Flight sim renaissance

[SKG51_robtek]

Maybe I'm a bit thin skinned regarding CloD.

[falstaff]

Well I wouldn't take it to heart, quite a few are....though I would have thought the whole process of pre-to post-release would result in a considerable amount of skin-thickening where that game is concerned...

 

not so much needed this time around...so far... which is good....

[Rama]

Maybe I'm a bit thin skinned regarding .../...

 

There's an easy cure for this (whatever the "touchy" matter):

- If a post is hurting you - don't answer immediatelly - wait a few hours

- If the hurt is really bad, - don't answer - report to the moderators

- If you feel an urge to reply to a post - don't do it immediatelly - wait a few hours

- If after a few hours, you still think it's urgent to answer - don't do it, wait another few hours

- if after waiting, you think you could add some factual information that could give another lighting on the post, this without going in a personal argument - then maybe it's the right time to post.

 

Nothing is THAT important that it need to be written in the next coming minutes.

[J2_Trupobaw]

http://xkcd.com/386/

Back to the topic, I predict a rise of fixed point of view arcade games that can be operated with gamepad / mouse and five buttons, like War Thunder, Call of Duty or racing games. If they could rise even higher.

As of sims, I don't believe Hotas will solve problem of HMD blocking controls well enough to bring in new players.  First, most new sim players start with entry level twist stick joystick (if that), mouse and keyboard, find it extraordinary that you need special hardware to play a game at all and have dificulty learning the controls they can see. Hotas or separate lever units are more expansive than entry level sticks and people buy them when they already are sim enthusiasts. Second, even if you have Hotas, learning to use it completely eyes-off - or finding it eyes-off when you lift hand to scratch your nose - takes time and familiarisation, eyes-on, to learn. Hotas may enable an old player who knows his rig well to use HMD, but won't help new player who'd need to buy it, then to learn to use it without seeing it, to use his head mounted display while learning the flight sim. If anything, it may discourage OR owners once word goes out that the game supports OR, but you need to take extra steps, buy extra hardware if you want to use it.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Trupobaw

[JG27_Chivas]

Effective, cheap, VR will be the biggest game changer "ever" in the gaming industry.  It will draw far more people than ever into the industry.  When non gamers try the OR, and are asked would this new tech change their mind about gaming, the usual answer is yes.  Its very hard to believe that flight sims won't benefit from a small proportion of that increase, especially since flight sims are so well suited to the latest VR hardware, and can initially be flown with a game pad.   Which is larger, .001% of 1,000,000, or .001% of 2,000,000.

[JG27_Chivas]

The OR will also have an positive effect on BOS.  If the OR is ten times more immersive than a monitor with TrackIR, which sim are we going to fly, the one with OR support or the one without.

 

"Full HD dev version of Oculus Rift tuning was completed last week. Thanks to our programming team, the game is absolutely compatible with this new technology. It’s truly hard to find words worth describing the whole range of emotions: delight, fear, curiosity, admiration, interest - all the feelings born by flying over Stalingrad in virtual reality. Yes, I know that the device  is not yet available to users on a true retail level and it will hardly be inexpensive, but trust me: HD Oculus suits BOS as great as cream suits hot borsch A high level of immersion - usually featured by a quality sim game - becomes incredible due to the use of this thing. And yes, I don’t recommend it to faint hearted pilots. Although I don’t think there are a lot of those in our community, is there?"

[=69.GIAP=C0NAN]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

There are far more forces at play here than just OR. I am returning to combat flight simming after a two year hiatus. What I noticed while I was gone may help you understand why I believe things are going to be different.

 

1. I replaced my Alienware gaming laptop I used for travel with a MacBook Air. I have two iPads (one company provided) and an iPhone now as well. I have not used a desktop rig the entire time I was away. I love the intuitive ease of the Apple universe. I don't like the invasiveness, but I have learned to be careful.

 

2. Most people are moving away from the PC. Laptops and PEDs in forms as yet undiscovered are where the world is headed. Entertainment is mostly to be had on XBox or PlayStation. I do not believe either are capable of this level of simming at present. In order to capture a truly large audience for flight simming, I think they, or something similar and not a $2000 gaming rig used for little else, will need to be the platform of choice for flight simmers. BOS may be flight simming, but as my dear comrade STENKA put it so eloquently, "...it's an entertainment!"

 

3. OR will be a huge hit and most of this community will likely end up getting it as it improves and makes this a truly immersive game. I will buy one as I build what will likely be my last gaming rig both for the anticipated pleasure and to help support their efforts with my money.

 

However, OR's influence will not likely be any influx of new players so much as keeping a flagging interest alive in those already interested, IMHO.

 

4. We, as a community, need to change slightly to make flight simming more attractive. Flight simming is difficult to learn and far more complex than FPS games. You don't just sit down and start an aircraft and get into the sky without a good deal of work and study. Don't like getting shot down all of the time? More, work and study and lots of giving up and doing something else. We need to find the time and the means to nurture folks who are interested until they can stand on their own. Who wants to work so hard at "an entertainment"? This whole idea may need its own thread.

