Over my shoulder view in VR BoX

[J5_HellCat_]

2 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

Because I also support similar restrictions for these views for every other player as well.

 

You want easy assists.. sure no problem, but let's make them lockable just like padlock views or icons because they also are lockable for the exact same reason.

 TIR & Hat switch 6 views = easy assists ....got it ...thanks

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

9 minutes ago, HellCat_ said:

 TIR & Hat switch 6 views = easy assists ....got it ...thanks

 

Yes.

 

The Yak1 Series 69, not known for its rearward visibility.. but wait - push 1 button and your pilot goes full owl mode, and lifts his butt out of the seat to see out the top corner.

Tell me that isn't an 'assist' that should be something a server operator can restrict?

 

 

 

[J5_HellCat_]

I hear you ....just never gonna happen those views are available on every "EXPERT" Server and always will be .....That's my point ...I just want the same ability to check six quickly that everyone else has already ....Out

Edited December 13, 2018 by HellCat_

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

But rather than keeping us back with snap views, why not try drive forwards and leave snap views behind?

For now, just revel in the joy that many of the pilots you shoot down online failed even though they were "gaming/exploiting" the game.

 

[J5_HellCat_]

I don't feel like anyone's keeping anyone back ....it's a game in the end ....you can't tell people "You can't play this game unless you have limited TIR or a headset" I mean I guess you could if you just want them to look straight ahead  snap views are in every modern flight sim and will remain so.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

Yet we are fine with locking servers to only people with a joystick and not mouse controls, or those that want external views or icons.

Anyway, I've said my part - it my time to fly not type.

 

[HunDread]

The future is most probably VR only servers, but I believe that is still quite a long way ahead. 

[J5_HellCat_]

 

 

1 hour ago, -[HRAF]Black_Sab said:

The future is most probably VR only servers, but I believe that is still quite a long way ahead. 

That would be great wouldn't it ?  But do you really think it would take that long? With the ability to limit settings in servers in so many ways you would think limiting a server to only VR view could work .....I mean most people without VR wouldn't fly in a server that locked their view to straight ahead ....

Edited December 13, 2018 by HellCat_

[HunDread]

I mean it still appears quite hard to properly populate servers except for 2-3 exceptions. I also don't see a reason for a boom in total users of IL-2 making way for lots of full-house servers so the only way I see this happening when a good deal of the community migrates to VR. That takes time. I want to be wrong though... 

[SCG_motoadve]

VR has a big advantage in gunnery though, way easier to hit than watching a monitor.

[J5_HellCat_]

Hmmm ...I bet a VR only server on the weekends would be fairly busy .....

 

[Alonzo]

1 hour ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

But rather than keeping us back with snap views, why not try drive forwards and leave snap views behind?

 

I'd actually support this -- servers with a "no snap views" option. TrackIR is still massively easier to look behind you.

 

VR-only servers? ?

[Guest deleted@134347]

VR-only servers?  I'm all for that !!  A blind leader leading his blind brigade!  ?

 

joking aside I'd definitely love a vr only mp.

[OrLoK]

+1 for VR only servers too.

 

BUT

 

how would that work?

 

How would you stop the owls from using the server to gain an advantage?

[J5_HellCat_]

The only way would be through limiting the views to VR  view only somehow...I don't think there's a way at the moment but if you could lock all other views to forward only I don't think most players would bother joining.

[Guest deleted@134347]

1 minute ago, HellCat_ said:

The only way would be through limiting the views to VR  view only somehow...I don't think there's a way at the moment but if you could lock all other views to forward only I don't think most players would bother joining.

 

yeah, and I noticed on the russian forums they've been discussing it at lengths alas without any resolution. It seems to me it's something we need to request from the Devs, why not...

[II./JG77_Manu*]

3 hours ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

 

Because I also support similar restrictions for these views for every other player as well.

 

You want easy assists.. sure no problem, but let's make them lockable just like padlock views or icons because they also are lockable for the exact same reason.

 

This would only be reasonable if there would be a lock for all players and also limiting TrackIR turning abilities at the same time. Otherwise it would be nonsense.
But limiting players current view you'll have to fight a lot of resistance. TIR and snapview users will fight very hard to keep their wonder abilities

[SCG_motoadve]

Have you guys tried turning your head, center view and 

6 minutes ago, II./JG77_Manu* said:

 

This would only be reasonable if there would be a lock for all players and also limiting TrackIR turning abilities at the same time. Otherwise it would be nonsense.
But limiting players current view you'll have to fight a lot of resistance. TIR and snapview users will fight very hard to keep their wonder abilities

And those guys are the majority.

