Advice for Beginner

[SeaQuark]

Hi there,

 

I'm completely new to the IL-2 series, and to flight simulators in general. Thinking of buying my first joystick and giving it a whirl.

 

Would you folks recommend just jumping into this latest Stalingrad version, or should I go with Cliffs of Dover? Or will this all be overwhelming, and is there a lighter game I should try first to familiarize myself with the genre?

 

Also, this is the stick I was thinking of getting-- is this a good one? Would love to have something that seems visually suited to WW2 dogfights, as I'm not interested in modern jet fighters and the like.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-Aviator-Throttle-Joystick-PS33/dp/B000I62PEK

 

Thanks!

[Emgy]

If you are new to flightsims, you shouldn't start with a 90$ early access game.

Use a cheaper (or free, like Rise of Flight demo) game to see if you like propeller sims. Rise of Flight demo is easy to setup and play quickly.

Aviator is ok, get a new one, not used.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Calvamos

[Mewt]

The below is my opinion only - I'm sure others will disagree.

 

I would jump right in with BoS. Just learn as you go. It's a great community here so learning the ropes would be easy enough.

 

Personally I would give Cliffs of Dover a miss. I found CLoD just awkward - there was too much of a barrier to entry when I tried it. Terrible menus, zero single player experience, community patches required, 3rd party lobby etc. I didn't get on with it but others do praise it.

 

If you wanted to fly other games before/as well as BoS I would recommend:

 

-Rise Of Flight-

This is the BoS developers previous game focussing on WW1 theatre. Its free to play and will give you an idea of how things will probably pan out for BoS. I didn't play it a whole lot because WW1 isn't of that much interest to me.

 

-War Thunder-

Simulator Mode only (the other modes are arcade style affairs). War Thunder simulator mode is much a more 'lightweight' sim than BoS but its still simulator enough to get you understanding basic concepts and controls. Its also free to play and can be great fun if you fly with a like minded squadron. It's also WW2 and a celebration of aircraft - there are like 200 planes.

 

As for joysticks - I'm not familiar with that one but two that get recommended time and time again are the Thrustmaster T.16000 and the Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

 

Happy hunting!

[DD_bongodriver]

My advice is to not ask for advice in flight sim forums, you will simply get drowned in conflicting oppinions on which sim is best etc, take every bit of advice here with a pinch, weigh up your own budget and decide what you can afford, to be honest for all the arguments they are all the same or at least all of them deserve a place on the hard drive if the hobby really catches your attention.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

As for hardware, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro will get you started, most likely that Saitek will too, and many do like Thrustmaster T.16000M. About testing Rise of Flight to see if you like prop sims, well, you can do that. The thing is, I don't like it all and what I have seen about BoS so far, I really, really like. So getting RoF to see if you are going to like BoS might not work, then again it might, it depends on you.

My opinion of software is that it kinda depends on your budget. If you feel like you can throw in 95$ even if there is possibility that you find out that you don't like flight sims after all, then get BoS. If on the other hand you don't want to take that chance, then there is Cliffs of Dover, it sells on something like 9$ on steam, so it's not a big loss. And then there is IL-2:1946 of course that you can try. Neither of these are not the same as BoS, but I guess they will give you an idea if WWII flight sims are something you want to get deeper into.

[dburne]

Welcome to the community SeaQuark!

My thoughts:

 

So firstly, Cliffs of Dover with the Team Fusion Mod is an absolutely incredible WWII sim. To me currently, it is the ultimate. However - it is not a plug and play sim, it can have quite a curve in just getting it installed and set up to run good on one's system, then the mods installed in order as well.

I am not sure I would really suggest you get your feet wet in combat flight sims with that one to start with, I think in your case since you are new to the whole flight simming thing something more plug and play ( ie easy to setup and get flying) will keep the frustration level pretty low.

 

Really the easiest and cheapest way, as others have suggested, is download and install the Rise of Flight Free to Play demo. You get a couple of decent planes, all the other planes are in there but AI controlled. No time limitation, you can fly those two planes all day long and check it out. The Training Campaign in ROF is actually pretty decent as well.

 

If you are comfortable with that and seem to enjoy it, then you might consider going ahead with this sim - BOS. It is in early stages of development, does not have a bad learning curve, and if your system runs ROF decent then you know it should run BOS decent. If the 90 bucks is too steep for you, then stay with ROF for a while longer , I believe when BOS is released they will be offering a standard version which will be cheaper.

 

If and when you find yourself really liking combat flight sims, then I do highly suggest you give Cliffs of Dover a try at some point. Do a lot of reading up on it over on the ATAG forums, as you will want to make sure and install the TF mods for it. You can pick up Cliffs pretty cheap these days, and the TF modded version makes it a fantastic sim. Plus they are still working on improving it as well, with some exciting things on the horizon.

