Force feedback joystick build

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Ok without hijacking any more threads thought I start a topic on building an FFB joystick. Many of us love our FFB joysticks but we can't seem to find any new sticks at a reasonable price and the old ones don't have enough force feedback, Plus they are getting old and limited.  We can probably tamper with any older FFB stick and get more out of them but at what cost if it works at all. 

I have searched the web for parts for a FFB stick and so far found: http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System-Purchase.php      http://simprojects.nl/diy_force_feedback_interfacing.htm  

The last one has plans for building the control board if your good at electronics. 

But I also have noticed that most of the controls are basically motor driver boards, I'm wondering how much different are they compared to say cnc drivers like you get in 3D printers and mills and such, If we can use those then it would be so much cheaper. You can get a whole system with motors power supply and board for a few hundred bucks. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Input welcome.

I'll be looking for more info when I can. And start to come up with some plans we can follow and add, want to try and keep the price and ease of build down for all us to follow. 

[HiIIBiIIy]

Step into the space age of controllers https://vs4.irisdynamics.com/magnetic-force-feedback-joysticks/ 

 

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

31 minutes ago, HiIIBiIIy said:

Step into the space age of controllers https://vs4.irisdynamics.com/magnetic-force-feedback-joysticks/ 

 

Oh is that the one you're buying me, very nice. can't believe you're mortgaging the house to get me that. Thanks, Billy. 

[J2_Bidu]

What is the price of that thing?! Looks interesting. I wonder if the games would take advantage of its features though...

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

No price on the site so what does that tell you!

[SeaW0lf]

49 minutes ago, Bidu said:

What is the price of that thing?! Looks interesting. I wonder if the games would take advantage of its features though...

 

The yoke system (seems to be more complex) costs $2.600. But I think those are made for the professional market (flight schools and such).

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, Plank said:

Oooh and ahhh...

 

Off the shelf RC car/plane ESC ( single phase ( two wire)) programmed to have FWD and REV...

 

But, to go to that length of tinkering I would have to be certain that the FFB signals from the sim are actually good...

 

What kind of things does FC claim to simulate in FFB and what is the general consensus quality wise?

 

Salute!

 

Plank.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, I use the MS FFB stick and to me, it seems to respond better than ROF.  I'm wondering IF, OK might be a long shot, but I have a 3 axis stepper driver and motors, wondering if I hook them up just to see if they work as a FFB driver. But how would I do this, what software would I use. Any ideas? Vjoy maybe, think I read somewhere they have a program for FFB.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

4 hours ago, HiIIBiIIy said:

Step into the space age of controllers https://vs4.irisdynamics.com/magnetic-force-feedback-joysticks/ 

 

That company failed to manufacture those products. Besides, their yokes were inferior to competing products that you can actually buy right now at similar prices.

 

4 hours ago, Tawhiao said:

But I also have noticed that most of the controls are basically motor driver boards, I'm wondering how much different are they compared to say cnc drivers like you get in 3D printers and mills and such, If we can use those then it would be so much cheaper. You can get a whole system with motors power supply and board for a few hundred bucks. Does anyone have any ideas about this? Input welcome.

They are similar. As with many things, the detail are the tricky part. It's relatively easy to build a force feedback system. However, it's much more difficult to get something that works well enough for pleasant day-to-day use. 

 

Things like gear ratios, motor types, and controller programming all affect the strength, responsiveness, and precision of a stick. It usually takes several iterations to get it right. Unfortunately, that's where most people get bogged down as the costs add up.

 

The mechanical design for a stick is quite complicated (even without force feedback). Projects like this are easier if you start with something simple. A steering wheel with 1DOF could demonstrate the effectiveness of your solution without the complexity of a stick.

[Sokol1]

Topic about the mater in DCS forum - but in almost two years goes nowhere.

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=172964

[Dutch2]

Lets hope one day: http://www.paccus.com/paccus-hawk 

it will be released. 

[BP_Lizard]

19 hours ago, Tawhiao said:

No price on the site so what does that tell you!

 

If we have to ask, we can’t afford it? ?

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

Ok, so my goal is: Build a reasonably priced FFB stick, Make it simple enough we can all build, don't go overboard with buttons and what have you, just a trigger on the stick. no twist stick at first anyway. Use easy to get parts off eBay or similar places. 

Now I have an old cyborg 3d stick ill hack for parts like pots sensors or whatever it has. use my steppers and driver for the FFB for now just to see what I get. I can build a box to place all the parts in and have some pulleys and belts I can use to drive with. direct drive will not work on a 2 axis stick, 

Where I'm stumped right now is the software part.  What do I do?

1 hour ago, Dutch2 said:

Lets hope one day: http://www.paccus.com/paccus-hawk 

it will be released. 

I don't think that went any were from what I heard, too expensive. I think that might be the problem, guys want to build the best there is but people can't afford what they want. No one wants to build a replacement for the MS FFB. That's what we need, a bit stronger but not something you can put in a space shuttle. A basic stick with FFB. everything else can be added extra later.  Like Kluggerman had mentioned, you want extra buttons just use an extra stick or buy extra gear.