Anyone has an idea what percentage of players are VR users?

 

Once the next gen VR sets come out in a few months with larger FOV, checking six will be much easier.

[Alonzo]

I don't think VR-only servers would be very much fun, there's probably significantly less players and I think it would be an incredibly snobby thing to shut out pancake players. That said, snap views and infinite zoom are big advantages in MP competitive play. I wouldn't give up VR but it does mean I get shot up a lot and have worse 'distance' situational awareness and worse awareness when someone's on my dead six in a dogfight. I think when you sign up for VR's benefits -- immersion and better front-facing gunnery in a dogfight -- you also sign up for its drawbacks. It's pretty realistic to need to fly 500m combat spread and have people checking each other's six.

 

The 10km draw distance has been bugging me recently. Sometimes I think my spotting is just dogshit (it probably is) but I *swear* planes suddenly appear pretty close, I rarely see anything as small as 1-3 pixels.

[J5_HellCat_]

Snobby ...nah  ......... Draw distance yes ..... Planes suddenly appear were they weren't for me as well....

[Guest deleted@134347]

12 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I don't think VR-only servers would be very much fun, there's probably significantly less players and I think it would be an incredibly snobby thing to shut out pancake players. That said, snap views and infinite zoom are big advantages in MP competitive play. I wouldn't give up VR but it does mean I get shot up a lot and have worse 'distance' situational awareness and worse awareness when someone's on my dead six in a dogfight. I think when you sign up for VR's benefits -- immersion and better front-facing gunnery in a dogfight -- you also sign up for its drawbacks. It's pretty realistic to need to fly 500m combat spread and have people checking each other's six.

 

The 10km draw distance has been bugging me recently. Sometimes I think my spotting is just dogshit (it probably is) but I *swear* planes suddenly appear pretty close, I rarely see anything as small as 1-3 pixels.

 

 

I get your points, but there are private servers with passwords, which are the ultimate 'snobby' servers in my book.  So, how is setting up a VR-only snobby server any different from that?  Also, it's a server permissions customization ask, not a full-game ask.

[HunDread]

19 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I don't think VR-only servers would be very much fun, there's probably significantly less players and I think it would be an incredibly snobby thing to shut out pancake players. That said, snap views and infinite zoom are big advantages in MP competitive play. I wouldn't give up VR but it does mean I get shot up a lot and have worse 'distance' situational awareness and worse awareness when someone's on my dead six in a dogfight. I think when you sign up for VR's benefits -- immersion and better front-facing gunnery in a dogfight -- you also sign up for its drawbacks. It's pretty realistic to need to fly 500m combat spread and have people checking each other's six.

 

The 10km draw distance has been bugging me recently. Sometimes I think my spotting is just dogshit (it probably is) but I *swear* planes suddenly appear pretty close, I rarely see anything as small as 1-3 pixels.

 

I wouldn't say it is snobby because the reason to try this kind of experience is a valid one I think, but I definitely agree it would be perceived as snobby by a lot of non-VR users. Especially if it was a really good server.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

I think getting a VR only server populated is a long way off.  But as time progresses/costs come down and performance goes up, people will realise VR is really where flight simulators are headed and the numbers will slowly shift.

 

In my mind something like the view restrictions would also appeal to those who fly with the HUD off. Most of us VR pilots were forced to fly without HUD and have grown to see the benefits of using gauges instead of 'tek tips'. Its hard work, but turning around checking 6 during an intense dogfight gets easier the longer your exposed to it. We are 20 months into flying VR in IL2 now - may there be many more!

 

[J5_HellCat_]

Let em eat cake ?

 

[Alonzo]

1 minute ago, moosya said:

I get your points, but there are private servers with passwords, which are the ultimate 'snobby' servers in my book.  So, how is setting up a VR-only snobby server any different from that?  Also, it's a server permissions customization ask, not a full-game ask.

 

VR-only servers raise the minimum price of equipment quite significantly. While lots of enthusiasts blow a lot of money on rigs and peripherals, you can also play BoX with a $16.99 sale copy of the base game and a $30 joystick. I guess 'snobby' is a subjective way to describe VR-only servers but it's objectively economic discrimination. There are many people I fly with who don't have VR and I think it would be a dick move for me to say "sorry, don't wanna fly with you until you spend $X on VR upgrades."

