Fw 190A8 cooling

[JG27*PapaFly]

On 11/18/2018 at 7:26 PM, JG27_PapaFly said:

 

Dear developers, the real life climb test series with the boosted A8 I mentioned also contains tests that were flown at lower boost settings equivalent to those of an A5. The same cooling flaps setting was used and the engine showed no overheat signs during the 12 minute climb to 8000 m.

 

I think the A5 cooling scheme should also be adjusted.

Flying at slow speed and full A5 boost on a 24 degree day for 12 minutes without overheat and with cooling flaps at 75% is quite convincing. The tests contain detailed temperature diagrams for all boost settings.

    http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/BMW_VB_126.pdf

[JG27*PapaFly]

Half a year has passed and nothing has changed. The 190A8 is still quite useless and as unpopular as ever. I feel ripped off.

[Heckpupper]

3 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

Half a year has passed and nothing has changed. The 190A8 is still quite useless and as unpopular as ever. I feel ripped off.

 

Don't we all haha ?

Honestly devs please look at this issue, I know people like myself would love to get their hands on the Bodenplatte aircraft but one sweep over the forums just makes you think twice.

[Ehret]

The P-39L also started to overheat easily after the patch which added black streaks. You can even get coolant venting without any warning nor high reading from temp gauges.

[supersqwack]

bump.

agree that the 190 overheating issue is significant and crippling.

maybe with enough posts the devs will take notice

[CUJO_1970]

Please be patient it’s only been 6 months ?

 

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Next time don't get early access.  Problem solved.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

On 11/20/2018 at 5:15 PM, Matt said:

It doesn't.

 

This issue still exists, but it is a known issue.

 

Have to agree here. Even though the current situation is not optimal, it still is early access. Bodenplatte hasnt even been released, so the current planes from BoB K4, P47, Spit Mark IX and 190 A8 are theoretically still in the beta phase. I guess that there should be a big disclaimer "in beta" on all of them and the fact that some have less issues than others doesn´t change this. It´s good that they have aknowledged the problem. IMO the only thing you can do is wait until the final product is released.

[JG27*PapaFly]

8 hours ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

 

Have to agree here. Even though the current situation is not optimal, it still is early access. Bodenplatte hasnt even been released, so the current planes from BoB K4, P47, Spit Mark IX and 190 A8 are theoretically still in the beta phase. I guess that there should be a big disclaimer "in beta" on all of them and the fact that some have less issues than others doesn´t change this. It´s good that they have aknowledged the problem. IMO the only thing you can do is wait until the final product is released.

Fully agree, but if they are beta they shouldn't be available on online servers. EU official is packed with spitfires that are UFOing around, making the whole thing look more like star wars than WWII air combat. We shoot them down all the same, but the online experience is ridiculous. On the flipside, if devs release early access planes for online use they should make sure the quality is there. The Spitfire 9 is a cheat.

[BraveSirRobin]

59 minutes ago, JG27_PapaFly said:

Fully agree, but if they are beta they shouldn't be available on online servers.

 

Complain to the server owner.  Or don’t fly on servers where they are available.

[JG27*Kornezov]

I think the whole purpose of the beta is to let the people play and test them. When the test is done issues can be identified, so the developers can have a feedback. If nobody cares about the feedback, why releasing beta? 6 months is a reasonable time to expect to have an identified issue to be addressed.

Hopefully now the projects shifts back to Bodenplatte and we have better expectations.

But if people are afraid to whine on the forums that will not happen.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JG27_Kornezov

[303_Kwiatek]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:25 AM, 71st_AH_Barnacles said:

I hope one day they break the FM on the 190 A8 so it doesn't overheat all the time.

 

 

On 3/6/2019 at 8:44 AM, Han said:

 

This day is here.

 

My test - summer, Fw 190 A-8 circling at max throttle with repsect to engine time limits (engine helper is on) at 200..1500m at 250..300km/h (a the limit of stall). Engine cowl outlet shutters 100% opened.

No overheat after 30 mins.

So overheat start to appear only in speed is drop below 250 km/h and disappear when speed grow above 250 km/h.

