USAF Museum and The Memphis Belle

[Rjel]

I never imagined I'd ever stand so close to this very famous B-17. What an incredible sense of awe it gave me. To ponder her history and the men who flew her was humbling. Spending today and tomorrow exploring the USAF Museum in Dayton, OH. So much to see. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Read this on another forum last week. Nice to see the restoration is complete. I visit that museum about every five years. As it's only been about three, this will make it worth it to bump up the schedule a bit.

[Danziger]

I like how they have it displayed gear up with doors open like it's coming over a target.

I also like the original scheme. Why they felt the need to change the paint scheme and nose art for the movie is baffling.

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Movies are movies and the B-17 was just a rental not the real Memphis Belle. Someone had to pay to paint it for the movie and then paint it back when it was returned to the actual owners.

[BraveSirRobin]

They actually left it in the MB colors.  Here is the plane used in the movie.

 

 

 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Fair enough. Still a good movie "based on actual events." So, I don't bemoan the paint too much on a third party plane. 

[BraveSirRobin]

How is the movie paint different from the original?

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

Flat overall dark olive upper and no pine green spots as at the USAF Museum. The Belle is depicted in a much lighter olive (weathered color?), almost tan, with fairly bright green spots at the museum. All of the online photo's of her in camo splotches are from the USO tour. It's unclear if that is the way she flew in combat. There is the staged photo, in Europe, for Yank with the spots.

 

As, I've alluded to earlier. It's worth it to see the real Belle at the museum for the history of the AC. Not to worry too much about the paint on her or the stand in.

 

Movies....................

 

Edit again: I said USO but I meant War Bond Drive tour.

Edited September 10, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf
clarification

[Danziger]

44 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

How is the movie paint different from the original?

Completely different nose art. Almost none of the other markings. No painted hubs. They basically just painted the Memphis Belle letters on the waist, painted some made up nose art and called it a day.

[Rjel]

As HerrMurf said, it's worth the time to come here. On my second day now and I wish I were here for the week. I've seen planes I never dreamt I'd see. B-36 near a B-47 not far from a B-58. It is amazing. This is all so well done. It's not just American but a Zero, George, Bf-109, Fw-190d, Me-163 and. Me-262. Not to mention all the transports and trainers. I will be coming back

[angus26]

2 minutes ago, Rjel said:

As HerrMurf said, it's worth the time to come here. On my second day now and I wish I were here for the week. I've seen planes I never dreamt I'd see. B-36 near a B-47 not far from a B-58. It is amazing. This is all so well done. It's not just American but a Zero, George, Bf-109, Fw-190d, Me-163 and. Me-262. Not to mention all the transports and trainers. I will be coming back

I loved seeing the nuke casings near the b-36. Really gives a sense of scale to how big the nukes were. 

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

It is a massive improvement over what it was in the early 80's when I first started going.

[Rjel]

5 minutes ago, angus26 said:

I loved seeing the nuke casings near the b-36. Really gives a sense of scale to how big the nukes were. 

No doubt. Standing next to the large aircraft it is still thought provoking that they truly can (or did) ever get off the ground. Reading measurements in a book does not relate to real life contact in my mind. 

[DaveP63]

14 minutes ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

It is a massive improvement over what it was in the early 80's when I first started going.

Cough, cough...early 70's

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

1 hour ago, Danziger said:

Completely different nose art. Almost none of the other markings. No painted hubs. They basically just painted the Memphis Belle letters on the waist, painted some made up nose art and called it a day.

 

Pretty close on these actually. It's debateable the hub covers were used operationally. Almost all of the photo's of Memphis Belle were staged for wartime morale. I wouldnt' get wound up around the axel on that........................see what I did there?

 

   

 

 

7 minutes ago, DaveP63 said:

Cough, cough...early 70's

 

Say old codger, did they have aircraft back then? 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by II/JG17_HerrMurf

[BraveSirRobin]

4 hours ago, Danziger said:

Completely different nose art. Almost none of the other markings. No painted hubs. They basically just painted the Memphis Belle letters on the waist, painted some made up nose art and called it a day.

