FW 190A8

[JV69badatflyski]

10 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

We got the A-8 because it was one of the Luftwaffe's primary air superiority fighters during Bodenplatte.

 

The A-8 as its stands in this sim is a broken airplane.

My Man, love ya sooo mucha.?
it's like 15 years ago on ubizoo.
We get now starting having the same stuff as before: the magical meredith, the super 25spit, the invulnerable p47 and really waiting with anticipation for the 0.50 whinners....
pop-corn bags, chips and six-packs are ready.
it's like seing Star wars for the second time when i was a kid, you know what will happen, but you still enjoy it

Back to the wurger:
More weight, yeah, bla-bla-bla continuous 1.42 (1820Ps)we forget, 1960Ps at emergency we forget, same ratio pwr/weight as the A5 we forget, same roll-rate as older versions we forget...and damned those pesky germans made the A8 the most build  version of all Wurgers...really, they were soooo stupid...
Really like to read the selective imaginary explainations about why the A8 was sooooooo bad in real life...

[Legioneod]

9 minutes ago, JV69badatflyski said:

My Man, love ya sooo mucha.?
it's like 15 years ago on ubizoo.
We get now starting having the same stuff as before: the magical meredith, the super 25spit, the invulnerable p47 and really waiting with anticipation for the 0.50 whinners....
pop-corn bags, chips and six-packs are ready.
it's like seing Star wars for the second time when i was a kid, you know what will happen, but you still enjoy it

Back to the wurger:
More weight, yeah, bla-bla-bla continuous 1.42 (1820Ps)we forget, 1960Ps at emergency we forget, same ratio pwr/weight as the A5 we forget, same roll-rate as older versions we forget...and damned those pesky germans made the A8 the most build  version of all Wurgers...really, they were soooo stupid...
Really like to read the selective imaginary explainations about why the A8 was sooooooo bad in real life...

People will find any reason to complain, funny thing is everything you mentioned has been asked for or talked about to some degree, except for the 50s, the .50 in this game are actually pretty beast.

 

[LeLv76_Erkki]

46 minutes ago, JV69badatflyski said:

My Man, love ya sooo mucha.?
it's like 15 years ago on ubizoo.
We get now starting having the same stuff as before: the magical meredith, the super 25spit, the invulnerable p47 and really waiting with anticipation for the 0.50 whinners....
pop-corn bags, chips and six-packs are ready.
it's like seing Star wars for the second time when i was a kid, you know what will happen, but you still enjoy it

Back to the wurger:
More weight, yeah, bla-bla-bla continuous 1.42 (1820Ps)we forget, 1960Ps at emergency we forget, same ratio pwr/weight as the A5 we forget, same roll-rate as older versions we forget...and damned those pesky germans made the A8 the most build  version of all Wurgers...really, they were soooo stupid...
Really like to read the selective imaginary explainations about why the A8 was sooooooo bad in real life...

 

Man dont forget about the aux fuel tank CoG shift on the P-51 that when fixed will make it easily out turn the 109!

[=362nd_FS=RoflSeal]

20 minutes ago, JV69badatflyski said:

 Back to the wurger:
More weight, yeah, bla-bla-bla continuous 1.42 (1820Ps)we forget, 1960Ps at emergency we forget, same ratio pwr/weight as the A5 we forget, same roll-rate as older versions we forget...and damned those pesky germans made the A8 the most build  version of all Wurgers...really, they were soooo stupid...
Really like to read the selective imaginary explainations about why the A8 was sooooooo bad in real life...

1.42 ata is just around 1700hp first, and second, in the manuals and therefore ingame it is still 3 min. A-8 is significantly heavier then the A-5 by nearly 300kg in empty weight which which is a big deal, and unlike the A-5, there is no option to remove the outer 20mm cannons, so it is more sluggish in the roll. If it wasn't for Erhohte Nostleistung (so pre-summer 1944) the A-5 would be the better fighter aircraft, A-8 is pretty much a specialised bomber destroyer with quad MG151. However since we have Erhohte Nostleistung, 1.58ata can compensate for the increase in weight below 500m and when second gear engages.

 

I believe the A-8 is roughly equal/slightly superior to the Lightning and Thunderbolt at low altitudes, slight inferiority to the Mustang, heavily disadvantaged against the Tempest. Against the Spitfire, don't play its game and you should be fine.

