FW 190A8

[Legioneod]

Been flying the A8 recently in Berloga and I'm enjoying it so far, but it kinda feels like a dog. It still has a nice roll and high speed authority but it's rather slow imo, even the Spit seems equal or superior in some regards.

 

I know next to nothing about German aircraft but I was under the impression that the A8 was faster than the Spitfire and previous Fw190s, however in game I find it to be very sluggish compared to the Spit or other 190s.

 

I do like it's diving ability and it's zoom climb is wonderful, though I'm not sure if it's as good as the G-14s or not, I'll have to get more experience before making a conclusion.

 

So far I'm enjoying the A8 but it's nothing spectacular imo, the La5 is much much faster than it, even in a dive.

 

Keep in mind these are just my subjective experiences and they will probably change the more I fly.

[Dutchvdm]

It's quite a bit heavier then the A3/A5 and you notice that when turning. It also carries more fuel then the A3/A5. Speed wise i think it's pretty fast, but it does need it's boosted mode. Did you use that?

 

Grt M

[Finkeren]

Without the extra boost, it is a dog, as it should be.

 

On normal power settings the A8 was quite a bit slower than its predecessors, for obvious reasons as it is both heavier and more draggy than the A5.

[Legioneod]

6 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

It's quite a bit heavier then the A3/A5 and you notice that when turning. It also carries more fuel then the A3/A5. Speed wise i think it's pretty fast, but it does need it's boosted mode. Did you use that?

 

Grt M

Yep everything maxed out including boost. It's not all that slow but it aint as good as I thought it'd be. To be fair, the only aircraft that were even able to hang were the Spitfire and the La5. In the La5s case it was far superior in speed and outran me no problem at all.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Legioneod

[Dutchvdm]

2 minutes ago, Legioneod said:

Yep everything maxed out including boost. It's not all that slow but it aint as good as I thought it'd be.

 

Someone might correct me on this one, but it think the A8 was trending towards bomber killer and not fighter vs fighter. And to be fair... With 2 x 13mm/20mm/30mm and extra armor you really can't go wrong.

 

Grt M

Edited August 24, 2018 by I./ZG1_Martijnvdm

[Legioneod]

Just now, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

Someone might correct me on this one, but it think the A8 was trending towards bomber killer and not fighter vs fighter. 

 

Grt M

I'd have to agree with this. If I had bombers to kill it's probably be an outstanding aircraft but it's rather average in fighter vs fighter.

[Finkeren]

Just now, Legioneod said:

Yep everything maxed out including boost. It's not all that slow but it aint as good as I thought it'd be.

 

Honestly, I don’t know why you’d expect that. I always thought of the A8 as an equivalent to the Bf 109G6: Basically an up-gunned version of its predecessor and starting to get too heavy for its own good.

 

The ultimate fighter among the Antons was the A9, the A8 was mostly just an attempt at cramming even more firepower into that small airframe.

[Dutchvdm]

Just now, Legioneod said:

I'd have to agree with this. If I had bombers to kill it's probably be an outstanding aircraft but it's rather average in fighter vs fighter.

 

I think you are right. Does someone know if the A8 was used as a fighter on the eastern front? 

 

Grt M

[Legioneod]

2 minutes ago, Finkeren said:

 

Honestly, I don’t know why you’d expect that. I always thought of the A8 as an equivalent to the Bf 109G6: Basically an up-gunned version of its predecessor and starting to get too heavy for its own good.

 

The ultimate fighter among the Antons was the A9, the A8 was mostly just an attempt at cramming even more firepower into that small airframe.

Oh I expected it to be a dog, I knew it was going to be the worst fighter among the Bodenplatte lineup. I just didnt expect it to feel as average as it does. It's not a bad aircraft though, I'm able to do well in it and I'm enjoying it.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Legioneod

[Finkeren]

5 minutes ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

I think you are right. Does someone know if the A8 was used as a fighter on the eastern front? 

 

Grt M

 

AFAIK the A8 was the most-produced variant of the Antons, so my guess would be, that it was used just about everywhere.

[LeLv76_Erkki]

I tested it briefly yesterday in Stalingrad Autumn and achieved 590 kmph(gauge speed) at 300 m. Full fuel and weapons. Its not slow.

[kramer]

A8 with erhöhte notleistung is good over performance gap (2 to 2,6 km).