 

Did you look at the photo that I posted?  The wheel hubs and nose art on the movie plane are virtually identical to the photographs that Herrmuff posted.  In fact, the nose markings on the museum plane look wrong.

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Did you look at the photo that I posted?  The wheel hubs and nose art on the movie plane are virtually identical to the photographs that Herrmuff posted.  In fact, the nose markings on the museum plane look wrong.

I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the pictures I took on a bigger screen but the nose art looks pretty close to me to the original. 

 

Does anyone one know what this "rod" is coming out of the bottom left side of the rear fuselage? My first thought was a relief tube but I'm not sure.

[BraveSirRobin]

4 minutes ago, Rjel said:

I'll have to wait until I get home to look at the pictures I took on a bigger screen but the nose art looks pretty close to me to the original. 

 

Look at the kill markers under the mission markers.  The original MB and the movie version both have them.  The museum MB does not.

[Rjel]

2 minutes ago, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Look at the kill markers under the mission markers.  The original MB and the movie version both have them.  The museum MB does not.

Strange. There are a couple of swastikas under the right waist position and the left nose so I'm not sure why the others were left off. 

[DaveP63]

16 hours ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

 

Pretty close on these actually. It's debateable the hub covers were used operationally. Almost all of the photo's of Memphis Belle were staged for wartime morale. I wouldnt' get wound up around the axel on that........................see what I did there?

 

   

 

 

 

Say old codger, did they have aircraft back then? 

 

Not as many as they do now, for sure. A lot more inside than out now thanks to the new buildings, but still many old favorites that have gotten some TLC over the years.

[-332FG-Gordon200]

11 hours ago, Rjel said:

Does anyone one know what this "rod" is coming out of the bottom left side of the rear fuselage?

 

Radio Beam Antenna.

https://www.joshuanava.biz/aircraft/d-1.html

Edited September 11, 2018 by Gordon200

[Rjel]

21 minutes ago, Gordon200 said:

 

Radio Beam Antenna.

https://www.joshuanava.biz/aircraft/d-1.html

Thx. I've never noticed that before in any B-17 picture I've looked at.

[DD_Crash]

DD_FunFlak is a volunteer there and has emailed Jason about the A6m2 but hasnt had a reply yet. Shame they dont have a Tempest there.

[Rjel]

A couple of Spits and a Mosquito though. Very cool looking that over. 

[angus26]

Did you get to try the F-4 phantom full motion flight sim? I'm not even sure if it's still there, last time I went was a while ago. 

[Rjel]

1 hour ago, angus26 said:

Did you get to try the F-4 phantom full motion flight sim? I'm not even sure if it's still there, last time I went was a while ago. 

No I didn't mess around with any but there were several different simulators scattered around. Even the Microsoft FSX. No one was flying it though, which surprised me a little. I was hoping there would be a working Link trainer to try out but I didn't see one. I was so amazed at all the A/C I never expected to see that I didn't take time to look at many of the other exhibits. Planning on going back next year. Two days just wasn't enough.

[Rjel]

 

 

 

On 9/10/2018 at 7:27 PM, BraveSirRobin said:

 

Look at the kill markers under the mission markers.  The original MB and the movie version both have them.  The museum MB does not.

 

I found this photo on the museum's website. The caption below this photograph helps explain why the "Belle" isn't painted featuring the swastikas kills markings under the bomb markers. If this is how she looked after her 25th mission, then those were applied later likely for the propaganda value and her upcoming war bond tour the crew undertook after returning to the States. My guess is the Memphis Belle now is represented at the AF Museum as looked the day this photo was taken.

 

"Maj Wyler (fourth from right) with some of the Memphis Belle crew. Wyler flew two of his five combat missions on the Memphis Belle, including the crew’s 25th mission. This photograph was taken after that mission—crew chief MSgt Joseph Giambrone is painting on the 25th bomb."

 

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[Cpt_Cool]

So they made Belle a blonde for the movie. Sure, not strictly historical but I will let it slide.