[RedRider]

I have read that there isnt any real-time data export available in il2. Without an open source of information, you are going to have to emulate a device such as microsoft FFB2 or whatever il2 recognizes as a valid FFB device. That's going to be tricky as you'll need to play with Microsoft's FFB drivers. If there was an open source emulator (I haven't looked), then your task would be relatively easy.

 

I've considered a project like yours, adding FFB externally to the warthog stick. Seems simple enough, but I think I read that they are dropping FFB support in the future. I think DCS is ahead in this respect, though our developer certainly has to choose where to spend limited resources. I'm happy with where they've chosen to put their efforts, but I do agree that FFB really adds to the immersion in games. This is especially true in racing. But how many of us would actually build our own hardware to take advantage of the capability? Probably not enough to justify the effort enabling the export, sadly.

Edited August 15, 2018 by RedRider

[SeaW0lf]

2 hours ago, RedRider said:

Seems simple enough, but I think I read that they are dropping FFB support in the future. 

 

Who is dropping support?

[RedRider]

7 hours ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

Who is dropping support?

I did a quick search and couldn't find the post I thought I remembered that stated the above. Please disregard!

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

On 8/14/2018 at 7:26 PM, RedRider said:

I have read that there isnt any real-time data export available in il2. Without an open source of information, you are going to have to emulate a device such as microsoft FFB2 or whatever il2 recognizes as a valid FFB device. That's going to be tricky as you'll need to play with Microsoft's FFB drivers. If there was an open source emulator (I haven't looked), then your task would be relatively easy.

 

I've considered a project like yours, adding FFB externally to the warthog stick. Seems simple enough, but I think I read that they are dropping FFB support in the future. I think DCS is ahead in this respect, though our developer certainly has to choose where to spend limited resources. I'm happy with where they've chosen to put their efforts, but I do agree that FFB really adds to the immersion in games. This is especially true in racing. But how many of us would actually build our own hardware to take advantage of the capability? Probably not enough to justify the effort enabling the export, sadly.

https://code.google.com/archive/p/adapt-ffb-joy/ someone is working on a FFB driver software plus I have a programmer that will have a go with this, add what needs to be done.

The reason they might drop FFB is that no one is building a stick for a good price. I have been doing my search and came up with some good prices to get started on driver boards and DC motors. If someone produces a FFB stick then they may keep things going, Once one person starts the Chinese will build them at half the price. All the parts so far come to around 200 bucks. And that would be for a better FFB stick than MS FFB. Meaning larger motors and more FFB. My goal is to have a stick body you can place under your chair, so there won't be many buttons on the handle, will have to have a separate unit for throttle and other controls.   

[RedRider]

3 minutes ago, Tawhiao said:

https://code.google.com/archive/p/adapt-ffb-joy/ someone is working on a FFB driver software plus I have a programmer that will have a go with this, add what needs to be done.

The reason they might drop FFB is that no one is building a stick for a good price. I have been doing my search and came up with some good prices to get started on driver boards and DC motors. If someone produces a FFB stick then they may keep things going, Once one person starts the Chinese will build them at half the price. All the parts so far come to around 200 bucks. And that would be for a better FFB stick than MS FFB. Meaning larger motors and more FFB. My goal is to have a stick body you can place under your chair, so there won't be many buttons on the handle, will have to have a separate unit for throttle and other controls.   

 

Buttons aren't an issue. Just mod the stick you prefer externally using an extension.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, RedRider said:

 

Buttons aren't an issue. Just mod the stick you prefer externally using an extension.

That's what I was thinking, hell the ms ffb has very limited buttons.

[SCG_OpticFlow]

On 8/17/2018 at 1:02 AM, Tawhiao said:

https://code.google.com/archive/p/adapt-ffb-joy/ someone is working on a FFB driver software plus I have a programmer that will have a go with this, add what needs to be done.

The reason they might drop FFB is that no one is building a stick for a good price. I have been doing my search and came up with some good prices to get started on driver boards and DC motors. If someone produces a FFB stick then they may keep things going, Once one person starts the Chinese will build them at half the price. All the parts so far come to around 200 bucks. And that would be for a better FFB stick than MS FFB. Meaning larger motors and more FFB. My goal is to have a stick body you can place under your chair, so there won't be many buttons on the handle, will have to have a separate unit for throttle and other controls.    

 

Why do you need larger motors than the Microsoft one?

[Sokol1]

On 8/16/2018 at 7:02 PM, Tawhiao said:

https://code.google.com/archive/p/adapt-ffb-joy/ someone is working on a FFB driver software plus I have a programmer that will have a go with this, add what needs to be done.

 

Adapt-ffb-joy (old) project - based on ancient 3DVert USB adapter for Sidewinder 3DPRO, is just for use Microsoft Sidewinder PRO gameport in USB, not for "beef" FFB effects.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by Sokol1