 

I see no general troubles here.

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr_Molem]

No general troubles, as there was none back in the days when Anton-3 was a pig for an entire year. ☺️

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

Not so sure they are working on the problem anymore 

Edited March 8, 2019 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[303_Kwiatek]

It looks that everything is ok so why they should work even if it is still beta?

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by 303_Kwiatek

[CountZero]

So the problem is in 190A5 to good coling in game, hope they fix that then ?

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

On 8/27/2018 at 7:19 PM, LukeFF said:

 

Or it was neither of the above and just one of things that happens in early access. Code gets changed at the last moment, things slip through, etc. It happens. Appreciate that people are finding these things, but at the same time, these continual claims that testers aren't testing things is really getting old. 

 

Just a question, Han‘s comment did not seem like it slipped through. Is there a way that you as a tester can get this through to the devs or find out whether they are actually working on it, because it did not sound like it.

The discrepancy between the A5 and the A8 really doesn’t make sense and it has been like that for some time now. A simple

copy Paste of the A5 heat model to the A8 would be simple and a lot more realistic.

Edited March 9, 2019 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[Willy__]

13 hours ago, 77.CountZero said:

So the problem is in 190A5 to good coling in game, hope they fix that then ?

 

Like the La5s cooling ? Cool! I hope they fix that aswell

[CountZero]

1 hour ago, Willy__ said:

 

Like the La5s cooling ? Cool! I hope they fix that aswell

 

lol what la5 has to do with 190s but i understand you well ?

 

if 190a5 and a8 have same coling and engine how is posible that one overheat and other dont on same setings, so its either a8 thats wrong or a5, and if dev say all is ok with a8 , then they should fix a5 as its clearly coling engine to good then, its just logical ?

 

from specs for both a5 and a8, all same, so how come one overheats and other dont on same settings, they both cant be right

 

"Engine:

Model: BMW-801D

Maximum power in Emergency mode at sea level: 1700 HP

Maximum power in Emergency mode at 5700 m: 1440 HP

Maximum power in Combat mode at 700 m: 1520 HP

Maximum power in Combat mode at 5300 m: 1320 HP

 

Engine modes:

Nominal (unlimited time): 2300 RPM, 1.2 ata

Combat power (up to 30 minutes): 2400 RPM, 1.32 ata

Emergency power (up to 3 minutes): 2700 RPM, 1.42 ata

 

Oil rated temperature in engine intake: 60..70 °C

Oil maximum temperature in engine intake: 85 °C

Oil rated temperature in engine output: 105 °C

Oil maximum temperature in engine output: 120 °C

Cylinder head rated temperature: 180 °C

Cylinder head maximum temperature: 220 °C

Supercharger gear shift altitude: automatic"

Edited March 9, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[L3Pl4K]

11 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

if 190a5 and a8 have same coling and engine how is posible that one overheat and other dont on same setings, so its either a8 thats wrong or a5, and if dev say all is ok with a8 , then they should fix a5 as its clearly coling engine to good then, its just logical ?

 

from specs for both a5 and a8, all same, so how come one overheats and other dont on same settings, they both cant be right 

You should be in mind, that both can be wrong. A5 depending on altitude and A8 in general.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

31 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

if 190a5 and a8 have same coling and engine how is posible that one overheat and other dont on same setings, so its either a8 thats wrong or a5, and if dev say all is ok with a8 , then they should fix a5 as its clearly coling engine to good then, its just logical ?

 

Because tests show that it’s more likely the cooling in the a8. But since you are such an expert on the issue why don’t you show us the information where it states otherwise?  I mean you have been posting to great length already, so posting something that backs up your rants would actually contribute something rather than continue your uninformed blabber.

Im sure you can be of great help as always ??

Edited March 9, 2019 by =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn

[CountZero]

36 minutes ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

 

Because tests show that it’s more likely the cooling in the a8. But since you are such an expert on the issue why don’t you show us the information where it states otherwise?  I mean you have been posting to great length already, so posting something that backs up your rants would actually contribute something rather than continue your uninformed blabber.

Im sure you can be of great help as always ??