The only problem is completely different engine/oil heating model in compare with A5 - the temperature in every circumstances is 15-20 degrees higher than A5. I posted it in bug section after some discussion with other guys.

[CrazyDuck]

Fw190 A8 is not a fighter. It's a flying locomotive with FlakVierling pointed forward. Fly it as such.

[SCG_Fenris_Wolf]

It's overheating way too quickly afaik. People have already reported it in the bug section. 

 

Its engine should run longer on high power settings after it got fixed, and with less drag (cowl shutters currently need to remain wide open). 

 

You can fly it as a fighter with 300l of fuel. It's quick, can take a beating, and only needs one pass to kill anyone. It's a plane to fly in team, like all 190s. If you want to go yolo solo acrobat, you're better off with the 109. 

[Legioneod]

5 minutes ago, SCG_Fenris_Wolf said:

It's overheating way too quickly afaik. People have already reported it in the bug section. 

 

Its engine should run longer on high power settings after it got fixed, and with less drag (cowl shutters currently need to remain wide open). 

 

You can fly it as a fighter with 300l of fuel. It's quick, can take a beating, and only needs one pass to kill anyone. It's a plane to fly in team, like all 190s. If you want to go yolo solo acrobat, you're better off with the 109. 

I've never experienced overheating yet, even while flying maxed out then again I don't really survive for long enough to notice.

[Dutchvdm]

1 hour ago, Finkeren said:

 

AFAIK the A8 was the most-produced variant of the Antons, so my guess would be, that it was used just about everywhere.

 

Well i did some (Not really extensive) searching and there where not a lot off them. Some units of JG54 and JG5. But surprisingly few. A lot of Jabo unit's offcourse, but that's no surprise. 

 

Grt M 

[Barnacles]

I had a session on berloga with it and it was extremely effective, thanks to it's powerful engine and firepower. Lots of 600kmh passes, one pass kills etc

 

I think though the map they run (on Berloga) has a far lower temperature than the scenery suggests, as I tried the same tactics with a low fuel load on another server, and the a8 just didn't quite have the 'oomph' to stay out of touch.

[Dr_Molem]

1 hour ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

Well i did some (Not really extensive) searching and there where not a lot off them. Some units of JG54 and JG5. But surprisingly few. A lot of Jabo unit's offcourse, but that's no surprise. 

 

Grt M 

 

 

[Dutchvdm]

9 minutes ago, Dr_Molem said:

 

 

 

Thanks! That's what i expected. 

 

Grt M

[Asgar]

4 hours ago, Legioneod said:

Been flying the A8 recently in Berloga and I'm enjoying it so far, but it kinda feels like a dog. It still has a nice roll and high speed authority but it's rather slow imo, even the Spit seems equal or superior in some regards.

 

I know next to nothing about German aircraft but I was under the impression that the A8 was faster than the Spitfire and previous Fw190s, however in game I find it to be very sluggish compared to the Spit or other 190s.

 

I do like it's diving ability and it's zoom climb is wonderful, though I'm not sure if it's as good as the G-14s or not, I'll have to get more experience before making a conclusion.

 

So far I'm enjoying the A8 but it's nothing spectacular imo, the La5 is much much faster than it, even in a dive.

 

Keep in mind these are just my subjective experiences and they will probably change the more I fly.

just a straight answer without reading through every reply due to time constraints... the A-8 is basically an A-5 with a couple hundred kilos of extra armor, armament and fuel. so yeah... it's heavy.

[MasserME262]

How did you use it in berloga? I couldn't find it in the planeset last time I joined the server (monday), or did they add it?

[Legioneod]

4 minutes ago, ME-BFMasserME262 said:

How did you use it in berloga? I couldn't find it in the planeset last time I joined the server (monday), or did they add it?

They just added it, was playing with it yesterday.

[Dr_Molem]

1 hour ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

Thanks! That's what i expected. 

 

Grt M

 

Meanwhile in 1944 on western front the Fw 190A-8 was flying missions from ground attacks, to bomber interceptions, without forgetting the classics freie jagd.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Dr_Molem

[Aap]

JG54 was using A8's on Eastern Front (Courland pocket) at the end of the war. 

