The K-4 Isn't Special

[SCG_Syn]

Yea, go ahead and put the k4 at 1.8 ata. Give the Allies 150000 Oct. I don't care anymore honestly, its fusterating trying to have a discussion when everyone throws evidence out the door because it conflicts with their view. Give the Brits the Meteor, or the Germans the ta 152. 

 

What you can expect is nothing to shoot at in a server as all the German one siding.... Pilots.... won't be flying anymore and you will win the day!!! Good job! You won! Just like real life!

 

Have Fun shooting AI

 

Can I request to fly a V2 while were at it.

 

Call me when were back in 1942. Those were good days. The Russians finally have something against the F4 and it was a struggle of skill... Good days.

[Legioneod]

13 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Yea, go ahead and put the k4 at 1.8 ata. Give the Allies 150000 Oct. I don't care anymore honestly, its fusterating trying to have a discussion when everyone throws evidence out the door because it conflicts with their view. Give the Brits the Meteor, or the Germans the ta 152. 

 

What you can expect is nothing to shoot at in a server as all the German one siding.... Pilots.... won't be flying anymore and you will win the day!!! Good job! You won! Just like real life!

 

Have Fun shooting AI

 

Can I request to fly a V2 while were at it.

 

Call me when were back in 1942. Those were good days. The Russians finally have something against the F4 and it was a struggle of skill... Good days.

People act as if the 109 will be garbage without 1.98ata, it wont be. German aircraft will still be more than capable in Bodenplatte.

The only thing that is different with Bodenplatte is that the Germans will have fierce competition at all altitudes instead of just lower alt.

[PatrickAWlson]

Whatever the developers choose is fine, as long as the most common configuration is the default. Having sad that,  if my Pfalz can't zoom with a Mustang I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue!

[SCG_Syn]

I am referring simply to the fact it seems everyday somone request for a new plane because somone thinks their special plane Ex: spitfire mk 9 is'nt competitive enough and end up asking for somehting rediculous. The Ta-152 was around at Bodenplatte but you don't see me asking for it because 10 or so were used and it would be a king at high alt(I find flying a plane with a complete advantage over my enemy gets boring after a while). I just don't understand how people are so scared of having to face a decent 109 again that they deny all evidence, even that MiloMarai guy knows the k4 can go to 1.98 ata but deny frontline use of it. If this was even true I as a pilot would use 1.98 ata (as stated from Kurfurst it was a fairly easy modfication todo) because I value my life in the air over the lifetime of an engine or plane. I'm sure the Germans... No... Anyone who cared to live would agree aswell.

[JonRedcorn]

1 minute ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

I am referring simply to the fact it seems everyday somone request for a new plane because somone thinks their special plane Ex: spitfire mk 9 is'nt competitive enough and end up asking for somehting rediculous. The Ta-152 was around at Bodenplatte but you don't see me asking for it because 10 or so were used and it would be a king at high alt(I find flying a plane with a complete advantage over my enemy gets boring after a while). I just don't understand how people are so scared of having to face a decent 109 again that they deny all evidence, even that MiloMarai guy knows the k4 can go to 1.98 ata but deny frontline use of it. If this was even true I as a pilot would use 1.98 ata (as stated from Kurfurst it was a fairly easy modfication todo) because I value my life in the air over the lifetime of an engine or plane. I'm sure the Germans... No... Anyone who cared to live would agree aswell.

Your commander would likely have you jailed for destroying your own planes and going against orders...

[SCG_Syn]

Lets agree about one thing. The k4 with 1.8 ata is an easy picking for a p51 or spitfire mk XIV that has full boost mods and 150 oct. If you argue for 150 oct or XIV spitfire then you should also be in favor of 1.98 ata unless your so terrible at the game you can't face another aircraft that can pull its nose onto you. 

Just now, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

Your commander would likely have you jailed for destroying your own planes and going against orders...

