First impressions

[HagarTheHorrible]

I initially resisted installing and flying it, first because I was on holiday and secondly, I didn't want to prejudice an outstanding support question (rebate/credit) but hadn't heard anything back from support so, what the hell.  I only fly in VR, it's not perfect by any means, but I still feel the positives outway the negatives. I can only assume that FC's main purpose in life is to bring WW1 aircraft into VR, excepting that and given what little we know about what is planned I can't, as yet, make out what FC adds over and above RoF. Yes it brings higher poly count models and increased texture count (which, at the moment, are less obvious in VR ironically) and will eventually add another map but given that there will be no work done on FM's or DM's, beyond possible bug fixing I'm not sure what the price point of FC represents.  On the face of it, it seems a cheap, for the developers that is, expansion.  Of course, I have no idea what work is required to port the aircraft over from RoF or how much work is involved in updating the models or textures but it does seem that there is significantly less than one might expect from a new, fully featured game or expansion.  Now don't take this as a criticism, it's not, It's just that I'm not sure what FC adds, what features does the BoX game engine bring to the table that RoF didn't (VR excepted) that couldn't have been achieved by allowing modders to play around with RoF's models and texture size ? To ask it another way, if I didn't have VR what am I paying for ?

 

Oddly enough, the first aircraft I jumped in was the DR1.  Wow, loved the model. In VR it was just awesome, especially those guns, hammering away.  The constituent parts of the aircraft just seemed to have weight, mass, presence.  Those wings really are view blockers.  I think dogfighting in it is going to be really fun, challenging yes but also very rewarding. (Remember this is in VR with its resolution and field of view limitations.) The only things that I had a problem with were the brightness of a couple of the external instruments, the faces just seemed very dark, regardless of whether they had sun on them or not.  The other thing was that I had difficulty judging was which was the front and which was the rear sight (iron sights) when I was trying to line up for a shot.  It's maybe me (my eyesight) or the game lighting but depth perception, for me, is not up to distinguishing the two apart when trying to judge which way to move my head when lining up a shot which, in VR, you need to do a lot.

 

The Spad, for some reason, just didn't seem to pop out or have the same wow factor as the DR1, I'm not sure why.  I enjoyed flying it sure, but for some reason, the cockpit just didn't grab me in the same way as the Fokker.  One thing I definitely didn't like was the leather padding on the upper wing, it just seemed rather crude by comparison and given that it's right in front of your face it's hard to avoid.  One bug I came across, when the Aldis sight is enabled and you move your head to the left after aiming, you get a double image of the sighting aperture,  this doesn't happen up, down or to the right, just when you move your head back towards the center of the cockpit.

 

I haven't come to any conclusions yet about getting the correct sight picture, when shooting in VR, I tend to get close anyway so it's less of an issue, it does require a fair bit of head bobbing to line it up properly though as well as thinking time, although that might be something to do with distinguishing between the front and back sights when trying to line them up.

 

Overall I like what VR and thus FC brings to WW1 dogfighting, I'm just not sure what FC adds otherwise that justifies the full game price but then it's probably just a simple matter of economics, we have to accept that we are a niche within a niche within a niche and that requires a bigger commitment from its fans.  I'll be interested to see what, if anything, being part of BoX will add to the FC going forward, is FC feature complete or are there things that can be done to keep FC fresh and interesting beyond the porting of additional aircraft sets into the game ?

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by HagarTheHorrible

[Jack59]

Nice post Hagar.

 

But to me as a single player, the answer to your question of what I am paying for is obvious. The AI is much improved. The simplicity of the RoF AI is why I stopped playing that game. The AI in FC is something that I know I am going to be able to live with. And there is also the prospect of it improving.

 

Another plus: I expect that the map(s) will be greatly improved. Think of how awesome the Kuban map is compared to earlier efforts. I expect to see an even greater level of improvement of FC maps vs RoF maps.

[T_oll]

What are we paying for...

It’s an interesting question.

 

I don’t know if you have any experience with the Microsoft Flight Simulator series?