Also an interesting detail, apparently Fw190 A8 was able to fit in 4 persons, when really needed. At the end of the war, when pilots/soldiers in Courland pocket preferred to look into other options than surrendering to Red Army, a Fw190 A8 (W.Nr. 682 790) evacuated to Sweden with four men on board (Walter Ständer, Rudolf Vogel, Heinz Tatenhorst and Günther Herchet). Also two F8's went to Sweden on the same day with three men on board of both. 

[JtD]

7 hours ago, Finkeren said:

the A8 was mostly just an attempt at cramming even more firepower into that small airframe

 

As well as more power, range, electr(on)ics and versatility - at a lower unit cost. And it wasn't just an attempt.

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, I./ZG1_Martijnvdm said:

 

I think you are right. Does someone know if the A8 was used as a fighter on the eastern front? 

 

Grt M

 

Yes, it was, with JG 54 and parts of JG 51. 

[III/JG53Frankyboy]

sorry, but of what "additional heavy armour" in a Default A-8 some of you are talking about ??

 

 

[Dutchvdm]

26 minutes ago, III/JG53Frankyboy said:

sorry, but of what "additional heavy armour" in a Default A-8 some of you are talking about ??

 

 

 

Don’t have all the details, but i believe the ring around the engine front was off thicker armor. There might be more small differences. 

 

Grt M

[=EXPEND=CG_Justin]

All I can say is, thank God were getting the D-9. Given that we are only getting one AI medium bomber to use it against, it's going to be very difficult to use the A-8 effectively against the late war allied fighter aircraft. Shooting down formations of B-25s will be fun, but I have feeling it's going to relegated to either ground attack, or the hangar. I guess in the right hands, some people will have luck with it, but the only reason I will fly it is for high speed ground strikes and close air support. Its fast and heavily armed, now all you need is for the enemy fighters to always fly straight and level.

[Finkeren]

1 hour ago, =BAIT=CG_Justin said:

All I can say is, thank God were getting the D-9. Given that we are only getting one AI medium bomber to use it against, it's going to be very difficult to use the A-8 effectively against the late war allied fighter aircraft. Shooting down formations of B-25s will be fun, but I have feeling it's going to relegated to either ground attack, or the hangar. I guess in the right hands, some people will have luck with it, but the only reason I will fly it is for high speed ground strikes and close air support. Its fast and heavily armed, now all you need is for the enemy fighters to always fly straight and level.

 

I am certain, that ground attack capabilities was exactly the reason we got the A8 and not the A9.

 

With no dedicated bomber at all, the Germans will rely heavily on fighter-bombers, and the Fw 190F8 is the cream of the crop in that regard.

[Frenchy56]

2 minutes ago, CUJO_1970 said:

We got the A-8 because it was one of the Luftwaffe's primary air superiority fighters during Bodenplatte.

 

The A-8 as its stands in this sim is a broken airplane.

The primary air superiority fighter of the Luftwaffe was the Bf 109. By the events of Bodenplatte most, if not all 190's on the Western front were relegated to ground attack and bomber interception.

 

No wonder it's heavy as a brick.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Frenchy56

[Bremspropeller]

On 8/24/2018 at 12:19 PM, Dr_Molem said:

 

 

 

That is true to some extent, but not all the way. JG 54 sent one Gruppe (III./JG 54 in ealy 43) permanently and JG 26 sent a Gruppe and one Staffel east to make up for it. The Schlageter Gruppe and Staffel came back west quickly, though.

JG 51 sent II. Gruppe to the MTO but the rest stayed in the east.

 

A funny anecdote is that the former Ju 87 pilots had a totally different feeling about the 190 - they finally weren't dead meat anymore and could not only run, but stand up and pick a fight with the VVS. Like anybody else, they considered enemy flak to be far more troublesome than enemy fighters.

There has to be a russian bias-thingy going on about the 190. They never really seemed to understand the aircaft - much the opposite of the RAF.

 

1 hour ago, Frenchy56 said:

The primary air superiority fighter of the Luftwaffe was the Bf 109. By the events of Bodenplatte most, if not all 190's on the Western front were relegated to ground attack and bomber interception.

 

That's a much too broad statement - particularily as many 190 units were gradually coming "back east" with the retreating western front. They had went west with the invasion and retreated fighting. Bombers were the least of their concern at that point.

In late '44 most Reich-based 190s were Sturmjäger or other specialized/ special purpose airframes (like Mosquito hunters or the odd night fighter).

