Focke-Wulf Fw 190 A8 Modification

[FTC_Knipser]

With the FW 190 A8 Sturmjäger variant (R7 / R8) it was a common practice to remove the two 13mm machineguns in the nose of the plane to reduce the overall weight of the plane. It would be great if you could put this in the game, as an extra option for the A8 Sturmjäger.

Original entry from the german wikipedia:
"Um das zusätzliche Gewicht der Kanonen und der Panzerung zumindest teilweise auszugleichen, wurden bei den „Sturmbock“-Maschinen die vor dem Cockpit montierten 13-mm-MG 131 gewöhnlich demontiert. "
Translation:
"To partially counter the additional weight of the cannons and the armor, the 13-mm-MG 131, mounted in front of the cockpit, were usually removed from the "Sturmbock"-Planes."
 

Edited July 20, 2018 by [I./JG62]Knipser

[BMA_FlyingShark]

When you select the modification for bombing, the 2 outer guns in the wings get removed.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[LukeFF]

1 hour ago, FlyingShark said:

When you select the modification for bombing, the 2 outer guns in the wings get removed.

 

Have a nice day.

 

 

That's not what he's talking about.

[Yogiflight]

But TBH, the 'Sturmbock' was purely for attacking the heavy four mot bombers B17 and B24. The other reason, why the machineguns were removed was, that 13mm guns didn't do too much damage on a heavy bomber, but it does on the aircrafts, we have in game. The 'Sturmbock' version here in game is just a fun addition like the MK108 for the early G6, but has in fact nothing to do with the tactical ai war, that is aimed to be represented in BoBP.

[=27=Davesteu]

1 hour ago, Yogiflight said:

The 'Sturmbock' version here in game is just a fun addition like the MK108 for the early G6, but has in fact nothing to do with the tactical ai war, that is aimed to be represented in BoBP.

Not entirely correct. The Sturmgruppen of JG 3 & 4 participated in Unternehmen Bodenplatte.
A quite famous picture of a II.(Sturm)/JG 4 mount captured intact on January 1th, 1945:

 

On 7/20/2018 at 11:11 AM, [I./JG62]Knipser said:

With the FW 190 A8 Sturmjäger variant (R7 / R8) it was a common practice to remove the two 13mm machineguns in the nose of the plane to reduce the overall weight of the plane. It would be great if you could put this in the game, as an extra option for the A8 Sturmjäger.

The MG 131 being commonly removed was annotated during testing as well. Devs are aware but there are some complications.
Trying to unify designations, Rüstsatz 7 & 8 were added to the manual only in revised prints. We have the R2.

[Alexmarine]

Indeed IV./JG3 and II./JG4 were equipped with A-8/R-2 during Bodenplatte.

 

To represent them you just have to mount the MK108 on the plane. Adding the additional armour would have resulted in the A-8/R-6 (which were rare in the Bodenplatte operation: only 7 serviceable out of 9 on strenght)

[BMA_FlyingShark]

13 hours ago, LukeFF said:

 

That's not what he's talking about.

Ok, sorry.

 

Have a nice day.

 

[=27=Davesteu]

2 hours ago, Alexmarine28 said:

Indeed IV./JG3 and II./JG4 were equipped with A-8/R-2 during Bodenplatte.

To represent them you just have to mount the MK108 on the plane. Adding the additional armour would have resulted in the A-8/R-6 (which were rare in the Bodenplatte operation: only 7 serviceable out of 9 on strenght) 

Rüstsatz 6 are the 21 cm BR, not the additional armour.
Sturmgruppen operated the R2 in conjunction with the additional armour which had no R number. That's why they later added Rüstsatz 7 & 8 to the revised manual.
If you want a proper Sturmbock/Sturmjäger you have to select the Sturmjäger-modification and the Mk 108.

Edited July 23, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Alexmarine]

15 minutes ago, =27=Davesteu said:

Rüstsatz 6 are the 21 cm BR, not the additional armour.
Sturmgruppen operated the R2 in conjunction with the additional armour which had no R number. That's why they later added Rüstsatz 7 & 8 to the revised manual.
If you want a proper Sturmbock/Sturmjäger you have to select the Sturmjäger-modification and the Mk 108.

 

So the armour was not linked to a particular kit at first? Was then renamed only after as R-7/R-8? I don't think that what we have is a proper R-8 as it lacks the side armoured glasses. What was about the R-7?

[Jizzo]

45 minutes ago, Alexmarine28 said:

So the armour was not linked to a particular kit at first? Was then renamed only after as R-7/R-8? I don't think that what we have is a proper R-8 as it lacks the side armoured glasses. What was about the R-7?

I believe it's quite accurately implemented with the Sturmjäger mod, already.

 

It does add additional side-armour plates and glasses, i guess you just overlooked it, amigo.

 

After selecting the Sturmjäger mod, you can clearly see the downgraded visibility on the sides, due to the added armoured glass.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Jizzo

[MiloMorai]

The /R7 had additional armour but retained the 4 20mm cannon in the wings. The /R8 swapped out the outer 20mm cannon for 30mm cannon.

Both had the extra cockpit armour.- 

 

The /R2 weight increased ~50kg over the standard A-8.

Edited July 23, 2018 by MiloMorai

[=27=Davesteu]

The additional armour was linked to the Sturmstaffeln and Sturmgruppen but not to a specific armament. They initially operated A-6 which had no Mk 108 except for a single R2 prototype. Later on they mainly operated A-7/R2 and A-8/R2 for obvious reasons and added the additional armour to those as well. Rüstsatz 7 & R8 were created to make the various combinations more official versions.

 

1 hour ago, Alexmarine28 said:

I don't think that what we have is a proper R-8 as it lacks the side armoured glasses.

Are you referring to the panels of armoured class on either side of the canopy or on the windscreen?
Former were very often removed on unit level and officially dropped with the A-8/R8.

Edited July 23, 2018 by =27=Davesteu

[Alexmarine]

Yes, I was referring to the armoured glasses on the canopy sides, not the one on the left and right windscreen. Didn't know that they were usually dropped so thank you. 

 

So to make a run down of the variour combinations:

 

With the MK108 and the additional armour we can both make the R2 and R8

 

With the armour only we can make the R7

 

And with the 21cm rockets we can make the R6 (Probably mounted by the other 3 Sturm variants too if needed?)

[Jizzo]

Sorry Alex, i actually didn't know about the side-armour glass (Scheuklappen) you where referring to, till today. 

 

Would be neat to get those as a mod though, if it'd make sense timeframe wise, before they where officially dropped! 

Edited July 23, 2018 by Jizzo

[LukeFF]

So, if I'm following things correctly, the only thing missing right now is the removal of the MG 131s when the MK 108 and/or extra armor is added?

[=27=Davesteu]

Basically yes.
Not all had them removed but the majority. In my opinion it should be part of the Sturmjäger-modification (additional armour) itself.

[LukeFF]

http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2010/09/difference-between-fw190a-8r2-and-8r8.html?m=1

 

From reading that description there, it seems the one consistent time the MG 131s should be removed is with the R2/R8 configuration (MK 108 + Sturmjaeger). With the R7 config, the MG 131s apparently stayed in place. 

[LuftManu]

It should be nice to have it!

[Alexmarine]

Nice link Luke, it clears my  doubt about the R-2/R-8 issue too 

 

Best idea is to have a "Remove MG131" options which automatically is linked to the Sturmjäger and the MK108 options.

 

Edit: I re-read the link of Luke and re-thought the issue; the "Remove MG131" should be linked only to the MK108 option as it seems that both the machine guns and the armour were removed when pilots wanted to save weight on their planes.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Alexmarine28
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