Commanders were understanding of the situation of the war. And any good Commander would care about his men over his 10 serviceable aircraft XD. By this point the Luftwaffes command structure was nonexistent with no authority after the track record of Goring

 

[JonRedcorn]

2 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Lets agree about one thing. The k4 with 1.8 ata is an easy picking for a p51 or spitfire mk XIV that has full boost mods and 150 oct. If you argue for 150 oct or XIV spitfire then you should also be in favor of 1.98 ata unless your so terrible at the game you can't face another aircraft that can pull its nose onto you. 

Commanders were understanding of the situation of the war. And any good Commander would care about his men over his 10 serviceable aircraft XD. By this point the Luftwaffes command structure was nonexistent with no authority after the track record of Goring

 

Apparently nobody was running that boost level. And nobody across the channel was using 150 octane, problem solved.

[SCG_Syn]

I don't claim they were, direct that up to the guys above. You're looking for Talon I think, not me.

[Garven]

Life is oh so tough when your side has the only jet in game...

Edited September 16, 2018 by Garven_Dreis

[Talon_]

9 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

I don't claim they were, direct that up to the guys above. You're looking for Talon I think, not me.

 

I have a lot of documents that confirm widespread use of 150 octane fuel by the RAF 2TAF from the end of January 1945 until May 1945.

[sevenless]

18 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Whatever the developers choose is fine, as long as the most common configuration is the default. Having sad that,  if my Pfalz can't zoom with a Mustang I'm going to hold my breath until I turn blue!

 

LOL!

[SCG_Syn]

Aww, he deleted his reply. Just when they got into a fight...

Can somone explain this to me. What is the difference between a Griffon Spit and a Spiteful, or are they the same thing?

[sevenless]

3 minutes ago, Talon_ said:

 

I have a lot of documents that confirm widespread use of 150 octane fuel by the RAF 2TAF from the end of January 1945 until May 1945.

Well I´ve seen a few of the stuff you posted on this forum and having read a book or two about Spits in the NWE I can nothing but agree with you. My guess is that they will include that with the finished game.

[Talon_]

5 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Aww, he deleted his reply. Just when they got into a fight...

Can somone explain this to me. What is the difference between a Griffon Spit and a Spiteful, or are they the same thing?

 

Very different. Griffon Spits entered service on December 31st 1943, Spitefuls are a postwar development with a redesigned laminar-flow airfoil.

[Eicio]

What the point of this mess ?

 

You know that eventually the k4 will be out and you'll have all of the answers you're seeking.

 

There's no point in tearing yourselves apart.

[Garven]

Just now, Eicio said:

What the point of this mess ?

 

You know that eventually the k4 will be out and you'll have all of the answers you're seeking.

 

There's no point in tearing yourselves apart.

But it's fun.

[SCG_Syn]

1 minute ago, Eicio said:

What the point of this mess ?

 

You know that eventually the k4 will be out and you'll have all of the answers you're seeking.

 

There's no point in tearing yourselves apart.

True, its only a few weeks away

[JonRedcorn]

AXIS only flyers that play online get super salty when you take their advantages away. That's apparent.

[SCG_Syn]

When you don't fly only AXIS

 

Disclaimer: I do not intend for this to be a poltical message or anything other then a joke. Thanks for understanding

[MiloMorai]

Ah Sinerox, the only K-4s that can be confirmed of using 1.98ata are those assigned to II./JG11 Dec 23 1944 (12 ( a short staffel) and down to 9 by Jan 2 1945) for operational testing of 1.98ata. There has never been any proof, even by the resident 109 expert, that 1.98ata was used operational from Mar 20 1945 (this 12 days before the cut-off date for the Bodenplatte map).

 

You have much to learn Padawan. The 9th AF P-51s didn't use 100/150 avgas as didn't the 18lb Spitfire XIV.