 

OR may be a critical element in a revival of flight simming, but we need find ways to do even more to help expose folks to the (hopefully) amazing virtual experience in flight and bring them into the fold.

Edited February 1, 2014 by =69.GIAP=C0NAN

[JG27_Chivas]

That's one of the reasons John Cormack is busy integrating the OR into Android devices, where you can plug the OR directly into our smartphones.   This integration isn't planned for the first consumer release.   Our smartphones won't be able to run complex combat flight sims, but they certainly will be able to run a simple flight sim combining the OR's sense of flight with decent graphics, that could inspire some people to delve deeper into the genre.

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

 The doom of PC desktop gaming has been touted for ages yet they still go on. No mobile or laptop device will get to performance levels a true desktop gaming PC can achieve, not at least in near future. Imagine a tablet hogging excess of 500-600W of power..it would melt. Gaming laptop is not feasible at all, too heavy and cooling it would be a pain. I think there will be more interaction between the devices rather than one unified thingmie, at least with current tech.

[LLv44_Mprhead]

And then there is also this stuff coming http://www.tomshardware.com/articles/?tag=steamos

[racingslippers]

My main point was:

 

Perhaps people will be tempted to try different gaming experiences that would work particularly well with the OR.

 

 

Just taking a moment to agree heartily with this.

[=69.GIAP=C0NAN]

S!

 

While essentially correct Flanker, my point is that it is those of us already enthralled with this entertainment that are pursuing this. How many new people will we be able to recruit when we mention, "Oh, BTW, you need to sink $3000 into a PC, monitor or OR, Track IR, stick and rudder pedals? For a great rennaisance, I think we eventually need to find a way to port this to some kind of super X-Box.

 

PS. My wife already thinks I'm Looney Tunes for doing essentially just that. But I was already enthralled and have sufficient means.

Edited February 7, 2014 by =69.GIAP=C0NAN

[Trooper117]

lol... I've recently spent over £1000 on building my new pc... (it was my Christmas present to me!)

My other half however thinks that it should have been spent on a new conservatory

However, I won when I explained to her that I couldn't connect the conservatory to the internet and fly it... (and some deaf and dumb breakfasts that followed of course)

It's taken me 3 years of saving odd bits of spare cash to get to that point of course... but I 'must' find the assets to play my favourite hobby!

[JG27_Chivas]

Quote from Luthier's  email update today, trying the Rift in DCS.

 

"Now, another really exciting thing we’re doing this week is playing with Oculus Rift. It’s pretty good, although the implementation is pretty basic at the moment. No 6DOF yet, and the world outside is a bit warpy and it looks like you’re inside an egg, but the immersion of being inside the cockpit is just superb. It is such an incredible breakthrough, the feeling is so life-like, that words simply cannot describe it. Once I put it on, I don't want to take it off. Could spend hours just flying over the landscape and watching things move around."

 

This is what I'm talking about. More people will be drawn into flight sims after experiencing what Luthier just experienced just flying around looking at stuff.

Edited February 7, 2014 by JG27_Chivas

[HagarTheHorrible]

I really hope that 777/1C can do something with Oculus HD crew at the Euro computer gaming thing during the summer.  I think it would be a superb selling/promotion thing, just at the right moment, as both products should be about ready for release and should compliment each others strengths perfectly.  Also having some general press coverage wouldn't hurt either and if their main opportunity to try the Oculus Rift is with BoS then all to the good.

[Revvin]

Luthier is an experienced sim pilot so no big learning curve to overcome and he also has the additional hardware required to play

[JG27_Chivas]

Luthier is an experienced sim pilot so no big learning curve to overcome and he also has the additional hardware required to play

You don't need flight experience or additiional hardware to experience what  Luthier did.   You can do it with an airstart, gamepad, OR,  and decent graphic software.

Edited February 7, 2014 by JG27_Chivas

[DD_bongodriver]

What learning curve are we talking about here?

[JG27_Chivas]

I really hope that 777/1C can do something with Oculus HD crew at the Euro computer gaming thing during the summer.  I think it would be a superb selling/promotion thing, just at the right moment, as both products should be about ready for release and should compliment each others strengths perfectly.  Also having some general press coverage wouldn't hurt either and if their main opportunity to try the Oculus Rift is with BoS then all to the good.

 

The Oculus Rift developers are definitely looking for very good gaming software to release with their new hardware.  If BOS can be implemented as well as Loft suggests, then approaching the OR developers with some sort of release deal would be huge for both developments.    That said, BOS should be released much sooner than the OR, but that doesn't mean their couldn't some major cooperation between the two developments.

[Mogster]

I see the OR selling in vastly greater numbers than TIR. It has a level of utility and, hopefully, ease of use that TIR lacks.

 

I can imagine driving and flying with the OR will be an intense immersive experience, that can only be good for sims surely. Suitable in game controls will come, and quickly. I think VR will bring a total gaming revolution, I even wonder if it'll completely replace conventional TVs and monitors.

[dburne]

I see the OR selling in vastly greater numbers than TIR. It has a level of utility and, hopefully, ease of use that TIR lacks.