Edited August 25, 2018 by Bremspropeller

[MiloMorai]

51 minutes ago, Bremspropeller said:

There has to be a russian bias-thingy going on about the 190. They never really seemed to understand the aircaft - much the opposite of the RAF

 

I put this down to the Russians engaging Fw190Fs which weren't as 'nimble' as the Fw190As.

 

July '44 (Kursk) 228 As and 107 Fs on hand but a year later, 6.44,  was 34 As and 183 Fs.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Quote

Yes, it was, with JG 54 and parts of JG 51. 

 

Only the Stab - rest of '51 lost their 190s before the A-8 was introduced. JG54 became the only Fw190 fighter wing with continuous service on the EF, minus III Gruppe from 1943

 

Quote

I put this down to the Russians engaging Fw190Fs which weren't as 'nimble' as the Fw190As.

 

Also a change on outlook; by the time 190s appeared in sufficient quantity to be known by much of the VVS the latter had better a/c, more training and more confidence. The '109s bad', '190s easy' suggests something of a group / folk memory illustrating the difference between the beleaguered years 1941-43 (experienced 109 units out hunting) and the months of success 1944-45 (fewer fighters in evidence, 190s more likely to be ground-attack a.c). By contrast in the West there were  a lot of 190s units flown by experience pilots that remained very dangerous.

 

Quote

In late '44 most Reich-based 190s were Sturmjäger or other specialized/ special purpose airframes (like Mosquito hunters or the odd night fighter).

 

Not really. 190 Sturmgruppe were IV/JG3, II/JG4 and II/JG300 (IIRC). 190s were occasionally used in special roles (formation keepers, some Wildesaur) but not as often as 109s. JGs with 190s in 'normal' - that is to say multi-role use - by Normandy were:

 

I / II/ JG2 (JG2 became all 190 by end of year)

I/II JG26 (JG 26 became all 190 by end of year)

 

I/II JG1(JG1 became all 190 by end of year)

I/III/JG11 (II Gruppe retained 109s)

 

I/II JG301

III / IV JG 54

Some of JG300 and 302 (but bit confusing)

 

 

First 2 are Luftflotte 3, the second 2 are Reich(but get moved to France under DGW) and 3rd lot convert or come into being as day-fighters mid-'44 and have a complex unit history, switching back and forth Western / Eastern fronts. The SG units were separate and though the standard 190s also focused on bomber attacks and some ground-attacks, a lot of them were fighters and retained in the West. By comparison, Luftflotte 1, 4, 5 and 6 are mostly 109s fighter units with SGs switching in and out as required / available

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by EAF19_Marsh

[Legioneod]

4 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

We got the A-8 because it was one of the Luftwaffe's primary air superiority fighters during Bodenplatte.

 

The A-8 as its stands in this sim is a broken airplane.

I wouldn't call it broken, it's still good in proper hands, have had good luck with it and I'm a pretty poor pilot. It wont be much competition once we get better aircraft like the P-47 or P-51 but it can still score kills if played smartly.

 

It's going to be a fun aircraft to fly when doing ground attack.

 

Also, Berloga isn't really the best setting to test the A8 strengths, everyone knows where you are and you all start at the same alt, with similar fuel, etc.

Once we get more mission oriented servers for Bodenplatte I'm sure the A8 will do well and prove itself a capable fighter.

[MicEzo]

4 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

The A-8 as its stands in this sim is a broken airplane.

 

I would say it's recreated very well in the sim.

There are two bugs. It has an engine temperature about 15-20 C higher than A5 when using the same settings and it's rockets slows F8 by 175km/h what is about 10 times more than it should.

 

But this are bugs and this is an early access.

[DSR_A-24]

If you're having troubles with the Fw-190A8 you're only going to have the same problems with the P-51D and P-47D-28. Since the flying characteristics are closest to those of the heavier American aircraft. However I'm confident the Fw-190A8 is significantly faster than a Spitfire IX. La-5 is just a speed demon down. Ideally you don't want to go below 2500m in a Fw-190A against a La-5 or 7.