[Talon_]

4 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

as didn't the 18lb Spitfire XIV

 

Just a note, we have confirmation that the Spit XIVs of 2TAF were on +21lbs and 150 grade fuel around the same time the Spit IXs were switching over from 31st Jan to 6th Feb 1945. In fact they just had to remove a stopper from the throttle quadrant as other than the new fuel the Griffon 65 required no modifications for the increased manifold pressure.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Talon_

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Yea, go ahead and put the k4 at 1.8 ata. Give the Allies 150000 Oct. I don't care anymore honestly, its fusterating trying to have a discussion when everyone throws evidence out the door because it conflicts with their view. Give the Brits the Meteor, or the Germans the ta 152. 

 

What you can expect is nothing to shoot at in a server as all the German one siding.... Pilots.... won't be flying anymore and you will win the day!!! Good job! You won! Just like real life!

 

Have Fun shooting AI

 

Can I request to fly a V2 while were at it.

 

Call me when were back in 1942. Those were good days. The Russians finally have something against the F4 and it was a struggle of skill... Good days.

 

lol what vvs 1942 airplane they have in game is match for F4? P-51 vs K4 is more fair matchup then anything 1942 vvs have vs F4 that is in game, but yes its good days when you have F4 that outclases anything oponent have but its differant story when airplanes get more closer to 109s late in war

1 hour ago, Legioneod said:

People act as if the 109 will be garbage without 1.98ata, it wont be. German aircraft will still be more than capable in Bodenplatte.

The only thing that is different with Bodenplatte is that the Germans will have fierce competition at all altitudes instead of just lower alt.

?

[SCG_Syn]

Just now, 77.CountZero said:

 

lol what vvs 1942 airplane they have in game is match for F4? P-51 vs K4 is more fair matchup then anything 1942 vvs have vs F4 that is in game, but yes its good days when you have F4 that outclases anything oponent have but its differant story when airplanes get more closer to 109s late in war

Mig vs f4 at high alt? 

La-5 vs f4 at low alt?

[PikAss]

Nice Profilpic Talon, you really want to prove your Point.

[SCG_Syn]

If I truly did'nt care I'd said 1941, the F4 was truly top dog then. 

[MiloMorai]

Talon, I was trying to placate those crying for 1.98ata.?

[Talon_]

3 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Nice Profilpic Talon, you really want to prove your Point.

 

These are just the ones I have definite sourced dates for too. There's no "proving" this point, it's historical fact.

[PikAss]

Is that some Kind of pray for paris Profile picture? Pray for Spitfire IX in this case.

[Talon_]

2 minutes ago, [3./J88]PikAss said:

Is that some Kind of pray for paris Profile picture? Pray for Spitfire IX in this case.

 

The devs can be historically accurate or they can be historically inaccurate, no praying involved.

[CountZero]

Just now, SCG_Sinerox said:

Mig vs f4 at high alt? 

La-5 vs f4 at low alt?

lol

 

f4 outruns both of them at high or low and outurn them and outgun them and outdives them ,only la5 can outroll it

Edited September 16, 2018 by 77.CountZero

[453=Thornley]

35 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

I am referring simply to the fact it seems everyday somone request for a new plane because somone thinks their special plane Ex: spitfire mk 9 is'nt competitive enough and end up asking for somehting rediculous. The Ta-152 was around at Bodenplatte but you don't see me asking for it because 10 or so were used and it would be a king at high alt.

 

You do understand that the Spitfire XIV was the RAF fighter in the 2TAF flying the mid/high air superiority missions covering the Spitfire IX, XVI, Tempests and Typhoons doing their work down low. There wasn't 10 of them. They were historically the main RAF fighter at those heights.

 

Demanding the Spitfire IX fly that role in BOX so it doesn't threaten the position of your precious Bf109K-4 is silly and unhistorical.

 

Bloodsplatter.

 

As stated before, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just want a historically based flight sim.

[SCG_Syn]

It is true, we have to prove that the k4 ran 1.98 because of not only the Null Hypothesis but also the lack of documentation due to most German documentation being destoryed, I believe( and so do others) we have provided nessecary information as have the people on your side of the argument without realising.

