Need help. Which joystick is best for Flying Circus?

[michaelws]

It has been a long time since I did a flight sim.  Can anyone recommend a decent joystick to get for the biplanes?  Is a separate rudder necessary also or can a joystick offer rudder control?

 

Thanks

[Gamington]

Im sure people will disagree but other than my logitech pro, im using a saitek logitech x56 and Ive been loving it for about 6 months it just needs to be recallibrated once in a while and it has more than enough buttons.

[Thad]

Salutations,

 

It depends on how much one wants to spend.

 

Two come to mind a reasonable cost. Around 40$.  Logitech Extreme 3D Pro and the Thrustmaster T16000m joystick. They both have the twist function that can be used as a rudder.

 

I slightly prefer the Logitechs styling over the Thrustmasters but the T16000m has better and more durable internal sensors... so it would get my nod in this price range. 

[michaelws]

Thanks Thad and Gamington.  Luckily I don't have to go cheap or modest.  So I would like to get something decent.  I am left-handed if that too makes a difference.

[sevenless]

Hi,

 

I´m using a Logitech Cordless Freedom 2.4 wireless stick. It basically is a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro using bluetooth technology. I guess I have this stick since 2005ish now and it never let me down. Don´t know if you still find it.

 

edit: Saw you mentioned you´re left handed...unfortunately both Logitech sticks are designed for right handed persons, sorry.

Edited July 31, 2018 by sevenless

[Thad]

Interestingly, the T16000m can be set up for left handed users. ?

 

[michaelws]

Yes I just checked that out.  Thanks Thad

[ShamrockOneFive]

Joysticks is a tough one I think. There's a lot of individual preference (and budget) to consider. I prefer a twist stick because of my setup at home so I'm a bit limited to twist options but there are some good ones out there.

 

If you can get one (and supply does seem to be limited), VKB's Gladiator is a very good stick which I personally have paired with an old Saitek X-52 HOTAS (though I really want to upgrade that). Thurstmaster T16000m has a very good reputation. There's also VIRPIL who are starting to make a range of sticks and are just starting to ship their Constellation Delta (which has twist functionality) grip with their WarBRD base.

 

It's gotten a bit interesting in recent times. You can still buy a complete stick or companies like VIRPIL and VKB let you potentially buy a base and a grip separately so you can mix and match for what you want.

[Macross]

Vkb dont yet have left hand grip

Virpil have mongoose t-50 allso left handed, but its modern stick, so if can bear modern stick when flying ww1-ww2 planes, its fine ( dont have twist though ).

Constellation delta is usable either left or right hand, its made for space sims, so got just 4way switches. Have twist. Should come in stock soon.

But for no money problem, custom stick is one option.

 

And using pedals is allways more fun than twist vkb t-rudder mk4 is good choise. For high end, slaw or crosswinds.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Macross

[ruby_monkey]

Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2. And while you can use the joystick for rudder control, you'll find that rudder pedals are a real benefit to accurate flying.

[Crockett]

Left hand throws a wrench into it for me because I'm right handed -- but if you're not limited on expense, I wouldn't fly without rudder pedals as they add so much to the realistic experience!

[Boneboys]

I've the T.16000M FCS Flight Pack which has everything you need, outadabox.

Costs about 200€ (or whatever), very good product, recommended.

[eRoN]

As someone who has gone through most brands searching for decent gear, don't listen to anyone who suggests saitek, they are a pile of cheap wank, same with CH products. As others have said, thrustmaster t16000 is the best budget option and a very fine stick (great rudder pedals too), and VKB and Virpil (i prefer VKB myself due to it being desk-based) for quality.

[Zooropa_Fly]

Cheap - TM1600

Quality - VKB or VIRPIL.

Stay away from... Warthogs !

 

S!

[SeaW0lf]

And don't forget TrackIR (since you are not on a budget), unless you are flying VR.

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

For WW1 one aeroplanes (FC)

 

old but great - Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2 (it's great for feeling the air pressure around controls surfaces and it will help you judge aeroplane energy states better than any spring/mechanical based joystick. Plus you don't have to use pitch axies curves like in spring based joystick - because of roraty engine aeroplanes tendecy to nose up on full throttle and different distance of control column travel - Force Feedback will move joystick center in the right place which can't be done with spring based joysticks or other mechanical mount.

BTW for spring based joystick pitch curves can be adjust by proper software.

