No Cockpit?

[Trek64Trek64]

Is there any way to fly in first person without the cockpit?  You can do this in WOFF and with some planes in Prepared 3D.

[RedKestrel]

 Not in this game, no.

[Freycinet]

And thank God for that..

[BM357_TinMan]

Unfortunately, no.

For whatever reason, the fact that not having this option alienates several types of casual users seems to be lost on some members of this community and the developers of this sim.

[Thad]

A casual simulation? That seems contradictory.  ?

 

I'm sure one can find such arcade type games to casually pass the time. ?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

1 hour ago, Freycinet said:

And thank God for that..

The old Il-2 had it, and I don’t remember any complaints. What is so scary about such an option?

 

Not that I’m really interested in it.

[-TBC-AeroAce]

God forbid we have any arcade settings.  You must [Edited] mode at all times !!!!

 

Come on man .... 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Bearcat
Language

[ruby_monkey]

3 hours ago, Thad said:

A casual simulation? That seems contradictory.  ?

 

I'm sure one can find such arcade type games to casually pass the time. ?

Those 'arcade type games' don't keep the Il-2 devs in borscht and vodka.

[sevenless]

21 minutes ago, ruby_monkey said:

Those 'arcade type games' don't keep the Il-2 devs in borscht and vodka.

 

It is Borschtsch! Now pronounce that ?

[sergio_]

Well I don't see such an "arcade and unrealistic against the simulation paradigm" very different from having external views, the HUD, tags, flight aids, etc.

 

I would only be against it in case it took big development resources from other more interesting developments, but if it is found to really have a good impact on increasing the player base, I actually see this like a cheap and good idea.

 

[Herne]

50 minutes ago, serolrom said:

Well I don't see such an "arcade and unrealistic against the simulation paradigm" very different from having external views, the HUD, tags, flight aids, etc.

 

I would only be against it in case it took big development resources from other more interesting developments, but if it is found to really have a good impact on increasing the player base, I actually see this like a cheap and good idea.

 

 

I don't think its a good idea. I'd rather IL2 products picked a target audience, and specialised the product around that audience. Also by removing the cockpit you will need to replace it with some kind of suitable HUD, but then on all future builds of IL2 this mode will also need to be tested for QA potentially causing delays between builds.

And personally it already bugs me when I see you tubers trying IL2 and saying that it's arcade, because they do not know how to turn the tech tips or hud instruments (compass) off. 

[69th_chuter]

I am on the verge of giving this game up because the aircraft compass unrealistically shows true north as 0° (AND 360° ... ?) for the game maps on the dates in question. 

 

Top that!

[Herne]

11 minutes ago, chuter said:

I am on the verge of giving this game up because the aircraft compass unrealistically shows true north as 0° (AND 360° ... ?) for the game maps on the dates in question. 

 

Top that!

 

Seems like a bit of an over reaction  out of interest how many degrees are we talking about ?

[Fritz_X]

I'd really like to see this feature again, since a hidden cockpit would give video creators the chance to easily recreate gun cam footage.

 

Even if the 'hardcore simmers' might disagree, it basically wouldn't hurt anyone. And neither it would hurt the sim itself. As long as you implement it as an option, that is.

 

This would require a server side 'Always render cockpits' option, to keep things fair and balanced in MP.

[Herne]

1 minute ago, Fritz_X said:

I'd really like to see this feature again, since a hidden cockpit would give video creators the chance to easily recreate gun cam footage.

 

Even if the 'hardcore simmers' might disagree, it basically wouldn't hurt anyone. And neither it would hurt the sim itself. As long as you implement it as an option, that is.

 

This would require a server side 'Always render cockpits' option, to keep things fair and balanced in MP.

 

You can get gun cam views from flight recordings if video editing is your thing. Seen a few on YT

[Talon_]

I think this is possible by modifying the alt-F2 external cams and sitting one on the front of the spinner. Won't work in multiplayer though.

[Fritz_X]

4 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

You can get gun cam views from flight recordings if video editing is your thing. Seen a few on YT

 

If this is true, I'll stand corrected and rest my case.

 

To be honest, I'm not a video editor myself, but I never saw mock gun cam footage from BoX so far, compared to the many videos from the classic IL-2.

 

I believe your words there, though.

[Herne]

 

Seeing is believing, although to be fair this is not a true representation. Some quality editing is also going on here to give it really authentic feel.

[Finkeren]

I would take the lack of Wonder Woman-view as a blessing. More than almost anything else it will teach you horrible habits in dogfighting. You will rely on taking shots that you can never pull off with cockpit on and you will grow acustomed to looking through the bottom of your aircraft when trying to stay on top of the fight.

[69th_chuter]

39 minutes ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Seems like a bit of an over reaction  out of interest how many degrees are we talking about ?

 

 

About +4 to +7 degrees, depending on map and date.  As far as reaction goes, I'm just trying to fit in.  Did I over do it?  I'm not too good with the interwebs.

 

 

[Herne]

Just now, chuter said:

 

 

About +4 to +7 degrees, depending on map and date.  As far as reaction goes, I'm just trying to fit in.  Did I over do it?  I'm not too good with the interwebs.