[=621=Samikatz]

The Fw-190A-8 is very good on the offensive; lots of guns mean you don't need much time on target, the roll rate is still very good, the high speed control is quite nice, and the frontal armour makes a head-on attack much less risky than other similar planes. The downside of it is if you get jumped there's very little you can do. Spinning and diving only really delay the inevitable and it takes a while to regain your altitude, you can't out turn... anything really, and you don't have the acceleration to escape from most things without a dive

 

It's not a fantastic aircraft, but it still has its charms and it's still fun to fly. Not everything can be the best plane

[LeLv76_Erkki]

Did they often remove the outer cannons IRL, in the A-8 specifically? I know the earlier variants, as did the A-8, saw lots of field modifications depending on mission and unit.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

1 hour ago, JV69badatflyski said:

Back to the wurger:
More weight, yeah, bla-bla-bla continuous 1.42 (1820Ps)we forget, 1960Ps at emergency we forget, same ratio pwr/weight as the A5 we forget, same roll-rate as older versions we forget...and damned those pesky germans made the A8 the most build  version of all Wurgers...really, they were soooo stupid...
Really like to read the selective imaginary explainations about why the A8 was sooooooo bad in real life...

 I agree that given 10 minutes at 1.58 ata the 3 minutes at 1.42 is wrong and should be extended, looks like the 1.32 was still the 30 mins combat setting though? If they increased continous to 1.42 then it should be that, but I don't know.

As far as "bla bla bla".... wing loading is a thing, if you increase the weight by several hundred Kg even by mantaining the power to weight ratio handling will be affected. With 1.58 ata the p/w is very similar yes, (in non ram conditions, like climbing/turning at sea level: 1.42 ata, 1800PS / 3.926 ton = 458,5 PS/ton and with 1.58 ata, 1950 PS / 4,391 ton = 444,1 PS/ton), but the wing loading goes up from 215 Kg/m^2 to 240 Kg/m^2.

Take some of the planes we have in game: La-5, Yak-1 and Bf 109 E-7 for example

Power to weight relation is:  La-5 > Yak-1 > Bf 109 E-7

Wing loading relation is:  Bf 109 E-7 < Yak-1 < La-5

And the most agile is the E-7, followed by the Yak and then the La-5. The La-5 has 1700 HP in a 3350 Kg airframe, yet lighter planes with better wing loading have more agility, even with the much higher power to weight ratio of the La, i'm not saying it's irrelevant, but it isn't all that matters.

I was wrong about acceleration, with similar p/w ratio it should be similar. In a quick test at sea level in Kuban autumn map going from 400 km/h to 500 km/h at full power and 50% shutters, the A-8 at 1.58 ata made it in 29.6 seconds and the A-5 at 1.42 ata in 30.24 seconds, they are similar in this regard.

 

[JV69badatflyski]

1 hour ago, LeLv76_Erkki said:

 

Man dont forget about the aux fuel tank CoG shift on the P-51 that when fixed will make it easily out turn the 109!

Forgot about that one ?
 

55 minutes ago, RoflSeal said:

1.42 ata is just around 1700hp first, and second, in the manuals and therefore ingame it is still 3 min. A-8 is significantly heavier then the A-5 by nearly 300kg in empty weight which which is a big deal, and unlike the A-5, there is no option to remove the outer 20mm cannons, so it is more sluggish in the roll. If it wasn't for Erhohte Nostleistung (so pre-summer 1944) the A-5 would be the better fighter aircraft, A-8 is pretty much a specialised bomber destroyer with quad MG151. However since we have Erhohte Nostleistung, 1.58ata can compensate for the increase in weight below 500m and when second gear engages.

 

I believe the A-8 is roughly equal/slightly superior to the Lightning and Thunderbolt at low altitudes, slight inferiority to the Mustang, heavily disadvantaged against the Tempest. Against the Spitfire, don't play its game and you should be fine.

Close that A8 manual from 1943 and never look at it again (unless there were A8 in production in 43? )
The 801D2 (let's call it model1) started with 1600HP 1.35Ata begin42, 1670HP end42 and 1770HP End43 when production stopped.
The 801model2 started to be produced end43, this one using parts designed for the F-Model. this is the engine you'll find in the A8. This one Achieved 2050HP at the end of the war, but most Docs will show 1960PS as most of them are from second half1944.
Now, IRL, the pilots weren't flying in dogfight arena's, they had real threatening life missions and removing guns had it's toll on the grease monkeys and the aircraft itself, it wasn't done with a mouse button.
So compare a standard A5 and Standard A8. +/-300Kg difference. Compare the weaponery (mg151), compare the ability to climb faster and stay longer in the air if needed(rear tank). Climbing at1.42, when you get at 6Km your rear tank is empty. Except for the difference in weapons, the possibility of flying at higher boost compensate the weight difference as the fuel is burned at higher rate. TheRoll rate on an A8 or A5 was the same. Kurt redisigned the wing on the A6 to accomodate the MG151 and being more rigid compensating the weight creep on the wings. Rigidity cancel the aeroelasticy that should have been induced by the weight creep of the outer guns. There is no delay on the ailerons on the FW's, if balanced correctly, they do their work perfeclty. Now look at actual cockpit footage of p-38 and you'll see what an aileron delay is.