Every iteration presented something new. Everything was kept in tune with software and hardware advances, every few years. But basically it was the same ol’ sim. Sure, a few new aircraft, more airports. The concept stayed the same.

 

The same thing is, more or less, happening here.

It’s still the same war that is simulated, so we can’t expect much to change there.

The simulation engine is new and updated. It has been brought up to new standards in hard and software compatibility.

 

RoF gave us many years of entertainment. It was continously updated with more DLC and other fixes and improvements. Then it stopped, and the developers moved on. No, not every problem or error was fixed. That was the same with the MS FS series too, and with every game or sim I have ever bought, I believe...

 

There is a limit to how long one can expect game or sim developers to continue updating their products. Sometimes they need to start anew, with a clean sheet.

 

There are more improvements to the IL-2 Great Battles sim than just better graphics. It takes advantage of new APIs and the flightmodel is more advanced.

 

Now, I have never made a flightsimulator in my life. But I have played with most of them and I know that there’s no flightsim that has ever been updated without manpower. Coders and artists do this for a living, and they don’t work for free. Neither do I.

 

I bought everything there was, in RoF. I enjoyed it immensly! In many ways it was the best flightsim I have ever played. I got my moneys worth and then some.

 

Looks like Flying Circus is about to continue to supply the fantastic enjoyment of RoF, but a little bit better and longer...

[HagarTheHorrible]

Just remembered, I loved the AAA tracer arcing up and flying past, it seemed a lot more intense in a slow flying aircraft with open cockpit.

 

Despite the experience of others I haven't as yet either lost a set of wings or shot any off, but then still early days so fingers crossed.

[yaan98]

Well, if we take the dev's word for it on what will be included then there's a bit more than VR support

 

•  10,000 sq. km. map of the Arras sector in WWI including cities, towns, airfields and famous No-Mans-Land.  [yaan] - I'm expecting better looking models and 3D trench system than RoF
•  Numerous types of buildings, hangars, ground vehicles and scenery objects to enhance mission environment. [yaan] - waiting to see what improvements this will bring above RoF.
•  Detailed and precise exterior models of aircraft with 4K skins. [yaan] - Again, I'm expecting better graphics than RoF which so far it is.
•  Full-scale 3D interior of each aircraft that looks amazing in VR. [yaan] - Definitely agree here. 
•  Realistic ballistics modeling. [yaan] - Again, waiting to see the variations in ammunition types.
•  Detailed physics model and performance of aircraft. [yaan] - I like the FM more than RoF so far.
•  Detailed damage model to simulate damage to planes made of lighter materials. [yaan] - I'm on the fence with this one because all I've noticed was too frequent unrealistic shedding of damaged wings.
•  Mission Editor support. [yaan] - Nice to have for making historical missions.

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by yaan98

[HagarTheHorrible]

41 minutes ago, yaan98 said:

Well, if we take the dev's word for it on what will be included then there's a bit more than VR support

 

•  10,000 sq. km. map of the Arras sector in WWI including cities, towns, airfields and famous No-Mans-Land.  [yaan] - I'm expecting better looking models and 3D trench system than RoF
•  Numerous types of buildings, hangars, ground vehicles and scenery objects to enhance mission environment. [yaan] - waiting to see what improvements this will bring above RoF.
•  Detailed and precise exterior models of aircraft with 4K skins. [yaan] - Again, I'm expecting better graphics than RoF which so far it is.
•  Full-scale 3D interior of each aircraft that looks amazing in VR. [yaan] - Definitely agree here. 
•  Realistic ballistics modeling. [yaan] - Again, waiting to see the variations in ammunition types.
•  Detailed physics model and performance of aircraft. [yaan] - I like the FM more than RoF so far.
•  Detailed damage model to simulate damage to planes made of lighter materials. [yaan] - I'm on the fence with this one because all I've noticed was too frequent unrealistic shedding of damaged wings.
•  Mission Editor support. [yaan] - Nice to have for making historical missions.