 

 

 

lol you did fine mate

[Nil]

I would love to see "no cockpit" as an option,

Would be useful in single player for some players.

 

[OrLoK]

it's not to my taste but as long as it's an option for servers, why not?

[ruby_monkey]

3 hours ago, sevenless said:

 

It is Borschtsch! Now pronounce that ?

Only if you've had too much vodka; and it's pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove.

[sevenless]

13 minutes ago, ruby_monkey said:

Only if you've had too much vodka; and it's pronounced Throatwobbler Mangrove.

 

See it is Borschtsch ?

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by sevenless

[Herne]

4 minutes ago, OrLoK said:

it's not to my taste but as long as it's an option for servers, why not?

 

Well my fear is that the more you try to cater for every taste, then there could be a danger that the overall product gets watered down. To use an English phrase I wouldn't want IL2 to become

 

"Jack of all trades, and master of none" 

 

Which all though I have used it outside of it's intended context, I think can be applied to help convey what I am trying to say.

[Bearcat]

8 hours ago, Freycinet said:

And thank God for that..

 

I never understood why this option was so offensive to people.. The way it was done in IL2 was perfectly done as a server side setting.. 

 

7 hours ago, BM357_TinMan said:

Unfortunately, no.

For whatever reason, the fact that not having this option alienates several types of casual users seems to be lost on some members of this community and the developers of this sim.

 

Exactly 

 

6 hours ago, Thad said:

A casual simulation? That seems contradictory.  ?

 

I'm sure one can find such arcade type games to casually pass the time. ?

 

Again.. why the derision.. as an option it would only serve the sim. 

 

6 hours ago, Mitthrawnuruodo said:

The old Il-2 had it, and I don’t remember any complaints. What is so scary about such an option?

 

Not that I’m really interested in it.

 

Exactly .. 

Just now, =FEW=Herne said:

 

Well my fear is that the more you try to cater for every taste, then there could be a danger that the overall product gets watered down. To use an English phrase I wouldn't want IL2 to become

 

"Jack of all trades, and master of none" 

 

Which all though I have used it outside of it's intended context, I think can be applied to help convey what I am trying to say.

 I doubt that .. The original IL2 is to this date the greatest overall flight sim ever made as far as what it does and the way it does it. There are newer ones of course that do a lot more ... better.. but pound for pound IL2 is the single greatest WWII flight sim of all time... in my opinion o course.. 

[JonRedcorn]

I don't really care what people do in their singleplayer experience, if it consists of putting a cross hair and removing the cockpit who cares. I just wouldn't really be concerned either way. We already have mouse support.

2 minutes ago, Bearcat said:

 

I never understood why this option was so offensive to people.. The way it was done in IL2 was perfectly done as a server side setting.. 

 

 

Exactly 

 

 

Again.. why the derision.. as an option it would only serve the sim. 

 

 

Exactly .. 

 I doubt that .. The original IL2 is to this date the greatest overall flight sim ever made as far as what it does and the way it does it. There are newer ones of course that do a lot more ... better.. but pound for pound IL2 is the single greatest WWII flight sim of all time... in my opinion o course.. 

Going back and playing it which I've done several times in the past week or so I can safely say Il2 BOX is so incredibly far ahead of anything 1946 has to offer that it's like playing a game from the 80's. It's simplistic flight models, lack of detail, weak sound and other things that make it truly obsolete in comparison.

[Lusekofte]

Some people in this community believes they can discriminate other opinions on behalf of the developers. I do not know how much work it is to make this feature, and no one else here does. I know for sure that like in old IL 2 this feature can be ruled out by server owners if need be. I do not mind such a feature , it will make a good cinematic gun cam film . And it can make it easier to train deflection shooting. 

This is a simulator that intend to get new simmers in, I find it odd that some say it is not. It is arcades on easy settings as is. This will not make it more so

[unreasonable]

1 hour ago, Talon_ said:

I think this is possible by modifying the alt-F2 external cams and sitting one on the front of the spinner. Won't work in multiplayer though.

 

Exactly - fairly easily done with a little text editing, so I am not sure why it is not there as a default gun-camera view in the list of external views.  I think whether it will work or not is dictated by whether your (or server) difficulty settings "Allow Spectators", which is the box that allows all external views.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, LuseKofte said:

Some people in this community believes they can discriminate other opinions on behalf of the developers. I do not know how much work it is to make this feature, and no one else here does. I know for sure that like in old IL 2 this feature can be ruled out by server owners if need be. I do not mind such a feature , it will make a good cinematic gun cam film . And it can make it easier to train deflection shooting. 

This is a simulator that intend to get new simmers in, I find it odd that some say it is not. It is arcades on easy settings as is. This will not make it more so

 

I agree with your comments except that I know exactly how long it takes, since it took me about ten minutes to set it up for one plane: then it is mostly copy pasting to the other plane's text files and checking that you had put the camera far enough forwards in each case. Maybe a couple of hours to check all the planes in BoX. No programming required at all.

Edited August 13, 2018 by unreasonable

[Leon_Portier]

Hm, I managed to break the alt-F2 cams every time so far.