Edited August 25, 2018 by DSR_T-888

[Bremspropeller]

3 hours ago, EAF19_Marsh said:

Not really. 190 Sturmgruppe were IV/JG3, II/JG4 and II/JG300 (IIRC). 190s were occasionally used in special roles (formation keepers, some Wildesaur) but not as often as 109s. JGs with 190s in 'normal' - that is to say multi-role use - by Normandy were:

 

I / II/ JG2 (JG2 became all 190 by end of year)

I/II JG26 (JG 26 became all 190 by end of year)

 

I/II JG1(JG1 became all 190 by end of year)

I/III/JG11 (II Gruppe retained 109s)

 

I/II JG301

III / IV JG 54

Some of JG300 and 302 (but bit confusing)

 

 

First 2 are Luftflotte 3, the second 2 are Reich(but get moved to France under DGW) and 3rd lot convert or come into being as day-fighters mid-'44 and have a complex unit history, switching back and forth Western / Eastern fronts. The SG units were separate and though the standard 190s also focused on bomber attacks and some ground-attacks, a lot of them were fighters and retained in the West. By comparison, Luftflotte 1, 4, 5 and 6 are mostly 109s fighter units with SGs switching in and out as required / available

 

 

Yes, really.

Concerning the 190:

 

JG 2* and JG 26* had been based at the Channel forever and fought their way back into Reichsgebiet on the front. => Fighters.

 

JG 1** had mainly been based in the Netherlands and was sent to the Invasion front during DGW after a brief stay in the Reich. They eventually went to Auffrischung in fall '44 south of Berlin, had a brief period in Reichsverteidigung only to go back to the front during the Ardennes operations. JG 1 and 11 then went to the east. => Fighters for the most part.

 

JG 300** was a Sturmjäger outfit but gradually reverted to plain vanilla airframes. => Bomber interceptors and fighters.

JG 301/ 302** were special purpose units (mostly Wilde Sau) at first and then blended into plain vanilla operations. => Bombr interceptors and fighters.

 

III./JG 54* was a frontline unit from Invasion, through Auffrischung till assimilation into JG 26. => Fighters.

IV./JG 54 was pulled off the eastern front and disbanded in early 45. => Bomber interceptors and figters.

 

One asterisk indicates units that would convert to Doras.

Two asterisks indicate units that started but didn't comple transition to Doras or only recieved a couple of airframes.

 

 

 

[Legioneod]

1 hour ago, DSR_T-888 said:

If you're having troubles with the Fw-190A8 you're only going to have the same problems with the P-51D and P-47D-28. Since the flying characteristics are closest to those of the heavier American aircraft. However I'm confident the Fw-190A8 is significantly faster than a Spitfire IX. La-5 is just a speed demon down. Ideally you don't want to go below 2500m in a Fw-190A against a La-5 or 7.

Agreed. One of the reasons I'm flying the 190 so much. The P-51 and P-47 are quite a bit faster than the A8 but the fighting styles are similar, though the P-51 ain't a bad turner your're just better off energy fighting in it.

 

As far as the P-47 goes, energy fighting is it's strength, it can stick with a 190 in most cases but it's unwise to get into any kind of turning fight when flying the P-47. If you're good in a 190 you'll be great in a P-47, both have very similar characteristics imo, they both roll very well and they excel at energy fighting.

[-=PHX=-SuperEtendard]

The cooling issue hampers a bit the A-8, but not so much so that it's useless imho, with 45% shutters and 1.58 ata you can mantain 577 km/h at sea level without overheating, which is slightly faster than the Bf 109 G-14. And it can mantain it for 10 minutes, unlike the normal A-5, and it has the bennefit of 1.65 ata at the second supercharger gear unlike the Jabo A-5.

If you close the shutters to 20% and make a run for the deck, it will mantain 585 km/h, a bit faster than the La-5FN, it will eventually overheat, but you have some time before that happens if you start with a cool engine. Also Bodenplatte's winter setting will help with this problem. It also helps that the plane can be used without the bomb pylon, unlike the one from 1946; but maybe it's negated by the fact that the other planes will also be able to be used in clean configurations as well, like the wip P-47 screenshots show.

After all the airframe alone is 285 Kg heavier than the A-5 comparing empty weights, and with full fuel and ammo it's 465 Kg heavier (standard weights, A-5 without wing guns), so that affects maneuverability and acceleration quite a bit, even with the increased power of 1.58/1.65 ata.

But as CrazyDuck said: it's a flying Flakvierling  that should be it's selling point, with teamwork it can be a deadly opponent. If we had the Typhoon it would be it's main counterpart, also a flying Flakvierling btw

Edited August 25, 2018 by -=PHX=-SuperEtendard