 

 

Well, the map is the biggy but your second point is really no different from the first.  It would be a bit silly having a map and no objects.  I don't know how much if anything, maybe lots, can be used from RoF.  A large part of making anything, whether it be aircraft or hangers etc is the research that goes into recreating something that looks and feels authentic.  Most, if not all of that work was done for RoF, the lighting and textures, even some of the models might need to be redone, but the research from RoF should still hold good. The aircraft and cockpits themselves, from what I understand, are already done, they aren't new but just upgraded from RoF.  The FM's and DM's are not new, again imported from RoF.  FM's appear to be subtly different from RoF, according to some, if not most, reports but what BoX itself adds to them is open for discussion, I would be fascinated (not in a sarcastic tone) to know.  DM modeling is possibly the same as RoF, as of yet, the jury is still out.  Work, it would appear,  still needs to be done, tweaking various aspects like rate of fire according to engine speed etc but know doubt that will come over the following months.

[dburne]

14 hours ago, HagarTheHorrible said:

 

Well, the map is the biggy but your second point is really no different from the first.  It would be a bit silly having a map and no objects.  I don't know how much if anything, maybe lots, can be used from RoF.  A large part of making anything, whether it be aircraft or hangers etc is the research that goes into recreating something that looks and feels authentic.  Most, if not all of that work was done for RoF, the lighting and textures, even some of the models might need to be redone, but the research from RoF should still hold good. The aircraft and cockpits themselves, from what I understand, are already done, they aren't new but just upgraded from RoF.  The FM's and DM's are not new, again imported from RoF.  FM's appear to be subtly different from RoF, according to some, if not most, reports but what BoX itself adds to them is open for discussion, I would be fascinated (not in a sarcastic tone) to know.  DM modeling is possibly the same as RoF, as of yet, the jury is still out.  Work, it would appear,  still needs to be done, tweaking various aspects like rate of fire according to engine speed etc but know doubt that will come over the following months.

 

Jason pointed out in an earlier thread shortly after release, the aircraft and cockpits are not ported from ROF but all newly built.

Only the FM was used.

[Nil]

On 7/29/2018 at 8:25 PM, T_oll said:

Then it stopped, and the developers moved on. No, not every problem or error was fixed.

That is what worries me the most for IL2 Great Battles. I hope they will do much better in that field.

[Maxiku]

Just tried my first couple of flights and I am loving it on my HTC Vive.

Rise Of Flight is great but I've been flying ROF since summer 2009 and to be able to use my VR was my next big dream.

 

So - Since I've been yearning for a proper WW1 VR flight sim (and I know that's a very limited market right now) so I think it's an absolute bargain. Although it's very early access I'm already enjoying it, and since 1C/777 have a long history of delivering - I have no qualms about buying in so early.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Maxiku

[T_oll]

11 hours ago, TG1_Nil said:

That is what worries me the most for IL2 Great Battles. I hope they will do much better in that field.

 

You completely missed my point!

 

They did a great job with RoF!

I hope they do just as well with IL-2 Great battles.

 

Just think about it for a moment. Think about how RoF evolved, with new aircraft, maps and feature added all the time.

You can’t expect any developer to keep updating and fixing a game indefinitely. Some day they have to stop, and move on.

[Bartman]

I play exclusively in VR and my first impressions is......WOW.

 

If FC turns out to be the sim I hope it will be its going to be THE WW1 sim for VR.

 

Some things I really hope they add in the future are Career mode. Lots of mission variations like balloon busting, ground attack both on the front lines and behind the lines on airfields and supply dumps, photography missions using say something like a bombsight view for the camera and a way to view your photos after the mission (in B&W of course!). Would be great to fly a two person recon with one flying the aircraft and the second person as the gunner/observer/camera operator. A proper 3D accurate to history trench system for the front lines where if you fly low enough you can see stuff happening on the ground. Artillery spotting missions using a signalling system to aim the ground artillery onto their target just to name a few!

 

I'm really looking forward to the map release, wonder how long that will take? and more aircraft added. But for now FC has made a very good start in my book. Looking forward to how it develops and turns out...….

[Archie]

Even though I bought it on the first day, today was the first time I had the chance to get on my gaming pc and  fly FC in VR. It is totally stunning.Been playing for hours and my necks killing me lol!