 

 

 

I have to say if that turns out to be the case, I will be very surprised. I hope it is for the success of the device and future development.

[JG27_Chivas]

I see the OR selling in vastly greater numbers than TIR. It has a level of utility and, hopefully, ease of use that TIR lacks.

 

I can imagine driving and flying with the OR will be an intense immersive experience, that can only be good for sims surely. Suitable in game controls will come, and quickly. I think VR will bring a total gaming revolution, I even wonder if it'll completely replace conventional TVs and monitors.

I agree TIR won't even be in the same ballpark.  VR will bring more people into gaming period, not to mention the ten other huge industries that will  benefit from VR's use.  There is a reason almost 100 million dollars have been invested in one VR prodoct in the last year alone.

Edited February 7, 2014 by JG27_Chivas

[Revvin]

I see the OR selling in vastly greater numbers than TIR. It has a level of utility and, hopefully, ease of use that TIR lacks.

It will almost certainly do that, TIR was mainly used in flight sims, in the racing sim and FPS groups I joined hardly anyone used it. OR has been courting the FPS game developers as they know this is the genre that will help push sales. OR will be easier to get used to for tracking because it allows for true 1:1 tracking

[LLv44_Mprhead]

I'm looking forward to OR myself. Haven't got the chance to try it yet, but seems that everybody who has are sold. As for flight sim renaissance, it should help also for the reasons mentioned above. Still, in my opinion, more important is to get simulators running also with lower end hardware. So that people need only to buy the game and joystick to get into it. Luckily that's the direction BoS seems to be going to. Game looks okey with graphics on low and it really doesn't take latest high-end gaming desktop to run it.

[Panzerlang]

OR resolution is the archilles heel.

[DD_bongodriver]

OR resolution is the archilles heel.

 

But you don't know what the consumer versions resolution is going to be.

[Panzerlang]

I know the best that's out there and it's not good enough for high-fidelity graphics in a CFS. In my opinion anyway. I certainly wouldn't play on a monitor at 1024x768 stylee.

[=IRFC=SmokinHole]

Wrong thread.  Sorry

Edited February 8, 2014 by SmokinHole

[Panzerlang]

You know the best what? The best IPS display?

 

There are already small displays running far in excess of 1024 x 768, in fact I'm on one now, a 7" screen at 1920 x 1200.

Mine isn't the highest density screen available either.

 

Nobody knows yet what kind of screen the OR will have, but your assumption that it'll be 1024 x 768 is laughable.

 

It was a crude comparison. 1920x1200 a couple of inches from the eyes will be roughly the same as non-aliased 1024 at a couple of feet on a monitor. Unless they're doing some kind of magik with lenses.

[DD_bongodriver]

Unless they're doing some kind of magik with lenses

 

 

Yes, not quite magic but it's the lenses that make it work.

[JG27_Chivas]

The OR developers are saying the consumer screen will be atleast HD, but are still working with hardware manufacturers.   They've also implied they can't announce hardware that the hardware developer haven't announced yet.   The fact that these hardware developers are willing to work with the OR developers suggests a very strong market potential.   There is little doubt that the initial consumer release will have a very capable display.

[DD_fruitbat]

Tried it myself yesterday, it is truly awesome.

 

A real 'holy shit' moment the first time i banked over and dived in a mig 29 in the Himalayas 

[HagarTheHorrible]

Tried it myself yesterday, it is truly awesome.

 

A real 'holy shit' moment the first time i banked over and dived in a mig 29 in the Himalayas

 

Now THAT is what I'm talking about. Combat flight sims can be fun for sure but the flying itself can often be a little dull for the thrill a second FPS crowd, however with convincing 3D and wide field of view, just like at an IMAX, then even the most boring sight seeing flight can be a great experience, add in aerial chess and it's got to be a winner.

[Emgy]

Lots of people will be getting OR for porn. Maybe some of them will wander into sim territory. Only half joking.

[DD_bongodriver]

The Japanese wasted no time developing weird sex gizmos for the VR experience.

[JG27_Chivas]

The wife might not know what your watching, but the joystick your using is a major tell.

[DD_Crash]

How will OR effect the graphics card requirement? Will one good card give the same sort of immersion as a 3 screen set up powered by the likes of 3x 780's?

[DD_bongodriver]

How will OR effect the graphics card requirement? Will one good card give the same sort of immersion as a 3 screen set up powered by the likes of 3x 780's?

 

it should, there is no real extra demand from the OR, some people like to suggest that the low persistence screen requiring 60fps needs a nuclear power station to run it but that is rhetoric from ardent cynics.

[=69.GIAP=C0NAN]

I went looking to find a consumer version of the OR. Evidently all that is available is the Developer's Version. Is that what Y'all are getting? Is it worth waiting for the next, higher res edition? I want to support the OR developers and would buy one if it would help and a non-IT guy like me could make it work. Suggestions?

[Emgy]

OR devs are swimming in investment money and prospective military contracts, don't worry about supporting them.

I'd wait for the high res version... but I know what it feels like to have some money burning a hole in your pocket.

 

Just consider, if you buy a devkit now, you will most likely want spend money again on the HD version.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Calvamos