440p 144Hz is nice for fast-paced gaming.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[Freycinet]

Thanks guys, good advice!

 

The new RTX graphics cards will do ray tracing much better than older cards, but I guess that is not really relevant for flight simming atm...

 

Mitthrawnourdoeo, thanks for your point about 4K monitors and their lower refresh rate. I think the only gaming I will be doing will be with VR goggles, though, so if I mainly use the monitor for photos, videos and browsing, would the lower refresh rate be a problem for me? 

 

 

 

Just read this article which gave a really good up-to-date overview re monitors, including explanation of technical terms on page 2.

 

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/08/06/best-gaming-monitor-2018-3/ 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

Mitthrawnuruodo. Please, stop spewing nonsense about Ryzen. It is good for gaming. I use one and have no problems in any game. I have used both Intel and AMD in my rigs over the years. 

[HunDread]

3 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Thanks Flanker, great reply, I learned a lot!

 

As for assembling by myself, yes, I can probably do it, but will it be that much cheaper? I will want some extra features such as harddisk slots directly in the PC for my burgeoning media collection, i.e. photos of my kids (incl safety copy-harddisks), so the build could get a bit complicated. However, I will look into it when I end up knowing my final components list! 

 

I think with the RTC cards just around the corner I will wait and get one of those, but as you say, it is a good idea to wait for the real-life reviews.

 

It will definitely be a 4K screen. Isn't a curved screen at times annoying re reflections? I'm thinking that with a flat screen I can better move it to reduce reflections.

 

Will go and check out the Guru3D website, thanks for the tip!  

Oh yes, and definitely SSD. I avoided them back in 2009 for my last build, but now of course they're very mature and reliable.

 

Regarding storage - I have only two SSDs inside my PC. One for the OS and the other one for programs/games. I have all HDDs on external docking stations with on/off switches. 

Pro's - No noise, no wear, no power consumption, no heat in case, no possible program to interfere while gaming like indexing and stuff

Con's - external physical space needed around PC, more wires

 

As for other hardware the guys have said it all...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 hour ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

Mitthrawnuruodo. Please, stop spewing nonsense about Ryzen. It is good for gaming. I use one and have no problems in any game. I have used both Intel and AMD in my rigs over the years. 

It is not nonsense. Ryzen performs poorly in Il-2 and most other games due to its inferior single-thread performance. This is clearly shown by a multitude of tests (1,2,3,). 

 

Ryzen still offers great value, but it’s an awful choice for a gaming system with a large $3000 budget, especially when VR performance is important. There, the difference between Ryzen and 8700K is enormous. 

2 hours ago, Freycinet said:

I mainly use the monitor for photos, videos and browsing, would the lower refresh rate be a problem for me? 

That’s right, it really wouldn’t matter for things outside gaming.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 For VR maybe, but my game runs at 80fps+ at ALL times, which is more than enough for playing IL-2 at 2560x1080. See signature. None of the maps make my system crawl. And most of my playing is online with varying settings, like Coconut, VirtualPilots etc. I let the motherboard do the OC to Ryzen, runs at 4.15GHz now. GPU is running 1552/1100MHz

Edited September 13, 2018 by LLv34_Flanker

[Freycinet]

I wonder if raytracing would ever matter in flight sims?

[Rjel]

I built my new system in February and I spent considerable less than $3000. By the time I bought a new monitor in June, I think it was slightly under $2000. The only thing I skimped on was the graphics card. Unfortunately that was when they were spiking due to crypto mining, but I have been happy with my 1050. It'll do for now until prices drop further on a 1080 or something better comes along that will really improve my IL-2 experience. Also an SSD is looming on my horizon as I've seen some really attractive prices on those lately.

 

For $3000 you should be able to spurge on some really top flight parts.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Rjel
spelling

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

I read ray tracing needs to be enabled by Microsoft as well in DirectX 12. And BoX is not DX 12. How easily could these new features be built into the existing graphics engine? The team is small and has their hands full of work already. And frankly how many gimmicks have you seen in games than in a few titles being their tech demos basically? I would wait for the in depth reviews of RTX cards before jumping the gun. Why pay a hefty extra for features that might not even be in IL-2? What can a 2080Ti do better in IL-2 than a 1080Ti? More frames? Well, the 1080Ti already screams thru IL-2 at any resolution, effortlessly. Calculate the price of the extra FPS A guy was bragging to me how his card X trumped my card Y with 10fps at max FPS while average and minimum were within 5fps. I asked how many Euros did those cost him? A lot. Without any effect on gameplay. I choose my hardware based on how it runs the games I play, like IL-2, BattleTech, RTS, some RPG etc. on the resolution I use. Now I get in IL-2 on ULTRA an average of over 80fps at all times and I am happy.