 

new  Virpil  VPC MONGOOST

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by 307_Tomcat

[Macross]

5 hours ago, eRoN said:

As someone who has gone through most brands searching for decent gear, don't listen to anyone who suggests saitek, they are a pile of cheap wank, same with CH products. As others have said, thrustmaster t16000 is the best budget option and a very fine stick (great rudder pedals too), and VKB and Virpil (i prefer VKB myself due to it being desk-based) for quality.

Actually ch products is great, yes, they look exactly same than 20yr ago, but allso those 20yr old ch hotases still work!

Edited August 1, 2018 by Macross

[JG4_Deciman]

I started playing with a cheap hotas system,
then switched to my FFB2 (self changed to usb connection)
and now I'm using a Logitech G940.

And right now I'm neither going to play witout pedals any more
and I really don't want to miss my force feedback

 

Deci

[Thad]

I didn't realize anyone was still making a FFB joysticks. If so who are and where can I read about it?

[1PL-Husar-1Esk]

7 hours ago, eRoN said:

As someone who has gone through most brands searching for decent gear, don't listen to anyone who suggests saitek, they are a pile of cheap wank, same with CH products. As others have said, thrustmaster t16000 is the best budget option and a very fine stick (great rudder pedals too), and VKB and Virpil (i prefer VKB myself due to it being desk-based) for quality.

 

I heard good opinion about CH Fighterstick.

[Ceowulf]

I’ve got a Virpil Mongoos T50 on a long extension and it’s amazing.  (Comes in left as mentioned above.)   

 

For me “modern” means comfortable with lots of buttons.  

 

One major downside - I now live on the street from what it did to my finances.  

 

Ceowulf<><   

[JG4_Deciman]

2 hours ago, Thad said:

I didn't realize anyone was still making a FFB joysticks. If so who are and where can I read about it?

The FFB2 is about 20 years old and the G940 about 10 years.
But in my eyes both are the best sticks ever made for flying...

 

Deci

[michaelws]

Many thanks to this community.  I have more food for thought thanks to all of your suggestions.  I am now looking up all of them trying to come to a decision.  Thank you all again.

[=IRFC=NakedSquirrel]

21 hours ago, Macross said:

Vkb dont yet have left hand grip

Virpil have mongoose t-50 allso left handed, but its modern stick, so if can bear modern stick when flying ww1-ww2 planes, its fine ( dont have twist though ).

Constellation delta is usable either left or right hand, its made for space sims, so got just 4way switches. Have twist. Should come in stock soon.

But for no money problem, custom stick is one option.

 

And using pedals is allways more fun than twist vkb t-rudder mk4 is good choise. For high end, slaw or crosswinds.

 

I’d love to hear how people like the constellation it looks like a neat grip.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

If you decide to get anything other than an FFB stick always keep an eye out for one, I prefer the MS FFB my self, get one if you find it. Once you try it you won't want anything but FFB for flying these old crates. even for the ww2 crates. 

Before getting an FFB I would stall my camel constantly, there's just no way of telling how far your pushing the plane, got an FFB and wow what a difference. The stick would shake at first sign of a stall, you can feel being hit by bullets if you dive too hard you know your plane is about to fall apart. The perfect stick in my eyes, only if MS FFB came with more buttons. 

I'm planning to build a FFB once I find the right circuit board, something with more force feedback, bigger motors. 

[Thad]

1 hour ago, Deciman said:

The FFB2 is about 20 years old and the G940 about 10 years.
But in my eyes both are the best sticks ever made for flying...

 

Deci

So, nobody is making them anymore. ?

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

4 minutes ago, Tawhiao said:

If you decide to get anything other than an FFB stick always keep an eye out for one, I prefer the MS FFB my self, get one if you find it. Once you try it you won't want anything but FFB for flying these old crates. even for the ww2 crates. 

Before getting an FFB I would stall my camel constantly, there's just no way of telling how far your pushing the plane, got an FFB and wow what a difference. The stick would shake at first sign of Klugermann, you can feel being hit by bullets if you dive too hard you know your plane is about to fall apart. The perfect stick in my eyes, only if MS FFB came with more buttons. 

I'm planning to build a FFB once I find the right circuit board, something with more force feedback, bigger motors. 

 

For more buttons us an old joystick if you don't want to spend on a throttle quadrant.  Btw, although FFB is not lefthanded it is not so uncomfortable to fly it that way.

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

31 minutes ago, Thad said:

So, nobody is making them anymore. ?

They do make some but the price range is so out of reach for the average consumer. 