 

Having said that, I can also see the perspective that people would like max realism and a level playing field, and giving them a tool to achieve that (VR-only servers) would be appreciated. I just don't think it's a very mainstream thing to do. I'm still very grateful that 1C even created a VR mode for the game -- it's amazing.

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

1 minute ago, Alonzo said:

There are many people I fly with who don't have VR and I think it would be a dick move for me to say "sorry, don't wanna fly with you until you spend $X on VR upgrades."

 

Yep. I am the only guy in my Squadron of 5 that runs VR and its primarily due to cost.

[Alonzo]

1 minute ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

In my mind something like the view restrictions would also appeal to those who fly with the HUD off. Most of us VR pilots were forced to fly without HUD and have grown to see the benefits of using gauges instead of 'tek tips'. Its hard work, but turning around checking 6 during an intense dogfight gets easier the longer your exposed to it. We are 20 months into flying VR in IL2 now - may there be many more!

 

Actually I totally forgot this -- I would *love* HUD-off servers. I know I can turn my own HUD off but I'm weak and have no willpower -- every time I blow up my engine with overheat that the HUD would have told me about, I turn it on for the next mission. It's one reason I really like the P47 -- the engine is pretty complex and the HUD does very little to help, so you have to fly it on the gauges. 

[Guest deleted@134347]

2 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

VR-only servers raise the minimum price of equipment quite significantly. While lots of enthusiasts blow a lot of money on rigs and peripherals, you can also play BoX with a $16.99 sale copy of the base game and a $30 joystick. I guess 'snobby' is a subjective way to describe VR-only servers but it's objectively economic discrimination. There are many people I fly with who don't have VR and I think it would be a dick move for me to say "sorry, don't wanna fly with you until you spend $X on VR upgrades."

 

 

?  dude.. c'mon..  are you afraid of offending people?  Trust me, nothing happens to people when they get offended. They move on living their lives just like before. ?   I'm not advocating for pissing people off but nowadays the society needs to lay off the "someone will get offended" argument.

 

And I do understand your price argument as well, however it'd make sense if there were like 2 or 3 multiplayer servers available. There's like 40 MP servers and 35 of them are empty at any given moment.

[J5_HellCat_]

4 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

There are many people I fly with who don't have VR and I think it would be a dick move for me to say "sorry, don't wanna fly with you until you spend $X on VR upgrades."

So don't be a dick.......you wouldn't have to fly on the VR only server you can fly with them on any server you choose...thats the beauty of free will.

 

6 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

it's objectively economic discrimination.

c'mon that's  stretch

especially when you can pick up an explorer headset for $99.....much less than a TIR

 

[Alonzo]

Just now, moosya said:

  dude.. c'mon..  are you afraid of offending people?  Trust me, nothing happens to people when they get offended. They move on living their lives just like before. ?   I'm not advocating for pissing people off but nowadays the society needs to lay off the "someone will get offended" argument.

 

I've heard this argument a lot on the internet. I got flamed on Twitter for an article I had written, then the guy claimed he was trying to provide constructive criticism and that I should listen to his points even though he was being really combative and swearing at me. If he were really trying to give me constructive criticism he'd be polite or neutral, rather than hostile (or this guy is a teenager and has absolutely no idea how to interact with people). He might be thinking "this guy will just move on with his life like before" but actually the whole thing was pretty hurtful and it's still on my mind. You could say that's my problem, not his, but the reality is his behavior on the internet was pretty upsetting to me.

 

I think it's important to try to at least think about other people's feelings as we go through life, to try to empathize and not be a dick. Saying to my squadmates, who I regularly fly with and trust my virtual life to, that they must spend money or I won't fly with them anymore? Nah.

9 minutes ago, HellCat_ said:

c'mon that's  stretch

especially when you can pick up an explorer headset for $99.....much less than a TIR

 

Someone on a budget isn't using TrackIR(TM) they are using a $10 PSVR camera and a 3-point reflector cap from the dollar store, or a cheap 3D-printed IR clip.

 

Price me out a VR rig and headset, then compare it to the potato rigs that people can use for pancake mode. For a lot of people, "upgrade so you can run this game in VR" means buying an entire new rig plus GPU plus the HMD. Saying it's not economic discrimination is objectively false.