3 minutes ago, Bloodsplatter said:

 

You do understand that the Spitfire XIV was the RAF fighter in the 2TAF flying the mid/high air superiority missions covering the Spitfire IX, XVI, Tempests and Typhoons doing their work down low. There wasn't 10 of them. They were historically the main RAF fighter at those heights.

 

Demanding the Spitfire IX fly that role in BOX so it doesn't threaten the position of your precious Bf109K-4 is silly and unhistorical.

 

Bloodsplatter.

 

As stated before, I don't have a dog in this fight. I just want a historically based flight sim.

I said 10 referring to the ta 152... Read the post? go ahead and add the XIV, as I said I don't care anymore what you add. But I will contiune to voice my support for the K4s use of 1.98 ata. We can go back and forth saying "those guys keep crying about 1.98 or those guys keep crying about 150 oct" In the end it's only us crying and being children.

Edited September 16, 2018 by SCG_Sinerox
Spelling

[Talon_]

4 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

It is true, we have to prove that the k4 ran 1.98 because of not only the Null Hypothesis but also the lack of documentation due to most German documentation being destoryed, I believe( and so do others) we have provided nessecary information as have the people on your side of the argument without realising.

 

Honestly I am willing to listen on this. My point of view is entirely based in historicity and facts - I am willing to consider evidence right down to pilot accounts from squadron logbooks - the fact is that there just isn't this kind of information out there that we know of. Anything we do have is just not solid enough but a few pilot reports or further documentation to verify and I am happy to see the planes as they flew. I myself have spent hours cross referencing ORBS, books and data from various websites on the trail of +25lbs boost Spitfires and I appreciate the work that goes into it... If more evidence comes to light for 1.98 that is verifiable and agrees with other sources I fully support it.

[SCG_Syn]

Either way, have a good night gents. This is pretty pointless and subjective. Have a good evening/morning/whatever it is for you

[MiloMorai]

4 minutes ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

It is true, we have to prove that the k4 ran 1.98 because of not only the Null Hypothesis but also the lack of documentation due to most German documentation being destoryed, I believe( and so do others) we have provided nessecary information as have the people on your side of the argument without realising.

 

How many bases for I./JG27, III./JG27, III./JG53 and IV./JG53 can you find?

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/39355-the-state-of-german-avgas-stock-april-1945/

 

How much C3 avgas did they have?

 

[SCG_Syn]

Also Talon, I hope to see you in the skys again, I don't concurr that running out of fuel was rightfully the end of our engagment then.

[CUJO_1970]

How do you expect the developers to model 150 grade fuel, exactly? Should they include only the blessings and none of the maledictions that 150 grade fuel brought? That's a serious question.

 

There were some benefits to 150 grade fuel - there were also some very big problems. Are you expecting the developers to ignore them?

[CUJO_1970]

Maybe Spitfire could get FW190A-8 treatment.

 

Get access to +25lbs, but make sure it first overheats at +18lbs.

[Tuesday]

3 hours ago, 15th_JonRedcorn said:

AXIS only flyers that play online get super salty when you take their advantages away. That's apparent.

 

Actually they get salty just at the thought of it.

 

References: this thread, FM Discussion

[BraveSirRobin]

5 hours ago, SCG_Sinerox said:

Yea, go ahead and put the k4 at 1.8 ata. Give the Allies 150000 Oct. I don't care anymore honestly, its fusterating trying to have a discussion when everyone throws evidence out the door because it conflicts with their view. Give the Brits the Meteor, or the Germans the ta 152. 

 

What you can expect is nothing to shoot at in a server as all the German one siding.... Pilots.... won't be flying anymore and you will win the day!!! Good job! You won! Just like real life!

 

Have Fun shooting AI

 

Can I request to fly a V2 while were at it.

 

Call me when were back in 1942. Those were good days. The Russians finally have something against the F4 and it was a struggle of skill... Good days.

 

lol  At least you'll have some idea what it's like to fly VVS if the Allied fighters get 150 and the 109 is limited to 1.8.