Realism

[beresford]

I spent a bit of time on an 'expert' server yesterday, as the 'normal' server was down.

 

1. As I expected, the plane position display on the map was disabled. But hang on, didn't some of these planes carry navigators?

2. How is it realistic to broadcast that I have taken off from <airfield> in a <plane type>? They didn't have satellite surveillance in those days.

3. Flying below about 2500m is suicide-by-AAA, so I'm doing level bombing looking down on a set of anonymous brown blobs trying to figure out which is the factory and which is a set of factory-like buildings. Sure the targets were not marked by bulls-eyes and large arrows, but the real crews had access before the flight to aerial recon photos analysed by boffins to identify target locations. Perhaps a future role for recon aircraft here.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

You are the navigator. In a bomber you can have a friend join as gunner and navigate for you...

 

Some servers like Virtualpilots.fi track aircraft available for players and airfields. The message of "took off from X in Y" is visible only to you

 

Recon photos are sometimes available! You should head to forums' multiplayer section to see if the server has a website with additional info including recon photos.

[Sketch]

I assume you were on Finnish Virtual Pilots. You can find all the information that you're looking for, about that server, here:

 

 

The server admins have everything that @LeLv76_Erkki suggested, including recon photos and messages that only sent to you when you take off.

 

On a side note, which is more 'realistic' - having a magic plane on a map that moves as the plane moves around or having the pilot use land navigation/flight time (maybe even a flight plan) to figure out where they are and how to get to where they need to be?

 

 

Another side note... If this is what we're complaining about; I think the game and developers are doing pretty good. ?

[RedeyeStorm]

Well given the fact that I am not a pilot so no nothing of navigating, we do not posess any kind of navigating tools at all. How realistic is it that you can only navigate by visually checking the map (basicly being forcoed to fly below cloud level)?

[Quinte]

You can navigate by computing courses and flight times beforehand just like they did back then if you want to. Nothing's preventing you from doing that.

It will all go through the window as soon as you get into any kind of prolonged fight though, so you'll have to reacquire some landmarks to start again.

Fighter pilots weren't flying with their compass and ruler on them, they had their maps marked in advance anyway. You can do that.

 

As far as I know, there wasn't much radar going on on the eastern front in the periods depicted, so there wasn't much ground-provided guidance either. On some planes you have devices that'll help you navigate back home though. Radio beacons.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

You do have the map, compass, clock and all the other gauges. Sometimes a direction finding radio antenna for flying to a beacon.

 

On popular servers the "GPS" is on, it kind of ruins the immersion when I drag someone for 40 km at treetop altitude and when he gives up he turns to perfect heading for home. Maps like Moscow are real PITA to navigate and I feel that not having to navigate takes a major element away from the game.

[SharpeXB]

Since the topic of this discussion is “Realism” yes that’s exactly what “realism” means. Navigating. Now what we face in multilayer that’s not “realistic” is starting from a new airfield at random every session. Career is more realistic that you fly over the same territory every flight and get used to it’s landmarks. Fighter pilots on the eastern front did in fact navigate by dead reckoning. And sometimes did get lost. Multiplayer also has the problem that frequently you’re flying alone which compared to the real war was hardly ever done. Following your flight leader or wingmen isn’t an option in mp. 

Some of the best most immersive flight sim experiences I’ve had involve navigating back to base with just a compass and moonlight. 

[LP1888]

I use my iPhone compass and a bit of fishing line for nav it’s easy, I play on coconuts expert and finish sometimes.

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

"dying i undermodeled" from a retired A-10 Pilot flying combat flight simulations.............

[Frenchy56]

On 9/8/2018 at 10:55 AM, [Pb]RedeyeStorm said:

Well given the fact that I am not a pilot so no nothing of navigating, we do not posess any kind of navigating tools at all. How realistic is it that you can only navigate by visually checking the map (basicly being forcoed to fly below cloud level)?

Pilots aren't magicians. You need to compare the ground and your map to figure out where you are. Look at landmarks like rivers, villages, airfield, or woods.

You don't need to break out dedicated navigation tools in the tactical air battle that was the Eastern Front. If you were flying across the Channel and 3/4 of the way through Germany then yes, those would help a lot.

Here all you need is right in front of you inside your cockpit.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Frenchy56

[SharpeXB]

Real pilots got lost sometimes too. 

[NETSCAPE]

On 9/7/2018 at 3:55 AM, beresford said:

Flying below about 2500m is suicide-by-AAA

 

Yep. AAA has 3 AI settings: low, normal, high. Normal is too accurate for 20-40mm type guns. 

[216th_Jordan]

32 minutes ago, NETSCAPE said:

 

Yep. AAA has 3 AI settings: low, normal, high. Normal is too accurate for 20-40mm type guns. 

 

Actually low would be accurate in terms of real world hitrates for single guns.

 

As for navigating: You know the speed of your plane and you have a compass, apart from that you have a map with rivers, forrests and towns that can with some training quickly be identified. So you check your speed and the time you travelled in a certain direction, that should give you a rough estimate of where you are so you can check the map to see if you can find the landmarks. Just keep in mind that IAS is not ground speed.

One square on the map is 10x10km, if you travel at 360 kph your plane will take 100 seconds to cross 10km, at 400 kph its 90 seconds etc. So travelling 5 squares at 400 kph will take you 7.5 mins.

Edited September 12, 2018 by 216th_Jordan

[NETSCAPE]

2 minutes ago, 216th_Jordan said:

 

Actually low would be accurate in terms of real world hitrates for single guns.

 

Agreed.

[GP*]

Navigation: clock to map to ground.

 

There's gotta be a 40s/50s/60s era youtube video on that.

 

EDIT: can't easily find a video, but the above method assumes you've mission planned and figured out turn points / landmarks, leg lengths, timing for planned groundspeed, etc. I doubt most MP players are doing that. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Go_Pre