What was the coolest German aircraft concept...

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

5 hours ago, Feathered_IV said:

After much though, I always find myself coming back to the Bachem Ba-349.  An operational flight in one of those would have been a very crowded few minutes.

Wouldn't come that far since the single testflight it had resulted in midair explosion leaving the others grounded. Not few were captured intact by allies.

 

Would take a Fi 103R Reichenberg over the Natter anytime.

 

The engine sound itself would be worth it.

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[Corto]

For me? The Horten Go 229! 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Corto

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Fastest Prop Plane (non turbo prop) of ww2 and the 50's

DO-335
Pic in spoiler due to Swatsi on tail.

Spoiler

General characteristics

Length: 13.85 m

Wingspan: 13.8 m

Max. takeoff weight: 9,600 kg (21,164 lb)

Powerplant:  2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603 A 12-cylinder inverted engines, 1,750 PS (1,287 kW, 1,726 hp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 765 km/h (475 mph) (Not in a Dive, but level cruise)

Service ceiling: 11,400 m (37,400 ft)

Armament

1 × 30 mm MK 103 cannon

2 × 20 mm MG 151/20

Up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bombload
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then the Spy plane Variant was also cool tho little info about it. .

Edited August 26, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[MiloMorai]

P-51H, 487mph and it was produced in some numbers. 

[Rjel]

17 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

P-51H, 487mph and it was produced in some numbers. 

P-47M and P-47N also exceeded the top speed of the Do-335.

[MiloMorai]

[Rjel]

I guess I was wrong. I thought I'd seen them both listed as exceeded 480 MPH.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Who is talking about at altitude ?  like 25,000 Feet where the air is thin.

Do335 did 475mph at 500ft or Sea Level on deck.

P4x did 345mph to 359mph and p51 like 380mph @ Sea Level on deck afaik.
 

[MiloMorai]

1 hour ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Who is talking about at altitude ?  like 25,000 Feet where the air is thin.

Do335 did 475mph at 500ft or Sea Level on deck.

P4x did 345mph to 359mph and p51 like 380mph @ Sea Level on deck afaik.
 

 

That be some specially juice you be drinking.

 

Do335

SL: 580kph (360mph)

6.4km (21kft); 763kph (477mph)

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Source link please..

[AndyJWest]

Here's a source on the D0 335.

Quote

The Dornier Do 335 was one of the fastest propeller-driven aircraft ever flown. The Germans claimed that a pilot flew a Do 335 at a speed of 846 km/h (474 mph) in level flight at a time when the official world speed record was 755 km/h (469 mph).

https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/dornier-do-335-0-pfeil-arrow

 

That's from the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. Note that they don't say that the Do 335 flew at 846 km/h. They say that the Germans claimed it did. It would be nice to see the results of the tests conducted post-war in the US, but if they are online anywhere I've not been able to find them.

 

The Do 335 was an impressive aircraft, certainly. Had the Luftwaffe managed to get it into service in significant numbers, it would most definitely have been a nuisance to the Allies. Claims as to its performance should probably be taken with a pinch of salt though. There are multiple examples of prototype aircraft (Allied and Axis)  demonstrating performance figures that production aircraft entirely failed to match, and given the conditions in which quantity production would have been taking place, I suspect that quality control would have been a major issue.

[Bremspropeller]

The coolest thing in IL-2 '46 was hauling that 1000kg bomb around in a 335 and winning a map by overwhelming the opposite fighters at the speed of heat ?

[Gambit21]

Foo Fighters

[MiloMorai]

2 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Source link please..

 

The Do335  book by Smith/Creek/Hitchcock.

[BOO]

2 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Source link please..

What is your source?

[MiloMorai]

Since you are incapable of doing an I-net search, here is a document from the book I found on the I-net.

Edited August 28, 2018 by MiloMorai

[Jaws2002]

Do335 could have been a scary fast fighter, but Hitler didn't let Dornier to make fighters. He said that Dornier has to make bombers, so the plane had to have a bomb bay.

 

Now imagine a plane like a long nose FW190 with that kind of engine arrangement. Replace all the stupid Me210, 410 with that and you have a real pack of interceptors.

Edited August 28, 2018 by Jaws2002

[kestrel79]

I've seen a few photos of chopped off fuselage/bubble top 109s that look sweet. Wonder if those were ever made or prototyped or are they just fantasy?