 

if you look kwitek post from 18h ago , youll see that he qotes han who say all is ok with 190a8, and no bug in overheating,

so if both have same engine and coling its just logical that 190a5 must be wrong then and it should be fixed as sone posible, as how they both can be right and have differant overheat behavior in game

 

here it is again:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/43596-game-version-3011-discussion-fokker-dvii-sopwith-dolphin-tank-crewmans/?page=4&tab=comments#comment-739544

Edited March 9, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

I did read that and also some other posts from a year back at the beginning of the thread. So before you post your wisdom, I suggest you do the same.

[CountZero]

1 minute ago, =EXPEND=SchwarzeDreizehn said:

I did read that and also some other posts from a year back at the beginning of the thread. So before you post your wisdom, I suggest you do the same.

lol should i ask you everytime i wont to post something

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

1 minute ago, 77.CountZero said:

lol should i ask you everytime i wont to post something

 

No, judging by your posts you should ask yourself that

[CUJO_1970]

Never mind that “test” did not use historic settings. He just flew it in a circle with the cooling flaps fully opened. I would certainly hope the engine wouldn’t overheat in flight with the cooling gills fully opened since this was the setting they used ON THE GROUND during taxiing with little airflow to cool the engine. Wrong test method, wrong result naturally.

 

germans tested with flaps closed and partially closed WHILE CLIMBING and this is so easily seen and so simply tested in the German climb tests that have shared many times over the last 7 months in these forums and if anyone actually cared about this aircraft. Test under the conditions of reality and it overheats very quickly. And of course the large temperature variation between A5 and A8 makes no sense.

 

7 months go by trusting that it is being tested, or it is going to be fixed right down the drain.

1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

 

if 190a5 and a8 have same coling and engine how is posible that one overheat and other dont on same setings, so its either a8 thats wrong or a5, and if dev say all is ok with a8 , then they should fix a5 as its clearly coling engine to good then, its just logical ?

 

from specs for both a5 and a8, all same, so how come one overheats and other dont on same settings, they both cant be right

 

 

‘Please stop repeating incorrect information over and over - it simply shows how little you know.

 

No A8 from bodenplatte ever used the same engine as A5 - it’s been explained many times already. A8 from winter 1945 is using 801TU power plant from 801F research engine - using stronger parts intended for production 801F power plant that allowed operation at 10 minutes of 1.58 and 1.65 ata. This is only reason for new A9 designation also when using more parts from 801F research engine allowed even more power. 

 

But, issue is now of course A8 overheats in climb with partially open cooling flaps even at lower boost pressure while actual German tests shared many times on these forums show it didn’t. 

On 8/19/2018 at 7:49 PM, -=PHX=-SuperEtendard said:

Another comparison at the same settings:

A-8 vs A-5, both at the same speed, with 1.32 ata and 45% open shutters

 

‘For example...

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by CUJO_1970

[Jade_Monkey]

On 3/8/2019 at 9:54 AM, JG27_Kornezov said:

Hopefully now the projects shifts back to Bodenplatte and we have better expectations.

 

It never shifted away from Bodenplatte, please stop spreading these false rumors. Just because they showcase FC and TC during DDs and they have updates with other content it doesn't mean they stopped working on BoBP in that time period.

 

The teams working on TC and FC assets are different, just some integration work and FM work that needs to be done by the devs. 

[CountZero]

2 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

Never mind that “test” did not use historic settings. He just flew it in a circle with the cooling flaps fully opened. I would certainly hope the engine wouldn’t overheat in flight with the cooling gills fully opened since this was the setting they used ON THE GROUND during taxiing with little airflow to cool the engine. Wrong test method, wrong result naturally.

 

germans tested with flaps closed and partially closed WHILE CLIMBING and this is so easily seen and so simply tested in the German climb tests that have shared many times over the last 7 months in these forums and if anyone actually cared about this aircraft. Test under the conditions of reality and it overheats very quickly. And of course the large temperature variation between A5 and A8 makes no sense.

 

7 months go by trusting that it is being tested, or it is going to be fixed right down the drain.