[chiliwili69]

1 hour ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Now I get in IL-2 on ULTRA an average of over 80fps at all times and I am happy.

 

Yes but the OP said he will fly in VR. Then the story is a little bit different. The clear bottleneck is the CPU.

[Freycinet]

Ah, Chili, so are you saying I should rather go for a beefy CPU and a not-quite-bleeding-edge graphics card?

 

Thanks for all the inputs, guys. You are really informing my upcoming buy!

[F/JG300_Gruber]

Yeah beefy CPU is what you want, especially for IL2.

Though with your 3k€ budget, both 8700K and a hybrid cooling 1080Ti should be easy to get.

 

We just did that a couple weeks ago for the VR rig of my GF. (2.6k€)

Edited September 15, 2018 by F/JG300_Gruber

[Art-J]

None of the combat or civ flight sims on the market nowadays are expected to implement RT (or sometimes even DirectX 12) in upcoming few years. Spending a metric shitton of money on 20xx card now is a nonsense then, unless it offers massive fps increase over 1080TI anyway. Will it do that is questionable at best, however. We won't know for sure until people specifically from  flight sim comunity get their hands on these cards and test them hard.

 

At the same time all those sims still have their roots deep in old codes and either rely heavily on single-core performance, or make some shy attempts of spreading the load across multiple cores, but still not as efficently as other genre games/apps designed for multicore from the ground up. I would go for the monster CPU first and see how much money is left for GPU later.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

10 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Ah, Chili, so are you saying I should rather go for a beefy CPU and a not-quite-bleeding-edge graphics card? 

 

Although I'm not too familiar with prices in your region, I think the others are right when they say that 3000 euro is sufficient for both.

 

The important thing to remember is that lowering certain settings can easily compensate for slightly weaker graphics cards. When performance is limited by CPUs, it's often not possible to gain additional performance by lowering settings.

 

Be sure to also get good RAM to further minimize CPU bottlenecks. Aim for something like 16 GB at 3200C15. A large cooler and "Z" chipset are also vital if you plan to overclock (there's no reason not to do it).

Edited September 16, 2018 by Mitthrawnuruodo

[dburne]

I will be doing a new build myself here toward the end of the year.

Already have an EVGA 2080 Ti FTW3 Ultra on pre-order, and will do the rest of the build later in the year.

Holding out for either i7 9700k or i9 9900k.

[Freycinet]

On 9/15/2018 at 10:25 PM, F/JG300_Gruber said:

Yeah beefy CPU is what you want, especially for IL2.

Though with your 3k€ budget, both 8700K and a hybrid cooling 1080Ti should be easy to get.

 

We just did that a couple weeks ago for the VR rig of my GF. (2.6k€)

 

Could you post the specs of that machine?

 

Thanks all! - Tho I am getting a bit more confused I am definitely confused on a higher level than I was before!  ?

[JonRedcorn]

3 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Could you post the specs of that machine?

 

Thanks all! - Tho I am getting a bit more confused I am definitely confused on a higher level than I was before!  ?

This is simple, no need for confusion, with 3k you can get top tier parts.

 

Intel 9700k or 9900k

ASUS z390 Maximus or z370 Maximus code/hero

2080ti by your choice of manufacturer I'd go with EVGA for the great customer service

G.skill DDR4 16/32 gigs 3200mhz

Seasonic 850 watt power supply

Get yourself a nice All In One Corsair water cooler, h100i

2x Samsung 860 evo 1tb SSD or 1x 2tb Samsung 860 evo SSD or go with the Samsung 960 NVMe SSD's for twice the performance but you'll pay nearly twice the cost of sata SSD.

Whatever case you want

 

Done deal. Do not bother with anything AMD for this game or really for anything else. Do not listen to anyone who says otherwise. I guarantee you will end up disappointed.

 

Edited September 17, 2018 by 15th_JonRedcorn

[F/JG300_Gruber]

9 hours ago, Freycinet said:

 

Could you post the specs of that machine?

 

 

i7 8700K 

H100i V2 watercooling

Asus TUF Z370 motherboard

EVGA 1080Ti SC2 hybrid

Samsung 860 1To SSD

2x16Go G-skill trident Z 3466mhz CAS16 RAM

1000W Be quiet power zone

 

Plus the casing, a few fans and the dvd writer. 

 

[LLv34_Flanker]

S! 

 

JonRedcorn. Just cut the crap right there. For VR going Intel is well warranted, no competition there. But claiming AMD will only dissapoint is just BS. Especially in normal gaming. Saying 4K or above and VR is the normal these days is not true. Biggest segment in hardware market is not in enthusiast level but a bit lower. For nVidia it would be 1050/1060, for AMD the RX580/similar. 

 

Flight sim market could use an overhaul to get more support for multiple cores. The age of single or dual core CPU is gone already. Minimum today is 4 cores with HT or similar. It is not the thing that devs could not do it, but it is propably down to time and resource constraints. Maybe one day.. 