[MiloMorai]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:30 AM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Fastest Prop Plane (non turbo prop) of ww2 and the 50's

DO-335

General characteristics

Length: 13.85 m

Wingspan: 13.8 m

Max. takeoff weight: 9,600 kg (21,164 lb)

Powerplant:  2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603 A 12-cylinder inverted engines, 1,750 PS (1,287 kW, 1,726 hp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 765 km/h (475 mph) (Not in a Dive, but level cruise)

Service ceiling: 11,400 m (37,400 ft)

Armament

1 × 30 mm MK 103 cannon

2 × 20 mm MG 151/20

Up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bombload
 

 

DeHavilland Hornet

[Diggun]

30 minutes ago, MiloMorai said:

DeHavilland Hornet

a plane so cool you can fly it in a suit and tie....

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Regarding PM from MiloMorai
" You going to man up about being wrong? "

To be honest mate i not even looked back at the thread since my last post as its meaningless minutia i replied to when board ?

But to be clear I said AFAIK (that means As far As I Know)
so that means i did not make a claim of certainty therefor it can be wrong or right and it does not matter, its simply a reference
in this case i was simply quoting the wrong specs so i was wrong.
(not sure how thats manning up but ok you like testosterone)

That being said Also i would trust the German flight test report before i trust the british or american tests or a museums best guess.

Internal flight tests of ones own planes during war has little need for Propaganda (as the only ones you are lying too is a few engineers and officials so its pointless,)
not like they would build a production line because one guy was like oh yeah i went 800kph in it you must trust me, so build it.

On the other hand tho Post war flight tests or Data crunching for other nations like UK or USA there is a increased desire to falsify data (create propaganda)
To make the victors seem more superior, keep history as written and so on.

Made up Example:
It would be like if in 1975 the(Us/Uk) found Evidence for 100% certain that Me163 flew and not in a dive but at alt broke the sound barrier in 1944 almost 2 decades before chuck yager.
That info would never have been released ever and if anything all reference to it Destroyed or kept locked up or false claims created.
 

Edited August 30, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[AndyJWest]

Made up response to made up Example.

 

If I was obliged to try to break the sound barrier in a WW2 aircraft, the Ho 229 would be my least-favourite choice, unless I was particularly keen on dying for the Fatherland. 

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Fixed it.

[AndyJWest]

Me 163 is a bit more plausible (it at least has a decent-sized fin),  but I'd like to see some serious analysis regarding controllability at transonic and supersonic speeds first. Flying wing aircraft with relatively little wing sweep are generally fairly marginal in pitch stability, and when you factor in transonic shock waves possibly blanking the elevons, along with the rearward movement of the centre of pressure if you actually achieve supersonic speeds,  the whole thing could get extremely nasty, extremely quickly. Unless of course the Luftwaffe also had a super-seekrit digital computer laboratory hidden at the South Pole, and could equip the thing with a fly-by-wire system.

[Bremspropeller]

There's no chance the 163 would go supersonic and the pilot lived to tell about it.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

My point was not the plane.. I could have used a BF110 G2 in a dive with broken props passing mach 1 for a ramdom extreme example.

My point was even if that evidence was found and it really happened the US/UK(allied powers) 
would do everything in their power to destroy that evidence and keep it hidden or create propaganda counter to it,
There is no way they would let the nazi's be the first, this is still evident today with claims like how they invented jet engine and not the germans.)

[DD_Arthur]

Dear me Sshadow.  What a strange world you live in.

[Pict]

Interesting question that I've never given much thought to before now.

 

I like interceptors and find the Me163-B fascinating, so looking for a development of that, where some of the  Me163's issues were addressed, I would go for this... 

 

Arado E.381 parasite rocket powered interceptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arado_E.381

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BOO]

2 minutes ago, Pict said:

Interesting question that I've never given much thought to before now.

 

I like interceptors and find the Me163-B fascinating, so looking for a development of that, where some of the  Me163's issues were addressed, I would go for this... 

 

Arado E.381 parasite rocket powered interceptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arado_E.381

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice that they'd take so much care of the pilot against bullets. Cant help but think bullets would be the least of his problems thought....

[BeastyBaiter]

Always had a soft spot for the Me-163 and Ho-229.

[LukeFF]

12 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

There is no way they would let the nazi's be the first, this is still evident today with claims like how they invented jet engine and not the germans.)

 

Newsflash: the British were the ones who invented the jet engine. 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

1 hour ago, LukeFF said:

 

Newsflash: the British were the ones who invented the jet engine. 