 

‘Please stop repeating incorrect information over and over - it simply shows how little you know.

 

No A8 from bodenplatte ever used the same engine as A5 - it’s been explained many times already. A8 from winter 1945 is using 801TU power plant from 801F research engine - using stronger parts intended for production 801F power plant that allowed operation at 10 minutes of 1.58 and 1.65 ata. This is only reason for new A9 designation also when using more parts from 801F research engine allowed even more power. 

 

But, issue is now of course A8 overheats in climb with partially open cooling flaps even at lower boost pressure while actual German tests shared many times on these forums show it didn’t. 

 

‘For example...

 

In game it says they have same engine, so if dev tested it and say 190a8 has no bug with overheating, then problem is in 190a5, its realy simple

so as i see they did it correctly for 190a8 and im sure they will fix it for 190a5 in time as it seams from picture 190a5 is running to cool and dosent overheat as it should like 190a8 do ?

Edited March 9, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[L3Pl4K]

23 minutes ago, 77.CountZero said:

In game it says they have same engine, so if dev tested it and say 190a8 has no bug with overheating, then problem is in 190a5, its realy simple

so as i see they did it correctly for 190a8 and im sure they will fix it for 190a5 in time as it seams from picture 190a5 is running to cool and dosent overheat as it should like 190a8 do ?

<*-¦-¦-¦-¦-¦-><

[CUJO_1970]

1 hour ago, 77.CountZero said:

In game it says they have same engine, so if dev tested it and say 190a8 has no bug with overheating, then problem is in 190a5, its realy simple

so as i see they did it correctly for 190a8 and im sure they will fix it for 190a5 in time as it seams from picture 190a5 is running to cool and dosent overheat as it should like 190a8 do ?

 

A5 fighter will then be corrected to run at 1.58ata and 1.65ata for ten minutes on boost - since by your logic they have the same engine - right?

 

In reality you simply don't know what you are talking about, but continue to spam the forum with nonsense.

Edited March 9, 2019 by CUJO_1970

[Dr_Molem]

I think it's sarcasm.

 

Otherwise... well...

[DD_Arthur]

23 minutes ago, Dr_Molem said:

I think it's sarcasm.

 

You would be right.

 

@CountZero;  remember,  they don't really do irony across the pond.

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

After the 8th "sarcastic" post it has become so funny that it deserves its own thread

[JG27*Kornezov]

6 hours ago, Jade_Monkey said:

 

It never shifted away from Bodenplatte, please stop spreading these false rumors. Just because they showcase FC and TC during DDs and they have updates with other content it doesn't mean they stopped working on BoBP in that time period.

 

The teams working on TC and FC assets are different, just some integration work and FM work that needs to be done by the devs. 

I am sorry  this is how I interpreted the developers diary:

Dear friends,

"The Spring has come and in today's Dev Blog, after some delay, we're returning to our main project - Bodenplatte. This delay in the news has been caused by the fact that during the Winter all the work on this project was made at a deep level ..."

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by JG27_Kornezov

[=EXPEND=13SchwarzeHand]

The DD shifted away from Bodenplatte because they did not have any nice pictures to show, due to working on technical stuff. That’s how I interpret it.

[JG27*Kornezov]

When my clients are mailing angry I am saying the same, "I am working at a deep level."

Edited March 10, 2019 by JG27_Kornezov

[CountZero]

it seams 190A5 also neded fix and was to fast (who knew)

nice to see they fix that in latest update, now it looks more normal, red is 3.012b and blue is 3.010 top speed on same enviroment for test. ( left lines combat, right emergancy 0% rads both and trimed for best speed)

 

and 190a8 dont overheat as fast and is by 5-10kmh slower then 3010 in latest fix for its coling

Edited April 2, 2019 by 77.CountZero

[SCG_ErwinP]

Hey CountZero, can you do a graphic such this with A3, A5 and A8 (latest update)?

[CountZero]

A3 didnt change from what i can see

here is A3 (blue) compared to A5 (red) from 12b:

Spoiler

here is A8 12b (blue) compared to A5 12b (red):

Spoiler

 

[SCG_ErwinP]

Thank you!