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

Flight sim market could use an overhaul to get more support for multiple cores. 

On P3D v4.3, I can easily max 10 cores / 20 threads to 100%. Along with 100% on the 1080.

[F/JG300_Gruber]

21 minutes ago, ZachariasX said:

On P3D v4.3, I can easily max 10 cores / 20 threads to 100%. Along with 100% on the 1080.

 

Do you think if we ask kindly we could get some financial/technical support from Lockheed Martin for Jason and the team ? 

Edited September 17, 2018 by F/JG300_Gruber

[ZachariasX]

3 hours ago, F/JG300_Gruber said:

 

Do you think if we ask kindly we could get some financial/technical support from Lockheed Martin for Jason and the team ? 

LM has 10 years headstart. Jason will do the right thing.

[chiliwili69]

16 hours ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

Intel 9700k or 9900k

 

The OP said he wanted just DCS/IL-2/COD in VR.

 

As clearly demonstrated IL-2 in VR is not better with more cores (in fact you get more heat to remove). And I think (no facts on may hands) that DCS is similar to IL-2 with repect to dependency on single-cor performance.

 

So , the questions is: Which is is best CPU for IL-2 VR regardeless of the price?

 

Right know the best on the market is i7-8086K , since it allows maximum OC.

The i5-8600K is also a good CPU with better chances to reach higher OC freq. than the 8700K.

 

For the next 9th series intel processors to be released in October we have three candidates for max OC or single-thread performance:

 

i5-9600K 

i7-9700K, 

i9-9900K, 

 

The nice thing is that all these three use soldered thermal interface material (no more delidding then!!). So, the heat removal is more efficient and higher OC can be reached:

https://www.techpowerup.com/246847/intel-confirms-soldered-ihs-for-9th-gen-core-series?cp=2

 

I definitely discard the i9-9900K since the HT doesn´t help to IL-2  as it has been demonstrated in the performance thread. Don´t be impressed by the Turbo speed, the important thing is how far you can go with OC.

 

In our tests, the i5-8600K and the i7-8700K were delivering almost same performance both at 5.0GHz.

 

So for the i5-9600K vs. i7-9700K I think the difference will be very small (if any) for the same freq. But with the i5-9600K you would probably reach higher freqs. (same than 8600K vs. 8700K). Look this post:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37892-starting-the-research-on-a-new-pc-build-for-vr/?do=findComment&comment=639836

 

[Ehret]

Don't overlook the i3 8350K if you are interested in single thread performance. It has four cores, no HT, 8 MB of L3 cache and is unlocked of course.

[JonRedcorn]

12 hours ago, LLv34_Flanker said:

S! 

 

JonRedcorn. Just cut the crap right there. For VR going Intel is well warranted, no competition there. But claiming AMD will only dissapoint is just BS. Especially in normal gaming. Saying 4K or above and VR is the normal these days is not true. Biggest segment in hardware market is not in enthusiast level but a bit lower. For nVidia it would be 1050/1060, for AMD the RX580/similar. 

 

Flight sim market could use an overhaul to get more support for multiple cores. The age of single or dual core CPU is gone already. Minimum today is 4 cores with HT or similar. It is not the thing that devs could not do it, but it is propably down to time and resource constraints. Maybe one day.. 

He said he wanted to fly in VR, why would I recommend to him terrible parts for that? If you want to play at 1080p 60fps then sure get a ryzen and 480.

2 hours ago, chiliwili69 said:

 

The OP said he wanted just DCS/IL-2/COD in VR.

 

As clearly demonstrated IL-2 in VR is not better with more cores (in fact you get more heat to remove). And I think (no facts on may hands) that DCS is similar to IL-2 with repect to dependency on single-cor performance.

 

So , the questions is: Which is is best CPU for IL-2 VR regardeless of the price?

 

Right know the best on the market is i7-8086K , since it allows maximum OC.

The i5-8600K is also a good CPU with better chances to reach higher OC freq. than the 8700K.

 

For the next 9th series intel processors to be released in October we have three candidates for max OC or single-thread performance:

 

i5-9600K 

i7-9700K, 

i9-9900K, 

 

The nice thing is that all these three use soldered thermal interface material (no more delidding then!!). So, the heat removal is more efficient and higher OC can be reached:

https://www.techpowerup.com/246847/intel-confirms-soldered-ihs-for-9th-gen-core-series?cp=2

 

I definitely discard the i9-9900K since the HT doesn´t help to IL-2  as it has been demonstrated in the performance thread. Don´t be impressed by the Turbo speed, the important thing is how far you can go with OC.

 

In our tests, the i5-8600K and the i7-8700K were delivering almost same performance both at 5.0GHz.