 

Joystick - Any of the above, you are going to want at least a  joystick with twist grip so you can have rudder control with the twist, or joystick setup with rudder pedals.

The " big three" in the joystick world, are CH Products, Saitek, and Thrustmaster. Each one I believe offers some of the  more entry level setups, along with higher end setups.

 

Lastly, you did not mention your PC specs, if you list them out you can also get some feedback on how well it should perform with some of these flight sims.

 

Good luck, keep us posted on your choices and how you get along!

[Quax]

All WW2 pilots did learn flying on biplanes (most german aces did start with gliders before going to Luftwaffe flightschools). They have been very similar to the WW1 planes. If you learn flying with Rise of Flight, you do it like them. RoF has a very good and realistic FM. You don´t get used to nonsense. It is hard to "unlearn" wrong habits. 

[Fifi]

SeaQuark,

Just follow your likings and favourit war theatre!

 

Best WW2 simulator actually remains COD.

But you'll need to buy it around 8/9 Euros and patch it with latest Team Fusion to plenty enjoy it. Not that many planes to fly, Channel theater.

Old IL2 1946 can be fun too, for the same cost and need to be patched too. Plenty planes to fly, plenty different war theaters.

Those can be good training for a BOS access.

Beside, there is the excellent ROF wich is free to play (with 2 planes) and really worth the try. But WW1 planes and theater.

DCS world is excellent also, but maybe not for a flight sim newbee. And it is focusing on modern area (for the moment).

 

If you can, go for a midrange stick and a set of pedals (really needed with ROF)

 

Otherwise, BOS isn't finished, and could be frustrating for a newbee IMO.

If you like white desert and challenge, go for it!

[Sandhill]

Another vote for RoF...free is good, and the planes are simpler (no flaps, no gear etc) and things happen relatively slowly, yet is still endlessly challenging.

[DeafBee]

Rise of Flight has been my favorite flight sim for years. I suggest getting the free demo version and try it out. If you like ROF then go for BOS.

 

You don't need pedal but a good twist stick for rudder control. I acctually flew better with twist stick than pedals, but its more realistic with pedals and the feeling is better.

[II./JG27_Rich]

If you want to start with IL-2 I would get IL-2 1946. Very cheap but very good. Graphics are dated but still not too bad. I would start with a Zero or a Ki-43 for a new guy. This isn't me by the way. I never fly allied aeroplanes

 

 

Edited January 26, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[II./JG27_Rich]

And IL-2 1946 in the Winter

 

[Freycinet]

CoD is cheap, 10 euros online download, and you can get lots of friendly advice at the ATAG forums. You won't be able to take off and kill the enemy right from the start, but that's the fun of it! - The first kill in any hi-fidelity combat flight sim (BoS, CoD, RoF) is a 100 times more rewarding than in flite sim lite games like War Thunder.

[II./JG27_Rich]

COD is great especially  with the team fusion patches

[kestrel79]

If you are new to flight sims, I'd go with a free one first to try it out. See if you like it. Rise of Flight and Warthunder are great for starters.

[Wolger]

I started out with War Thunder, when its full real battle modes and cockpit only view forced me to buy a proper stick and TrackIR,

 

For people who are into WW2 air combat, how could you not like IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover..

 

Just a glimpse of the awesomeness, I stayed like 20 minutes after I died to witness the awesomeness...

 

Edited January 26, 2014 by Wolger

[Quax]

For people who are into WW2 air combat, how could you not like IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover..

 

For some the FM is more important than the eye candy 

[TheBlackPenguin]

Another vote for ROF, you can download the free demo client as it comes with 2 free planes and is otherwise fully featured. From there feel free to try Cliffs of Dover and patch it up, BOS (we're in early Alpha) etc.

[FuriousMeow]

For some the FM is more important than the eye candy 

 

Not just the FM, but ground handling as well.

[Fifi]

For some the FM is more important than the eye candy 

 

Hear hear devs 

[DD_bongodriver]

For some the FM is more important than the eye candy 

 

Not just the FM, but ground handling as well.

 

Exactly why CoD was recommended.

[FuriousMeow]

CloD was recommended for it's ground handling? And which FM? The non-hacked one, or the hacked one?

Edited January 27, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[Tektolnes]

CloD with TF4.0 has a good FM with further improvements on the way. Ground handling is poor though this is going to be somewhat addressed in the next patch. If somebody wants somewhere to get in some dogfighting practice against some good opponents before BOS it's hard to go wrong with CloD - especially as it only costs €10.

[DD_fruitbat]

And the haters are about to get another thread locked shortly.

 

Playground stuff.

[FuriousMeow]

It is playground stuff when it can't be honestly called what it is. It's not hating, it's clearly stating the actual state of the product. You like it, fine - enjoy it - but it's a hacked endevour, and the gound handling is a copy/paste from the original Il-2 series. So it's about as accurate as a R/C model taking off of ice.

