Real plane Vs joystick

[NiiranenVR]

( a little toilet philosofi ?)

 

I can buy and use joystick pedals with Nano mm corection and so on ....

But how where the real Planes with wires .... And so on ... 

 

So .... What is most real ..... The old simple joystick/ pedals Vs the new sensitive joystick / pedals

 

Sire 

[NiiranenVR]

Well , maybe its only me who have great thougts In 'the little house' ?

 

But flying a plane in WW2 with wires and so , are it like Sliding in oil alltime or more like so and so ......... Like an cheap joystick or pedals that are not so sensative ? 

[THERION]

No, you're not the only one - I also have my thoughts about this, although not on the "throne"... 

 

But, you are right - I'm a motor biker and I've got a Zephyr 750. This ride is quite classic, meaning you can hear

all the mechanics, feel and smell the searing engine after a long ride. And the throttle is analog, meaning there

is no digital throttle input and computed aides like different setups for engine power management. Changing

a gear is noticeable - you hear and feel the "clack" when you engage the first gear.

 

And talking about cockpit feelings, I'm thinking of doing a throttle and joystick device with rods and more

mechanical parts for my needs. I've got some ideas, but their still in my virtual (cerebral) notebook for the

moment. I think of a combination of mechanical / digital device. At least at the end of this input device

you will have no choice to send the input signal from mechanical into digital to your computing system.

 

You see, there are some more "weirdos" out there...

 

Cheers

[NiiranenVR]

Yes, I know it's digital and can never be like the real one ...... But ....

I have a thrustmaster pedal and it goes not like a 'Hans in Grete'  ..... It's more I have to push with a little power - so difficult to just move 1 cm .... So it's not so sensitive .. ( make a move , and then a little bit back again ) 

But that's maybe more like a real plane 

 

Or is a crosswind more realistic ? 

 

 

[THERION]

I don't have Crosswind, so I can't tell if it's realistic - I've got a Saitek rudder pedals system. Not really realistic, but

still not as bad as some have stated.

 

I used to have those Thrustmaster rudder pedals, those famous RCS. Sturdy built, large foot pedals and so wide

apart it feels like being on a gynaecological chair...

 

I for the future want some BRD pedals - I like the look of these and the quality seems over the top. Thrustmaster

just announced a new pedal system, but don't know about the quality. Crosswind are good quality pedals too.

 

Cheers

[DD_Perfesser]

What will always be missing is the mass of real controls.

The pedals might be the same quality as Crosswinds but whats missing is the pair of 15 foot long  tubes (maybe cables but every pulley, every hinge has resistance too) that go back to the rudder plus you're moving something about the size of a regular  household door. Go swish one back and forth right now like you were dancing on the pedals on takeoff. That's without any air flowing across it.

It doesn't take much muscle to move it but it takes a LOT of muscle to move it quickly and precisely.  Not just flex your toe.

[Sokol1]

1 hour ago, Sire said:

I have a thrustmaster pedal and it goes not like a 'Hans in Grete'  ..... It's more I have to push with a little power - so difficult to just move 1 cm .... So it's not so sensitive .. ( make a move , and then a little bit back again ). But that's maybe more like a real plane 

 

Or is a crosswind more realistic ? 

[/quote]

 

 

First, ordinary game controllers (joystick, rudder pedals) are no able to replicate the physics forces involved in the "real thing" - ForceFeedback sticks can deceive you better in this matter, then compare their "feel" with real controls is a bit moth.

 

Problem of you pedal - TFRP I guess, is that their center mechanism (pompously called SMART) is very 'meh', subject to high friction in their rails, what make difficult control rudder with small pedal movements.

 

What you can do for improve then a bit is disassemble and lubricate their rails with Nyogel 767A - an expensive damper grease.

 

Baur, MFG, Slaw, VKB and the new Thrustmaster TPR have better center mechanics, with bearings and metal parts in pivots and customizable springs force, allowing a millimeter control of rudder around pedals center region, the most critical because pedals (and joystick) rely on springs to center and you end making more force than need for move then from "0" position.

 

I can't say that these are more "realistic", but they are more precise, giving you a better control over your VIRTUAL flight.

 

 

 

 

 

[NiiranenVR]

Yes ..... So neither a or b are close to reality ....

 

And yes , about the Rudder and the wind ..... Maybe IT would be more realistick if No spring in center but a spring opposite like push the spring/move against the wind ?

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

The more precise the stick the better. Real aircraft can be steered precisely and with little to no play to controlls. No joystick can really replicate that.

[=475FG=_DAWGER]

On 9/9/2018 at 5:17 AM, 6./ZG26_5tuka said:

The more precise the stick the better. Real aircraft can be steered precisely and with little to no play to controlls. No joystick can really replicate that.

If you use a Warthog with a 20 CM joystick extension the level of precision becomes very close to a real airplane. (Yes, I know firsthand)

 

Slaw pedals are as close to the real thing as you can get at the moment.

 

 

[SCG_motoadve]

Virpil with extensions and MFG rudder pedals, this controls feel a lot like the real thing (real pilot here).

 

Just wish for force feedback, controls get real stiff at speed, we do not get that if we dont have FF.

 

If you buy the best controllers you will not need to upgrade in a very long time, the precision they give its very gratifying and makes a world of difference in  the feeling of handling an aircraft.

[dburne]

Yeah IMHO either Virpil or VKB is the way to go, I am fortunate to have both and also the MFG Crosswind pedals. I should be set for quite some time as far as controller hardware goes.

 

Only issue with Virpil and VKB is the cost and the long waits to be able to get one. But both are well worth the cost and wait time.

[[CPT]Crunch]

I'd agree, one of the newer controllers with extension and mounted in the correct physical position, somewhere between the knees, is no longer in the "joystick" category.  It's a whole new level, especially when combined with VR.

[IckyATLAS]

Having flied not WWII but 1950's military fighter trainer plane that besides total engine power (much lower in the trainer) was basically similar, I would say that the rudder pedals in certain planes would feel more near the real thing than joysticks. If you do an installation with the rudder pedals well positioned (relative to your body) and spaced  (The Thrustmaster ones are nice but unfortunately the spacing is not good) then yes you are not far from a "good" physical feeling, mainly during taxing and strolling around on the tarmac. The moment you fly then if there is no force feedback on the rudder you loose some of the real stuff.

For the Joystick it is always wrong. Except for modern airliners that do indeed use joysticks and use artificial force feedback, the problem is that the motion is made by your wrist instead of your arm. If you have force feedback it is even worse because the force again is on your wrist. In the real case you have a long stick and the point of rotation is down on the floor, so the stick is much longer and you move it with all your arm (and the motion span is much larger in aerobatic maneuvers than the joystick small motion)  and depending on forces even with two of your arms after some time when your arm gets tired (you cannot sometimes continuously use the trim wheels to compensate the forces). So yes it is a completely different physical feeling.

For the throttle forget it, maybe except for those who fly jets (no experience here at all in my case) and have copies of the throttle like for the Thrustmaster one. In the real  WWII fighter planes except if you have a physical model copy, the feel is completely wrong. In my case I would need different levers of different lengths and different handles. The friction force is also different on each lever. 

[SCG_motoadve]

Agreed, normal joystick is only wrist movement, but joystick with extensions are much more realistic, but always missing the force feedback effect.