[Guest deleted@134347]

6 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I think it's important to try to at least think about other people's feelings as we go through life, to try to empathize and not be a dick. Saying to my squadmates, who I regularly fly with and trust my virtual life to, that they must spend money or I won't fly with them anymore? Nah.

 

understood, however my argument is that "being offended" is an extremely subjective position one could take. Then taking in to consideration another recent western phenomenon of "being offended on behalf of someone else" and you're dealing with an extremely subjective position in cubed power.. or more.. and is quite bizarre from my subjective point of view.

 

In my opinion having one VR only server != being a dick.

 

Having all MP servers configured as VR-only = being a dick.

 

?

Edited December 13, 2018 by moosya

[J5_HellCat_]

2 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

Saying to my squadmates, who I regularly fly with and trust my virtual life to, that they must spend money or I won't fly with them anymore? Nah.

 I'm struggling to understand this statement .....Who told you you had to do or say that ?.....lot's of server choices out there.....

 

6 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

I think it's important to try to at least think about other people's feelings as we go through life, to try to empathize and not be a dick.

I totally agree but i fail to see how that equates to one more server listed online.

[Alonzo]

1 minute ago, HellCat_ said:

 I'm struggling to understand this statement .....Who told you you had to do or say that ?.....lot's of server choices out there.....

 

If I'm advocating for a VR-only server setting (which I am kinda not advocating for, having thought more about it) then I presumably want to play on such a server. What do I do when my non-VR squadmates log in for the evening?

[BroGrimm1tkcamp]

Don't all servers seem to have some sort of restrictions? I think a VR group of pilots would be a great idea, I would like to think of myself as not being a "dick" because I would endorse such a server. It would be a place to encourage VR tips and share ideas while flying in the sim. We would all share the same restrictions and advantages.

[J5_HellCat_]

On 12/13/2018 at 11:21 AM, Alonzo said:

 

If I'm advocating for a VR-only server setting (which I am kinda not advocating for, having thought more about it) then I presumably want to play on such a server. What do I do when my non-VR squadmates log in for the evening?

Fly with them on the server of their choice like you have been all along ....nothing changes for you at all ......We'll wait for you to get done and are flying solo ....you'll know where to find us We'll be on the VR dogfight server   It's the same thing I'll be doing when I'm flying with squad mates on TAW or wing's of liberty or wherever .....

Edited September 6, 2020 by J5_HellCat_

[Guest deleted@134347]

3 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

If I'm advocating for a VR-only server setting (which I am kinda not advocating for, having thought more about it) then I presumably want to play on such a server. What do I do when my non-VR squadmates log in for the evening?

 

you can say "we can't play on vr-only server because it's being run the vr big dicks, so let's just join in a regular MP server named "kumbaya" "  ?

[BroGrimm1tkcamp]

6 minutes ago, Alonzo said:

 

If I'm advocating for a VR-only server setting (which I am kinda not advocating for, having thought more about it) then I presumably want to play on such a server. What do I do when my non-VR squadmates log in for the evening? 

Go fly with them if you wish. You wouldn't be restricted

[[CPT]Crunch]

Out of all the years of virtual pilots I've interacted with, only known two who were deadly that flew hats via snap and pan views only.  You should narrow it down, it's not that snappers are a threat offensively, just a nuisance with overly heightened defensive ability.  It's the track IR guys who are the real threat, since they can combine both. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, not for blocking anybody.  We had these same arguments in the original trackIR beta team.  Personally never been able to fly snap or pan, wouldn't be bothered with these games if that's all we had.  But I'm willing to go on the field in VR as long as it's my style of server.  For me the servers character and mission role play style is far more important than what guys are using for gear.

 

It takes talent to fly solely snaps and pan, I admire those guys who actually can master that, they're a rare breed.     

[CIA_Matabo]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:38 AM, SvAF/F16_radek said:

Yes I agree. Larger fov not multiplying rotation as this would probably be either barf-inducing or just very disconnecting. 

 

It’s track-ir that needs fixing, for the sake of realism

oh yes, it's so real in vr to teleport when you want to move forward 6 feet. Give me a break.

 

On 12/7/2018 at 1:11 AM, QB.Gordon200 said:

IRL pilots were not able to look directly behind themselves. They were strapped into tiny cockpits with limited mobility.

Yes that is true. But to even be a little competitive in IL-2 dogfights you have to be able to look behind and check your six. I'm not looking for full real, don't want to feel the pain of burning or getting shot. I just want to have the same chance as those using TrackIR5.

[J5_HellCat_]