 

Any other software that was modified without source code access - hack. For some reason games get a pass and instead of hacked, it's a "mod."

Edited January 27, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[t4trouble]

Which flight sim doesn't have a FM issue ?

[DD_bongodriver]

Round and round....the same old same old

 

http://youtu.be/BXr4JD-zAuc

Edited January 27, 2014 by DD_bongodriver

[76SQN-FatherTed]

The OP stated he was interested in WW2, so RoF is out the window.  I love it as a game, but it's a different experience to a WW2 sim.  For my money I'd say go with IL2 1946.  It's a bit out of date, but you get a huge number of planes and theatres compared to more modern sims.  It's also more simple than CloD or DCS in terms of the amount of controls needed.  No sim worth its salt is going to be easy for the first-time player, but I would say that CloD and DCS are further up the learning curve than IL2 1946.  And it only costs a fiver or something.  I've not mentioned BoS because I wouldn't advise anyone to shell out £60 on a game when they're not even sure if they'll like the genre.

 

As to hardware, well, any decent stick with a twisty-rudder, throttle-slider and hat-switch (for looking around) will give you a reasonable idea of whether or not you're going to enjoy combat flightsims.  If you do go down that route and then find that you want to persevere, then I would look into TIR (or cheap emulations), HOTAS and rudder pedals - in that order.

[FlatSpinMan]

Some people missing the point here.

 

OP - welcome. There's some good ideas above. We hope you find something that suits your interest and budget.

Further to the recommendations above, I'd just add that:

Rise of Flight is free and good, but those WW1 planes are really underpowered, so it'll be hard to do some if the things a WW2 bird could do. Also, they are sloooow.

Personally I like it and think it would be a good way to familiarize yourself with the basics of controlling a plane.

Another good point is that it is ready to play without patching or modding.

 

CloD and IL246 both need it. Of course it's worth doing, but it may be off-putting for a start.

46's difficulty level is pretty good for a beginner, I think.

 

Battle of Stalingrad is also nicely set up for quick action. The problem though is that we're still playing the Alpha, so access is time-limited.

 

Have fun, ask questions - there's never any shortage of opinions and ideas here!

[FuriousMeow]

Round and round....the same old same old

 

http://youtu.be/BXr4JD-zAuc

 

Can you replicate that yourself?

[FlatSpinMan]

Off topic.

[II./JG27_Rich]

Cliffs of Dover. I the second video you can see how pretty COD actually is IL-2 1946, IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs Of Dover, IL-2 Sturmovik Battle Of Stalingrad..They are all excellent if you want a real combat flight sim not an arccade type experience.

 

Edited January 27, 2014 by II./JG27_Rich

[DD_bongodriver]

Can you replicate that yourself?

 

 

Yes, in both directions, it sit there all day doing it.

Amazing how insightful this was. What a premonition.

 

I know, it's a gift, I saw it all in a yellow dream.

[Rama]

Not only SeaQuark got plenty of advices... but also a good show of simulation forum comedia del Arte

I think he had enough. Don't do too much, he could change his mind and escape the place.

Combat flight simulation needs new blood.

 

SeaQuark: you're wellcome. whatever you choose to start (and I don't think it makes much a difference), I'll hope it hook you into the genre.

[Crow]

Seaquark, the "IL-2 series" is unfortunately ill-named. The now three entries into the "series" are extremely different in scope and execution and have had significantly different people leading the development. Pick the one you think you'll like the most.

 

If you want a strong single-player experience, want to be able to choose lots of different aircraft/scenarios, and want to have lots of user created content, IL-2: 1946 is the best currently. If you want a flight sim built to modern standards with all the bells and whistles and (what hopefully will be) a strong multiplayer community, I would go with IL-2: BoS. I personally did not like ClOD for a variety of reasons, but some do.

[FuriousMeow]

Yes, in both directions, it sit there all day doing it.

 

I can't. When I begin rotation, my outside wheel digs in and my wing clips the ground driving the prop into the ground.

 

So what special steps are required? I've done it with and without wheel brakes, with and without flaps, with and without aileron input and always the same result - wing outside the rotation digs in, catches and forces the nose into the ground.

 

So what special measures are you taking to ensure this occurs?

[DD_bongodriver]

I can't. When I begin rotation, my outside wheel digs in and my wing clips the ground driving the prop into the ground.

 

So what special steps are required? I've done it with and without wheel brakes, with and without flaps, with and without aileron input and always the same result - wing outside the rotation digs in, catches and forces the nose into the ground.

 

So what special measures are you taking to ensure this occurs?

 

None.

[FuriousMeow]

So I'm doing the same exact things, and after a rotation and a half to two, and the nose in the snow. And you've done the exact same thing, but perpetually rotated in a circle?

Edited January 27, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[DD_bongodriver]

yes

[FuriousMeow]

Okay. You potentially have easy mode on then.

Edited January 27, 2014 by FuriousMeow