 

I wouldn´t mind to have the invisible cockpit option at all, but I also doubt I would use it.

[unreasonable]

I have only thought about using it as a special effect for a movie, and it does work to get the gun camera shot, although dead centre might not be the best for that as cameras were usually in wing roots IIRC. 

 

You can try this thread for detailed instructions in how to change the file.  

One thing I get when doing this is that the cameras work perfectly in game, but for some reason on exiting the game I get the black screen and config.log error needing task manager to shut down. No idea why.

 

 

[BM357_TinMan]

9 hours ago, Thad said:

A casual simulation? That seems contradictory.  ?

 

I'm sure one can find such arcade type games to casually pass the time. ?

 

First, I said casual players.  Second, there are always trade offs made given certain considerations (we do not have the option to do a manual start up procedure and not all systems are modeled with a degree of fidelity that is possible)

Second, sure, "one could find such arcade type games" elsewhere but, I'm perplexed as to why an option that would not be forced upon those that didn't want it and could only serve to bring in more players and thus, more money for development and project longevity would be held in such derision.

This reaction seems to be a bit short sighted and not a little snobbish

[SCG_Space_Ghost]

On 8/13/2018 at 11:12 AM, LuseKofte said:

Some people in this community believes they can discriminate other opinions on behalf of the developers. I do not know how much work it is to make this feature, and no one else here does. I know for sure that like in old IL 2 this feature can be ruled out by server owners if need be. I do not mind such a feature , it will make a good cinematic gun cam film . And it can make it easier to train deflection shooting. 

This is a simulator that intend to get new simmers in, I find it odd that some say it is not. It is arcades on easy settings as is. This will not make it more so

 

Oh knock it off with this tired, old nonsense.

 

Disagreeing with or explicitly not supporting a feature, the implementation thereof, or otherwise is not discrimination.  Nobody owes you a novel on why they don't support something and nobody owes you meeting in the middle. Nobody owes you any form of agreement, compromise or otherwise.

 

Discrimination? Really? [edited] is wrong with some of you people? It's a [EDIT] game.

Edited August 17, 2018 by SYN_Haashashin
I do not care, context or not. Do not touch mod edition.

[Herne]

1 hour ago, BM357_TinMan said:

 

First, I said casual players.  Second, there are always trade offs made given certain considerations (we do not have the option to do a manual start up procedure and not all systems are modeled with a degree of fidelity that is possible)

Second, sure, "one could find such arcade type games" elsewhere but, I'm perplexed as to why an option that would not be forced upon those that didn't want it and could only serve to bring in more players and thus, more money for development and project longevity would be held in such derision.

This reaction seems to be a bit short sighted and not a little snobbish

 

The  discussion feels bizarre to me, because surely the attraction of a flight simulator, is to do all that they possibly can to try and convince you, that you are flying a plane ? In my mind this kind of view would be a step too far in the direction of game rather than sim. But this is of course just my opinion, and I can see that there seem to be quite a few people out there that would really like to see it.

One area where I think such a view could have a place, would be for custom sim pits, home made cockpits with a projector system for outside views kind of thing, like with the icarus 180. Actually that could be really cool, especially if you could get analogue cockpit instruments to read actually what is going on in IL2 ?

 

Something along the lines of this :-
 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by =FEW=Herne

[OrLoK]

I wouldn't worry too much about the dreaded "casualisation" of the game, this will never be WoT.

 

However, i've always been of the firm standpoint (in any game) that user choice is paramount even if it's something that we may not personally want.

 

For example I don't use unlimited ammo, but i can see why folk would want to. I don't see IL2 being more arcade because of that option.

 

As long as the server browser can enable us to find servers we like, im not too fussed

[dburne]

Pretty sure we have this same discussion like oh every couple of years or so...

[Tompa_73]

Rather would have a clickable cockpit IF we are just discussing more options to this sim.

It would be going the right way instead of nerfing it even more.

 

[sergio_]

We are assuming the OP suggestion makes BOX more arcade, and I don't agree.

 

The moment you see this external view like an aid that makes things easier and see it like an advantage, you are talking about BOX in terms of a game, not a sim.

 

Is X-Plane or FSX any less of a simulator having this option? Of course not. You simulate what you want, and use aids where you want to achieve the kind of simulation you prefer, maybe for testing (a common simming scenario), learning, whatever.

 

If anyone is afraid of BOX being less of a simulation just for having options, I honestly don't think you are really thinking of BOX as a simulation really, but as an arcade game.

 

'Arcade' and 'easy/simple' are not synonyms, and serious simulation is never decreased by having options.

Edited August 13, 2018 by serolrom
Correcting errors on mobile device...

[Guest deleted@134347]

Isn't there already a camera view that allows you to 'pin' yourself to the tail and fly from there? What exactly is a "no cockpit" view in question?  Or more like pin yourself to the nose of the aircraft? You can sort of do it via the gun camera ...

 

I mean I can how this can be used if it's the player is really novice and tries to understand how to play the game. Start from the arcade mode and then work it down to the sim. Aka use the external view, unlimited ammo (for aiming training). But building the game around these options.. that'll kind of defeat the purpose.

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by moosya