 

So for the i5-9600K vs. i7-9700K I think the difference will be very small (if any) for the same freq. But with the i5-9600K you would probably reach higher freqs. (same than 8600K vs. 8700K). Look this post:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/37892-starting-the-research-on-a-new-pc-build-for-vr/?do=findComment&comment=639836

 

I saw leaks of the new chips hitting really high oc's like 5.5ghz that's why I recommended those chips. He has a basically unlimited budget, not worth going low cores just for Il2 if you reach the same clock speeds on whatever new intel chip it's going to be the same might as well have the extra cores/threads.

Edited September 17, 2018 by 15th_JonRedcorn

[kestrel79]

I'm thinking of an upgrade this year too. Looking forward to what you choose...with a little less budget than you  Curious how the new round of GPUs and CPUs will perform with IL2 and DCS compared to this gen.

[JonRedcorn]

On 9/17/2018 at 6:39 PM, kestrel79 said:

I'm thinking of an upgrade this year too. Looking forward to what you choose...with a little less budget than you  Curious how the new round of GPUs and CPUs will perform with IL2 and DCS compared to this gen.

The new 9k cpu's will either be exactly the same or slightly better due to slightly better overclocks. A delidded 8k series vs a 9k series will probably be the same. I don't think there is any IPC improvements to look forward to it's just 14nm+++.

[Freycinet]

Wauw, great to see that conversation got going here!

 

I have really learnt a lot. For the moment I am waiting for the reviews to come in on the new RTX cards to see if they are really worth it. 

 

Watercooling? I thought that was just a gimmick. Will my computer make nice bubbling sounds like an aquarium?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

5 hours ago, Freycinet said:

Watercooling? I thought that was just a gimmick. Will my computer make nice bubbling sounds like an aquarium?

It can be a gimmick when people use it just because it sounds cool. There is a common misconception that water always provides better cooling performance than air. However, strong air coolers work just as well as most water coolers.

 

You should consider water in the following situations:

• Building a custom water loop (best performance at the cost of messy setup and maintenance)
• Using a all-in-one water cooler in a case that is too small to fit a large air cooler
• Enjoying aesthetics or noise reductions from water cooling

In other cases, a good air cooler is usually the better option. Air coolers are always more reliable and generally easier to use. 

[Dakpilot]

I have been using closed loop watercooler for many years 24/7 (since  my 3570K was 'cutting edge' lol) without a single hitch. The included software has been useful, intuitive and simple to use. The H100i I used has now been updated with version 2 which also has good reviews. 

Closed loop systems are no gimmick, as simple to install to CPU as air-cooled and if the case is designed for radiator (as most are nowadays) can be installed by a five year old. There are multiple reasons most modern cars and motorbikes are water-cooled. With modern systems offering one click stable overlooking having cooling solution with ample headroom and simple automated noise/performance profiles available just makes sense to me. 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Dakpilot

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Keep in mind that a relatively modest air cooler performs just as well as the H100i v2. 

[Dakpilot]

I doubt at the same noise levels.. And the functionality of the included software is a clear bonus, I have never been happy with the engineering principle of hanging a heavy air cooler off the motherboard. Nothing wrong with air cooled beetles, they still work great.. But it will soon be 2019..? Carbs vs fuel injection etc. etc. Tech moves forward, I was very sceptical of water in my PC but I have been won over by my experiences

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, Dakpilot said:

I have been using closed loop watercooler for many years 24/7 (since  my 3570K was 'cutting edge' lol) without a single hitch. The included software has been useful, intuitive and simple to use. The H100i I used has now been updated with version 2 which also has good reviews. 

Closed loop systems are no gimmick, as simple to install to CPU as air-cooled and if the case is designed for radiator (as most are nowadays) can be installed by a five year old. There are multiple reasons most modern cars and motorbikes are water-cooled. With modern systems offering one click stable overlooking having cooling solution with ample headroom and simple automated noise/performance profiles available just makes sense to me. 

 

Cheers, Dakpilot 

 

Yes same here, I put an H100i on my current rig that I build in 2013 and it has been performing flawless for me. Very easy to install.

Will definitely be putting a version 2 on the new rig I will be building in couple of months or so.

[II/JG11_ATLAN_VR]

will upgrade from Oculus rift cv1 to pimax 5k+ this year if available

 

the only Thing which i will upgrade is GPU into a GTX1080ti when Price came down when RTX2080TI Comes available

 

my actual rig with GTX1060 6GB see below in signature

Edited September 22, 2018 by II/JG11ATLAN

[CanadaOne]

Video card process are great right now. Zotac, a brand a don't really know but that seems to have decent reviews, has a 1070ti mini for $530. That's what a 1060 was going for during the miner craze.

 

Just might buy it. Definitely buying a new card to up from my 1060 3gb, just not sure which.