Flight sim renaissance

[=69.GIAP=C0NAN]

Thanks Calvamos! BUT I REALLY, REALLY WANT IT NOW!!!!!! 

[DD_bongodriver]

Yes, no consumer version released yet, and I am beginning to feel that demand will be higher than supply, I'm loving my developer kit.

[Emgy]

Yes. Well, some women spend 3x as much on a Louis v handbag, if a dev kit gives you much enjoyment in games like Elite and Star citizen and Bos,  then why not.

[DD_bongodriver]

Yes. Well, some women spend 3x as much on a Louis v handbag, if a dev kit gives you much enjoyment in games like Elite and Star citizen and Bos,  then why not.

 

I'm not making an argument against the OR, quite the opposite, maybe I read your response incorrectly but it feels confrontational.

[Emgy]

Hmm I read your post as a case for buying the devkit now. I agree, why not, if you really want it now. Just consider the release date of the consumer version (which will be HD). I've seen a roadmap powerpoint that says Q3/Q4 2014, but it's not confirmed.

 

Another consideration is that Q3 2014 is actually too late for Bos, Elite and maybe other "would be awesome in OR" type games on your radar.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Calvamos

[JG27_Chivas]

If you have money to burn then buying the OR now is not a problem, but the current DK1 available for sale is a very early prototype, with very low resolution, motion blur, 3DOF, no physical IPD  adjustment, and motion sickness problems etc.   The consumer version will probably have none of these issues.  Still no word on the official release date, but there are hopes it could be released by the end of this year.  The developer has suggested that they want to make sure their first consumer version is successful, they don't want the kill the golden goose, by releasing the first consumer version before its ready, with all the bad publicity that would entail. 

[FuriousMeow]

How will OR effect the graphics card requirement? Will one good card give the same sort of immersion as a 3 screen set up powered by the likes of 3x 780's?

 

It will depend on the resolution only. If the consumer release can only do 1920x1080, then single card solutions used for that resolution on a single monitor will do the same with OR. No additional overhead. If they manage to get 4K OLEDs in there then you'll need the same amount of power you would need to drive that same resolution on a current either 4K single monitor or 4K resolution stretched across multiple monitors. Really it's whatever resolution OR runs in, and I suspect that as long as the screens they implement in them are tiny pixel/large resolution capable then there will also be the capability to scale resolutions. Which means you could run at the highest resolution of 4K if they have 4K OLEDs, or at a lower resolution like 2650x1600 or whatever the next resolution steps down would be. But if the max it can do is 1920x1080 then the mid to high range of the previous two generations from AMD and nVidia will have no problem.

Edited February 9, 2014 by FuriousMeow

[JG27_Chivas]

How will OR effect the graphics card requirement? Will one good card give the same sort of immersion as a 3 screen set up powered by the likes of 3x 780's?

 

I believe the OR will provide ten times the immersion of a three screen setup for at most a third of the price.   That said its unclear what type of system we will need if the OR requires atleast 60fps for the best experience.   The latest OR prototype suggest a 60fps requirement, but we will have to see if that improves with hardware revisions in the consumer version.

[DD_bongodriver]

of course the 60fps requirement is purely to make full advantage of the low persistence, it does not mean OR will not work, the experience in the DK without low persistence is quite breath-taking.

 

the OR has an amazing field of view and coupled with the fact you have full head tracking is far better than a 3 screen setup, it's even superior to a dome projected image given that you get full 3d without the need for filtering lenses.

[VeryOldMan]

I am sorry, but you are forgetting the mouse, which is a perfect clicking tool together with the Oculus Rift (and yes, I have an OR, and am using the mouse all the time).

 

When you look around in your virtual 3D world, the mouse pointer (usually a little cross) is rock steady hovering over the place where you last left it. No matter how much you move your head it just stays in place. When you then grab your mouse you can effortlessly move it very precisely to the exact place you want. Independent of the head movement, just your hand moving the mouse. It is as easy as sitting in a real cockpit and stretching your hand out to flip a switch.

 

So, with your functional clickpit + your mouse + your hotas you have absolutely all the options you need to operate the most complicated sim imaginable. Just as in a real cockpit you're not fiddling with a keyboard any longer. Just stick, mouse and all the levers and switches in the cockpit.

 

 

You know  how in the software development work a  messe up interface taht frightens the  user is called?    a plane cockpit...

 

yeah its the  prime example of what scare users.. and taht is why  your experience will not work so well    with the  larger pool of OR users.

 

 

So  you are focusing on the intersection of a niche... the Flight sim enthusiast and the OR  early adopter (  anything under 2-3 years  I consider early adopters for these means of discussion). That group resulting from the intersection is not very large....

[SKG51_robtek]

You know  how in the software development work a  messe up interface taht frightens the  user is called?    a plane cockpit...

 

yeah its the  prime example of what scare users.. and taht is why  your experience will not work so well    with the  larger pool of OR users.

 

 

So  you are focusing on the intersection of a niche... the Flight sim enthusiast and the OR  early adopter (  anything under 2-3 years  I consider early adopters for these means of discussion). That group resulting from the intersection is not very large....

Dont forget that you are talking about flight sim enthusiasts, if those are frightened by a plane cockpit, they have chosen the wrong genre

[VeryOldMan]

Dont forget that you are talking about flight sim enthusiasts, if those are frightened by a plane cockpit, they have chosen the wrong genre

 

 

THe title says  flight sim renasceince. That means bringing more people to the genre. THe ones taht are enthusiasts already play, so they are  not  subject. You dont need to bring  much to keep those, because they are already enthusiasts. But to the genre survive it needs to  get more players. THey do not need to be extremely soft players, but  the game cannot  scare the  players that had potential to get interested .

