HE111 engine damage - puzzled.

[beresford]

I'm taking off into the wind with two heavy bombs and a medium fuel load. Props are full forward, radiators about half open, Flaps 17 deg. It is August at Kalach. The plane won't 'unstick' until about 190kph and then I am immediately told that my engines have exceeded their takeoff limit. I retract gear and flaps and throttle back to 1.2 ATA, even though we're only doing 200kph,  but am then told that my engines are damaged and then failed and to prepare for a crash landing. Then I get a 'wrecking penalty'.

 

Any hints on what is wrong with this?

Edited September 3, 2018 by beresford

[JonRedcorn]

Need to reduce your RPM's. Check the specifications tab when you open the map. Will give you all the engine mode settings, you should be setting the engines to climb mode shortly after take off.

[beresford]

It's not giving me time to adjust anything, the engines are 'damaged' immediately after T/O. Should I be selecting a prop pitch other than 100% BEFORE taking off?

[Requiem]

You should be able to take off with full RPM and full power, but then you need to clean up gear and flaps and reduce power to 1.25 ATA and 2400 RPM for the climb itself (which is good for about 30 minutes). Don't run max power for longer than 1 minute, so if it's taking you longer than one minute to get airborne and cleaned up you are probably overweight.

 

I remember calculating that in the He-111 H16 if you take 60% fuel you can use any bombload and remain under the maximum takeoff weight. I can't recall the equaivalent for the H-6 model at the moment though.

[99.BAP_MaksimRukov]

With 20% fuel you´ve got enough fuel to fly across the map and back, at least in the H-6.

 

When loaded heavy I set the flaps in the H-6 after reaching take off speed. It helps reaching speed faster so the engines won´t run to long on take off power mode.

[beresford]

Thanks for those thoughts. Interesting that an experienced guy is delaying flaps until halfway down the runway. Were these aircraft REALLY this particular, they flew to London and back in the real war. I'm off to try again now my ban has expired.

 

Edit: OK, deployed flaps part of the way down the runway. It still didn't unstick easily and struggled up to 2000m in a series of small increments, at which point I decided life was too short to climb any further and went on the raid. I guess those two big bombs are an excessive load for the H6, even with no other mods and a reduced fuel load. They do make a big impression when they go off though

Edited September 4, 2018 by beresford

[BubiHUN]

If you fly a 111 for example, use 60% throttle to start rolling, then 100% when you have about 80-100 km/h

[Sgt_Joch]

He-111 is really underpowered and takes a long time to get in the air. If you are just trying bombers for the first time, the Ju-88 or Pe-2 are easier to learn on before tackling the Heinkel.

[Boomer52]

From my experience, I would agree with Sgt_Joch

[PatrickAWlson]

Glad I found this.  Was having the same problem.  I finally got an He111 into the air by reducing bomb and fuel load.  Used autopilot for much of the way.  Got to the target and took over control again. 

 

Twice I have burned my engines out over the target.  The first time I had 60% fuel and 16 50kb bombs.  I thought that my engine control wasn't awful but I was not completely paranoid about it (same engines as the 109 so I ran them in a similar way) so I guess i did mismanage them.

 

The second mission I forgot to reduce fuel, so I had 100% fuel and a load of 16 50kb bombs.  Catch-22 either crash because there is not enough power or crash because I have burned the engines out.  

 

I may have damaged the engines on the takeoff, so there is that as well.

 

So yeah, under powered doesn't even begin to describe this thing.  I will have to try 60% fuel, small bomb load, and really, really babying the engines.

[Nadelbaum]

I'm currently running a Bomber campaign with PWCG, flying the He111 H6. In some odd way I just love that plane.

 

60% fuel is way too much at least in the Moscow map if you have a full load. AI struggles with taxing and getting up in air even from a runway start. 

 

When starting your roll you want to pull the stick in order to lock the tailwheel. But once you are really moving you'll quite quickly want to push the stick a bit in order to let the tail lift from the ground as soon as possible to gather even more speed quicker.

 

It is also quite critical that you reduce RPM and throttle right after takeoff (gear up, flaps up at the same time) as the 1 minute takeoff limit is really short for the engines considering that you'll spend most of the time just gathering speed on ground.

 

In air pay attention to the oil and water temps! And keep RPM around 2250 and ATA around 1.15 and you should be fine when cruising.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Nadelbaum

[LukeFF]

10 minutes ago, Nadelbaum said:

When starting your roll you want to pull the stick in order to lock the tailwheel.

 

The He 111's tailwheel doesn't lock when pulling the stick back.

[Nadelbaum]

8 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The He 111's tailwheel doesn't lock when pulling the stick back.

I've always thought it does as rolling straight is super easy ? I stand corrected.

[PatrickAWlson]

7 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

The He 111's tailwheel doesn't lock when pulling the stick back

 

The only way I get it off the ground is to toe tap the brakes until I get rudder authority.  Of course, tapping the brakes slows you down a bit at a point where you are desperately looking for every KPH you can get.  I had flown the He111 inQMB before where it is quite a nice handling plane, but these are my first attempts at getting the thing off the ground in a campaign.  Pretty sure that both times I got airborne (took about 4 or 5 failures to get there) I damaged the engines on takeoff.

 

Note to self: change PWCG to cut back on heavy payloads and fuel.  Not just for the human but the AI as well.  They were really struggling to get airborne.

[LukeFF]

6 minutes ago, PatrickAWlson said:

Note to self: change PWCG to cut back on heavy payloads and fuel.  Not just for the human but the AI as well.  They were really struggling to get airborne.

 

Yes, I'm doing the same thing as well with the game's career mode. Setting it to about 50% seems to work well.

[DD_Arthur]

1 hour ago, Nadelbaum said:

 flying the He111 H6. In some odd way I just love that plane.

 

It's actually a great plane to fly

[Blackhawk_FR]

Strange as I never had this problem with 2,5T of bomb on a summer map. 

But fuel is a trap with the Heinkel. It can take enough fuel to fly all day long. With 800L you can fly more than an hour. So consider 1000L is way enough for most missions.

- I generally take off with 35% of flaps (20°). To me there is no need to put flaps out just before the rotation in the hope to gain speed quicker. At those speed the drag is still very light. I think that lifting the tail during the take off roll help more.

- Be patient and rotate only at 150-160km/h. Before, you will only take AoA that will generate drag, while not having enough lift to take off. 

- Retract the gear as soon as wheels are off the ground, do not try to get more than 1-2m/s climbing speed. I reduce power to 1.3 and 2400rpm once the gear is fully retracted.

- Retract flaps slowly once your are about 20m off the ground. 

- Start climbing once you reach at least 200km/h. 

- Also, I set elevator trim to -30% for take off, and -50% for climbing (it gives you ~220/230km/h).

 

Also, on summer map, it's important to have all radiators fully open. It gives you normal temp (90/100°C).

Edited April 25, 2020 by JG300_Faucon

[Angelkawa]

I was looking for some post like this, I had the same problem with the HE-111 

Tank you Guys!!!! 

[SIA_Target]

radiators about half open

 I open mine all the way until I'm able to get the prop pitch and ATA where they should be after wheels up. And as someone mentioned, toe brakes without rudder input are better to use to go merrily down the R/W. Not too much though.

 

[JG1_Wilcke]

I always check out the Air Combat Tutorial Library on YouTube, great resource that will save you a lot of wasted time burning up engines and other silliness.