Does IL2 model ground effect?

[montag]

Does this sim model ground effect? I have only every flown Cessna 172s in real life, but when I try to bring those into land I notice a floating type of feeling that seems to make the aircraft want to stay airborne longer and at slower speeds than if I was not near the ground. I have not noticed this effect in the game, but its hard to tell especially with WWII aircraft which fly much faster than the 172.

[EAF19_Marsh]

Not as far as I am aware.

[Algy-Lacey]

It seems to me, especially when flying the Spitfire, that there is a reluctance to settle down to land unless you are really close to stall speed. If I go too fast turning onto final then it'll sink at an expected rate but when I flare and bring the nose up it floats and sometimes leads to a stall and either a very heavy, bouncy landing or a crash.

 

I think ground effect is modelled.

[RedRider]

Feels like it to me, especially on red side. Flare high and you'll float forever...

[AndyJWest]

If it models ground effect at all, it is very subtle, and I've not seen any repeatable tests that show it. There is no obvious change of trim, or of power required, when flying very close to the surface - the easiest way to try this is over water. You shouldn't see much effect until you get down below half a wingspan above the surface. In IL-2 '46 you could certainly show 'ground effect' that way, though there seemed to be some weirdness in the way it was modelled. 

[montag]

Yeah I guess it wouldn't make sense to model it. It would eat up computing resources for only a small regime of flight that's not that important I guess, especially for a combat oriented simulator. I was just thinking about it today because I picked up Flying Circus and I thought I might notice it with one of those planes, but I did not.

Edited August 16, 2018 by montag

[II/JG17_HerrMurf]

31 minutes ago, RedRider said:

Feels like it to me, especially on red side. Flare high and you'll float forever...

I was going to vote for probably for this reason as well. If you carry too much speed over the fence you can extend the flare and hold it off for a while. Flying Luftie side only.

[Finkeren]

I think it must be modeled in some form, if you come in just slightly too fast, it can be near impossible to put the crate down for a three-pointer.

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Nah its not modeled correctly but it should be even if that means CPU ticks are taken away from other effects or things to make it work..

Its a flight sim
Flight sim without ground effect is a LOL

 

[LukeFF]

2 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Nah its not modeled correctly

 

Based on what, your opinion? 

[Cybermat47]

2 hours ago, =TBAS=Sshadow14 said:

Nah its not modeled correctly but it should be even if that means CPU ticks are taken away from other effects or things to make it work..

Its a flight sim
Flight sim without ground effect is a LOL

 

 

What makes you say it’s not modelled correctly? 

 

I’ve also noticed the floating effect the OP mentions in the planes I’ve flown IRL, but I would guess that WWII planes were heavier thanks to the weapons and armour they had, so I think it makes sense that it’s not there for the WWII aircraft in the game. I have noticed it with the Fokker Dr.I, though.

Edited August 17, 2018 by PB_Cybermat47

[Guest deleted@50488]

I should start by pointing out that along my RL ride of more than 38 yrs flying gliders ( many models already ) ground effect is something I seldom felt, and it looks almost unbelievable, but it's a fact ...

 

In the flight simulators, it's subtle to notice even if modeled. There is one notorious exception among all flightsims I've used, but it's more related to the aircraft it actually models - the Boeing 747-400 ( Aerowinx PSX )... There the ground effect exactly mimics the real thing !

 

Then, and back to IL-2, I do believe it's modeled pretty much plausibly, and I can actually use it ( although with risk ) when trying to escape really low... It's there under the correct form of less drag due to the downwash blocking by interaction with ground if you fly low and fast, bellow 1 wingspan... Please be careful with the trees !!!

 

I also notice it in the various aircraft models I use in IL-2, more in some. The case with the Spitfires in the flare is a different matter, I believe, because it's more related to the neutral pitch stability.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Von-Target

[Art-J]

If it's modelled, it's very subtle indeed. Coming here from DCS, my first landings in BoX were rough and bumpy (or downright catastrophic :D) because I've noticed that here I can't cut the throttle before flareout and settle smoothly (as I'm used to do in DCS). If I do that in BoX the plane drops like a piano, Spit being the only exception (mind you, I only bought BoK plus P-40).

 

Thus I would say it is (or should be) considered pretty important part of any combat or civilian flight simulator, unless you're a guy who's an Al-Kaida terrorist and doesn't plan to learn how to land his plane anyway (OK, OK, that was a bad joke).

 

I don't know which of these two sims is more "realistic" in this regard, though.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Art-J
misspellings

[76IAP-Black]

So far I can judge after many hours of flying, and comparing it with the old il2, and real life flying gliders, the ground effect is modeled. And I like it. 

 

The impact of the effect depends on the wing geometry and weight of the plane. Try landing the same plane with fully loaded tanks and than nearly empty 

[Herne]

BF110 E2 certainly seems to want to float on forever. last night I only touched down at the end of the runway, crossing the threshold at 200kph lol

Edited August 17, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[=TBAS=Sshadow14]

Sorry its toned down / subtle

 

[MasserME262]

On 8/16/2018 at 5:58 PM, sealgaire said:

[...]but its hard to tell especially with WWII aircraft which fly much faster than the 172.

I have read somewhere, I really dont remember where or when, that an american bomber pilot had one engine damaged during WWII, so he decided to return to his base asap. But at one moment, he realized the fuel wasn't enough and he couldn't it, so he prepared for a hard landing in the ground (or in the water, can't remember). But, when he was about to land, he noticed he couldn't easily, because of the ground effect, and that he could keep flying without needing so much throttle, and finally he reached his base safely.

Maybe someone read this story too and can backup it with a link, or maybe im just imagining things, but idk, I guess the ground effect happened to WWII too.

 

Btw, I flew the C150 IRL, but was never able to try this, I mean never flew "at tree height level" to experience the ground effect, except maybe a little before the touchdown itself. Would feel good tho

[GridiroN]

I did not think such a study level sim feature would be modelled but apparently it is?? I dunno... No real answers, just inferences that people saying it's not are wrong.

 

He'll if it is, bravo. That's impressive.

 

Putting that aside, in regards to planes floating forever, I think people underestimate how aerodynamic these planes are; even by today's standards these things are hot rods.

 

Cessna's have like 200hp and its designed like a stuka.