28 minutes ago, Klugermann said:

 

For more buttons us an old joystick if you don't want to spend on a throttle quadrant.  Btw, although FFB is not lefthanded it is not so uncomfortable to fly it that way.

 

I tried using a Microsoft game controller but for some reason, the buttons were interfering with the buttons on the joystick, probably because of them both being from Microsoft. 

 

[LukeFF]

4 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

I heard good opinion about CH Fighterstick.

 

CH controllers are still plenty good, even though the tech inside them is dated. The programming software, in addition, is still excellent after all these years. 

[JGr2/J5_Klugermann]

46 minutes ago, Thad said:

So, nobody is making them anymore. ?

 

Ebay  50-75 USD

[eRoN]

5 hours ago, 307_Tomcat said:

 

I heard good opinion about CH Fighterstick.

 

So did i, which is why i bought one. Then after about a year of light use the Y axis completely stopped working. Looked online and a lot of people had similar issues.

[SeaW0lf]

1 hour ago, Tawhiao said:

They do make some but the price range is so out of reach for the average consumer.

 

Which brand is making them (FFB)?

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 minute ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

Which brand is making them (FFB)?

Have to see who made them again, was way out of my price range, like $2,500.00 for a stick, no thanks. But I did find controllers to build a stick.

http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System-Purchase.php  I might go that way and see, different options I'm looking at.

[SeaW0lf]

15 minutes ago, Tawhiao said:

Have to see who made them again, was way out of my price range, like $2,500.00 for a stick, no thanks. But I did find controllers to build a stick.

http://bffsimulation.com/BFF-FFB-System-Purchase.php  I might go that way and see, different options I'm looking at.

 

Geez, that's insane!

[NO.20_W_M_Thomson]

1 hour ago, SeaW0lf said:

 

Geez, that's insane!

Yup, I might start a thread on building an FFB stick, don't want to hijack this one.

[SeaW0lf]

7 minutes ago, Tawhiao said:

Yup, I might start a thread on building an FFB stick, don't want to hijack this one.

 

Cool, please do, because I think people are interested on it. I for myself could not live without my G940 for flying these crates.

[J5_Gamecock]

13 hours ago, Zooropa_Fly said:

Cheap - TM1600

Quality - VKB or VIRPIL.

Stay away from... Warthogs !

 

S!

  Just curious really, what is wrong with the Warthog in your opinion? I've been using it for a couple of years now. While I admit it's more stick than you need for a WWI sim, but I really have no issues and I'm very comfortable with it. 

[AldoUSMC]

If you want to go somewhat realistic for WWI on controls you may look into a simple, quality pitch and roll joystick with a trigger or two and a view hat switch or two and then use CH Products or Logitech Pro Flight Throttle Quadrants to manage oil radiators, water radiators, fuel flow. Adding another quadrant in the future allows you to do multi-engine control etc.

 

Some of the more modern HOTAS systems allow for two engine control (split throttle) and have enough programmable or mappable buttons and toggles to emulate oil, water, and fuel controls.

 

IMO rudder pedals are more natural than wrist twisting on the flight stick but I did fly like that without rudders for years.

 

I know you stated you are just getting back into flight... and wrote about Biplanes...  to help folks with recommendations... 

 

You haven't really said how you intend to fly... one monitor ? More than one monitor ? TrackIR or FreeTrack ? VR ?

 

Even if budget is not a concern for you.. you do want to think a bit about how you intent to fly (what level of arcade vs sim) so you are not disappointed when you drop down your hard earned money only to determine a few months in that you should have thought more about "x"  … and now you want new hardware.

 

You are on that path already of course through this thread.

 

On the extreme customized end if you will only really focus on one or two types of planes you could likely configure a custom controls cockpit build done exacting to those aircraft yourself using something like Bodnar Boards if that kind of creative work motivates you... of course.. as you see from numerous good recommendations above.. there's no need to go there unless it's your "thing" to do.

 

Good Luck Deciding.

[Dako]

Only Warthog + MFG Crosswinds + Wheel Stand Pro

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Dako

[US103_Baer]

@michaelws

Given that we don't yet know if FC will have pitch adjustment in-game, you might want to consider an ffb stick or something that you can extend to long-throw easily, like the vkb or virpil.

 

Personally I find the T16000 is plenty good enough in RoF, but with FC the pitch adjust thing could be a pain. Hall sensors are recommended.

 

Rudder pedals are an excellent investment for biplanes. They need lots more rudder control and the immersion factor goes up too.