Yes, there are still players that prefer missions instead of dogfights and that like to take a fully loaded plane like IRL and fly with the squad for 2 hours if needed.

 

46 minutes ago, =621=Samikatz said:

The Fw-190A-8 is very good on the offensive; lots of guns mean you don't need much time on target, the roll rate is still very good, the high speed control is quite nice, and the frontal armour makes a head-on attack much less risky than other similar planes. The downside of it is if you get jumped there's very little you can do. Spinning and diving only really delay the inevitable and it takes a while to regain your altitude, you can't out turn... anything really, and you don't have the acceleration to escape from most things without a dive

 

It's not a fantastic aircraft, but it still has its charms and it's still fun to fly. Not everything can be the best plane

That's a pb as the maniability af an A8 was the same as the older ones (ok, not full loaded ? )
A8 take off run is longer than an A5 (less than100m) but there are +/-350kg more to set in motion.
 

[CUJO_1970]

Love ya too Bada ?

 

The constant overheat at 1.42 ata for an aircraft capable of running 1.65 for ten minutes is a thermodynamic anomaly.

 

This overheat limitation renders the A8 tactically unusable throughout much of the performance band by severely restricting access to the power the engine did have in real life. In the end all you have are the restrictions and limitations of an older power plant mixed with the heavier weight of the A8.

 

The Germans knew what they were doing and compensated for the weight creep with the redesigned wing and a much more powerful engine. The weight creep was normal for a fighter of its day, even less than many. An A8 with a lower fuel load had a power to weight ratio close to a La5FN. The aircraft was noted for its agility, turn rate be damned. 

 

Many here seem seem to think it was a dog, and are satisfied that it can take off, fly, and shoot. 

 

The current FM seems fine to me, but it is difficult to tell fully because the engine model cripples the aircraft so badly. Fix that (because it's broken) and the A8 will be a headache for any contemporary fighter. 

 

 

 

 

[69TD_Hajo_Garlic]

On 8/25/2018 at 4:54 PM, LeLv76_Erkki said:

Did they often remove the outer cannons IRL, in the A-8 specifically? I know the earlier variants, as did the A-8, saw lots of field modifications depending on mission and unit.

Yes.  I know that some units divided up 190s into light (2 cannon) and heavy planes (4 cannon), lights handled escorts and heavys went for bombers.  Seeing as we are light on bombers this expansion, I was surprised not to see the option to remove the outer cannons.

[Bremspropeller]

1 hour ago, Joeasyrida said:

Seeing as we are light on bombers this expansion, I was surprised not to see the option to remove the outer cannons.

 

It should be an option, but percentage-wise relatively few A-8s operated in the 2x20mm configuration.

[MiloMorai]

3 hours ago, Joeasyrida said:

Yes.  I know that some units divided up 190s into light (2 cannon) and heavy planes (4 cannon), lights handled escorts and heavys went for bombers.  Seeing as we are light on bombers this expansion, I was surprised not to see the option to remove the outer cannons.

 

If you do a forum search you will find topics discussing the removal of the outer cannons.

[Livai]

Take a look at my test results. BTW the A-5 isn't faster than the A-8

 

Open Outlets

 

A-3 = 546 Km/h ( Maxed out fuel to max with 2x MG151/20 )

A-3 = 540 Km/h ( Maxed out fuel to max with 4x MG151/20 )

 

A-5 = 533 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 2x MG151/20 )

A-5 = 532 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 2x MG151/20 ) + Boost

A-5 = 527 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 4x MG151/20 )

 

A-8 = 524 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-5 and A-3 but with 4x MG151/20 )

A-8 = 535 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-5 and A-3 but with 4x MG151/20 ) + Boost

 

 

Closed Outlets

 

A-3 = 546 Km/h ( Maxed out fuel to max with 2x MG151/20 )

A-3 = 540 Km/h ( Maxed out fuel to max with 4x MG151/20 )

 

A-5 = 565 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 2x MG151/20 )

A-5 = 564 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 2x MG151/20 ) + Boost

A-5 = 558 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-3 with 4x MG151/20 )

 

A-8 = 556 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-5 and A-3 but with 4x MG151/20 )

A-8 = 568 Km/h ( Same fuel as A-5 and A-3 but with 4x MG151/20 ) + Boost

 

 

Fw-190 A-3

 

 

Fw-190 A-5

 

 

Fw-190 A-8