 

A lot of people areound ask me  about the games I play  and get interested. But as soon as I saythey need a joystick, they   loose the sparkle int heir eyes. Its already hard enough to overcome tahta.. to  push for even more obstacles is not healthy for an almost dead genre.

 

Sure we   woudl like it, but think on the long term survival of the genre.

[AA_Engadin]

HP is to sell keyboard incorporating Leap Motion for 99$:

 

 

http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/06/hp-leap-motion-keyboard-standalone/

 

Innovation in this area - hand/fingers movement recognition - is but begining. IMHO this is a big step towards the end of the need of holding up OR over your eyebrows to check where the f*** the keyboard is.

 

A challenge for those in the know just in case a clickable cockpit would be a no-go for the coming times: to implement a virtual keyboard you could activate to show up in your OR displays by means of a joy button and click the different keys with your virtual fingers just hovering your hands over your keyboard.

 

AA_Engadin

Edited June 8, 2014 by AA_Engadin

[AA_Engadin]

Going a bit further on the idea mentioned above: we could actuate the different keys, which would light up just by hovering our virtual fingers over them, by simulating the movement of a finger cliking on them. At the same time, a little text box at the bottom of the virtual keyboard could tell you the actual function you are activating.

 

Not a Mission: Impossible, is it?

 

AA_Engadin

[SR-F_Winger]

The problem is, Flight Simming requires additional hardware, not just the VR.

 

With your head in-the-game a HOTAS system will be essential.

 

Hopefully though, enough people will be tempted.

if something like "Control VR" becomes standard for a reasonable price this might be the solution.

Who knows maybe something like that will even be collaborating with OculusVR in the future.

[JG27_Chivas]

The Oculus development has hired some of the brightest people in the industry, and they are well aware that hand/arm control is one of the undeniable requirements for a segment of VR's huge market.  I have no doubt they are working hard inhouse and with third parties to find the best solution.

[StarLightSong]

"this is important, someone is wrong on the internet"

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funny

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c'mon you guys, didn't you see that

 

 

ha god, that made my night, I can work again tomorrow now,

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thank you.

[III/JG11_Tiger]

The answer to the input issue is a

 

1) clickpit

2) combined with hotas ("hands-on-throttle-and-stick" if anyone has forgotten)

3) + the mouse.

 

It is super-easy to click on something on-screen with the mouse using Oculus Rift. Much easier than using Trackir. Clicking on buttons and levers in the cockpit you see in OR is just as easy ss reaching out and using instruments in a real cockpit you are actually sitting in.

 

So, frequently used controls on the hotas, the rest in the clickpit.

 

- The developers decided not to go the clickpit way, but I think they will have to change their approach.

I love all the flight sims but unfortunately things like click pits wont draw people in, if anything it makes things too complex and drives them away, the reality is for flight "sims" to become more mainstream you have to go the way of Warthunder with mouse control and simplified flight controls, it's a shame but it is hard to see flight sims ever being more than a niche.

[C-Bag]

The answer to the input issue is a

 

1) clickpit

2) combined with hotas ("hands-on-throttle-and-stick" if anyone has forgotten)

3) + the mouse.

 

It is super-easy to click on something on-screen with the mouse using Oculus Rift. Much easier than using Trackir. Clicking on buttons and levers in the cockpit you see in OR is just as easy ss reaching out and using instruments in a real cockpit you are actually sitting in.

 

So, frequently used controls on the hotas, the rest in the clickpit.

 

- The developers decided not to go the clickpit way, but I think they will have to change their approach.

+1 as a noob, this seems like such a no brainer. And maybe this can be added on later. I'm not bagging on the Devs, god knows they've got enough of that. But this would address so much of the future application. I LOVE how right now in normal mode you don't have the extra layer of engine, prop etc. management. There's enough to deal with already as a noob, but all it takes is a click of a button and you jump that into expert.

 

BOS is accessible as it is and the Dev's are doing a wonderful job of concentrating on the core of what BOS should be. Building it right in front of our eyes is an amazing opportunity. But it's really easy to loose sight of that core with any project as time and complications build up. And doing in front of an audience......I couldn't do it. I want to support the Dev's in holding true to what I see as what I see and admire as the true Russian nature to make things rugged, functional ,bullet proof and ingenious. This is what's going to bring people to sim's, not non functional, buggy bells and whistles. Lots of people were put off by the early CLoD and with the way the internet is if you have a buggy game everybody knows it in a flash. So it's a double edged sword.

 

I'm also looking fwd to seeing what OR can do. TIR was the most amazing jump for me in the sim experience. OR could be the next big jump, but it's all in the application. The world is full of good ideas, applied badly. Personally I wish they would have just made it a helmet from the git go. It would help balance it on your head better and could incorporate headphones and possibly a mic all in one unit instead of having to put on all these separate things. Simple is better.

[SharpeXB]

"That’s just one way in which the logic of mainstream gaming may not pertain to the Oculus. For instance, fast-twitch human locomotion—the kind of running and jumping that Carmack pioneered with Doom—becomes overwhelming in VR.

Similarly, some of the most popular games being shared among developers and early adopters are simulators, in which players drive or parachute or roller-coaster through an otherwise static world but don’t move themselves."

 

"a front-­facing camera might allow the Rift to someday track users’ gestures instead—like a Kinect, but more powerful. “In the early days of VR, it was all goggles and gloves,” Carmack says. “Nobody’s talking about gloves now—it’s going to be done with optical tracking."

 

http://www.wired.com/2014/05/oculus-rift-4/#x