The germans had operational jet engines since 1939 that were taken to flight while the British were still stuck at test stands trying to solve the issues of the Whittel engine Looking back at the outcome it's fair to say both were pretty much even in developing the first operational jet engines.

 

For the sake of posting pictures of cool looking aircraft have a He 178.

[Cybermat47]

13 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

My point was not the plane.. I could have used a BF110 G2 in a dive with broken props passing mach 1 for a ramdom extreme example.

My point was even if that evidence was found and it really happened the US/UK(allied powers) 
would do everything in their power to destroy that evidence and keep it hidden or create propaganda counter to it,
There is no way they would let the nazi's be the first, this is still evident today with claims like how they invented jet engine and not the germans.)

 

59 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

 

Newsflash: the British were the ones who invented the jet engine. 

 

Luke’s right. From what I can find, while the Germans were the first to actually build an operational jet engine, the first man to actually design the theory of a jet engine and to build a prototype was Frank Whittle, an Englishman. In fact, his patent for the jet engine was what inspired and informed Hans von Ohain’s working design. So I think that the British get the credit here.

 

As for the Allies actively destroying evidence of discoveries made by the Nazi regime, I doubt it. People still know that it was the Nazis who discovered that smoking can cause cancer - arguably one of the most important discoveries of the modern age.

 

Of course, using the facts won’t convince people who buy into the whole argument of “it was just propaganda, all of that evidence is fake”. I’ve argued with enough Holocaust deniers to know that. Hell, there are some people who think that the American Civil War is a hoax based on that argument 

[6./ZG26_5tuka]

13 hours ago, PB_Cybermat47 said:

Luke’s right. From what I can find, while the Germans were the first to actually build an operational jet engine, the first man to actually design the theory of a jet engine and to build a prototype was Frank Whittle, an Englishman. In fact, his patent for the jet engine was what inspired and informed Hans von Ohain’s working design. So I think that the British get the credit here.

A patent doesn't give credit to development but invention. It's still true that the first jet engine to sucessfully take to the air was a german axial flow engine.

 

Since both rely on different working principles their developments were completely seperate of which Ohain's came to fruition earlier.

Edited September 1, 2018 by 6./ZG26_5tuka

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

I think you missed the point i was making about the comment regarding claims.

anyways Even if the germany completely designed the first jet engine then the british kidnapped the guy tortured him and stole his planes (That would never make it into the history books)
It would be some story how a farmer in Britain thought of the idea one night while counting his sheep and invented the jet engine ? ?

But thanks for Clarification on the Info about Do-335 i as only going based on 1 or 2 old doco's hence the AFAIK

 

Edited September 1, 2018 by =TBAS=Sshadow14

[MiloMorai]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:30 AM, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Fastest Prop Plane (non turbo prop) of ww2 and the 50's

DO-335
Pic in spoiler due to Swatsi on tail.

  Reveal hidden contents

General characteristics

Length: 13.85 m

Wingspan: 13.8 m

Max. takeoff weight: 9,600 kg (21,164 lb)

Powerplant:  2 × Daimler-Benz DB 603 A 12-cylinder inverted engines, 1,750 PS (1,287 kW, 1,726 hp) each

Performance

Maximum speed: 765 km/h (475 mph) (Not in a Dive, but level cruise)

Service ceiling: 11,400 m (37,400 ft)

Armament

1 × 30 mm MK 103 cannon

2 × 20 mm MG 151/20

Up to 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) bombload
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then the Spy plane Variant was also cool tho little info about it. .

 

Where is the AFAIK?

[MiloMorai]

Yes be sure the Allies kept hidden, destroyed and created propaganda from what they got from the Germans with Operation Paperclip. Things were going south with the Soviets.

[Bremspropeller]

22 hours ago, 6./ZG26_5tuka said:

It's still true that the first jet engine to sucessfully take to the air was a german axial flow engine.

 

Since both rely on different working principles their developments were completely seperate of which Ohain's came to fruition earlier.

The HeS 3 actually was a centrifugal flow engine. Von Ohain's first design also was centrifugal flow.

The german axial designs only came a bit later.

America had an axial flow engine in development around 1940-ish.

 

Neither the Brits nor the Germans "invented" the jet engine. Gas turbines and the reaction-principle had both been known for decades, respective centuries.

Like with many iterative inventions/ applications of knowns to different fields (what the jet engine really was), the jet-engine had been concieved by several different people at around a similar time. No need for technological nationalism.