VR Fever Is Cooling

[SharpeXB]

So is VR headed in the direction of 3D TV and gaming or the Kinect? Doesn’t seem surprising since the top titles are mostly first person shooters which would just make players sick in VR. With graphics that are too demanding for the headset to run. 

 

“major headset sales were down 50% in the first half of 2018 compared to the same time last year”

 

“Sony’s PlayStation VR headset reportedly shipped just over 100,000 units last quarter versus three-times as much during the same time last year, and a lack of AAA content is likely to blame”

 

“Microsoft, meanwhile, has seemingly abandoned plans to bring VR to the Xbox One X”

 

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/superdata-vr-sales-report-1202878145/

Edited July 19, 2018 by SharpeXB

[OrLoK]

not for me, i wont buy a new game if it doesnt have VR support.

 

what I think we will see is a shift from unique VR games to normal games that also support a VR view.

 

not all games need to be room scale or controller based.

 

a view point is enough, like track IR.

[ACG_Smokejumper]

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

So is VR headed in the direction of 3D TV and gaming or the Kinect? Doesn’t seem surprising since the top titles are mostly first person shooters which would just make players sick in VR. With graphics that are too demanding for the headset to run. 

 

“major headset sales were down 50% in the first half of 2018 compared to the same time last year”

 

“Sony’s PlayStation VR headset reportedly shipped just over 100,000 units last quarter versus three-times as much during the same time last year, and a lack of AAA content is likely to blame”

 

“Microsoft, meanwhile, has seemingly abandoned plans to bring VR to the Xbox One X”

 

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/superdata-vr-sales-report-1202878145/

 

 

FPS in VR is awesome. First time I did feel a little sick but it was hot. Second time was not hot and much better.

[dburne]

Not cooling at all, and in fact very much on the move forward.

 

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

2 minutes ago, 7./JG26_Smokejumper said:

 

 

FPS in VR is awesome. First time I did feel a little sick but it was hot. Second time was not hot and much better.

 

Indeed.  Once you try FPS in VR,  there is no going back to flat-screen there either.  Got my protube vr stock. Very immersive in Onward. 

 

Actually aiming with your own hands and hiding behind cover... You just can't go back to a mouse. 

[coconut]

It's sad if that tendency continues, but on the other hand last year saw a drop in pricing of the Oculus Rift which certainly contributed to good numbers, which make this year's numbers look less impressive.

 

Also, neither Oculus nor HTC have significantly improved devices. Oculus has introduced the Go, which isn't really for gaming, or maybe casual gaming at best, and HTC has over-priced a lackluster update of the Vive. Gamers who already have a headset won't be buying new ones unless significant improvements are introduced.

 

When it comes to games, I think many are disappointed by the lack of support by the AAA titles. The masses want Battlefield and FIFA and little else, and none of these games need or desire VR support.

[angus26]

I think I can speak for quite a few when I say that vr is very expensive, those who have and bought it right now, have good money to spend on it and a good rig. I’m waiting until it gets cheaper, so I can spend money on a better rig as well. I think quite a few are following that route.

[coconut]

Right, cost is a problem, and the GPU price explosion might have contributed to the growth slowdown 

[BeastyBaiter]

I think it's mostly a matter of no new hardware. That said, both the Odyssey and Rift sold out almost instantly during Amazon Prime day. The move to VR in general is going to be a slow, gradual transition, much like the move from 1080p gaming to 1440p. VR was heavily over hyped a couple years ago, but just cause it was over hyped doesn't mean it isn't still the future of gaming. It's just going to take time is all. I expect the proper 2nd generation of headsets (Vive Pro and Odyssey are more like gen 1.2) will bump up popularity greatly with it not becoming  mainstream until the third generation.

[Ehret]

Just now, BeastyBaiter said:

I expect the proper 2nd generation of headsets (Vive Pro and Odyssey are more like gen 1.2) will bump up popularity greatly with it not becoming  mainstream until the third generation.

 

The VR is not a replacement for 2D screens... Unless miniaturized to glasses size it won't go mainstream and even then it just may not. A similar way contact lenses hadn't displaced normal lenses.

[angus26]

55 minutes ago, BeastyBaiter said:

I think it's mostly a matter of no new hardware. That said, both the Odyssey and Rift sold out almost instantly during Amazon Prime day. The move to VR in general is going to be a slow, gradual transition, much like the move from 1080p gaming to 1440p. VR was heavily over hyped a couple years ago, but just cause it was over hyped doesn't mean it isn't still the future of gaming. It's just going to take time is all. I expect the proper 2nd generation of headsets (Vive Pro and Odyssey are more like gen 1.2) will bump up popularity greatly with it not becoming  mainstream until the third generation.

What price were they on prime day?

[Trooper117]

VR... stupidly expensive.

If they want people to get into and make VR more popular, then they need to make them at a price that the majority can afford.

People like me now have a limited budget and I have to be careful what I spend money on.

[BeastyBaiter]

1 hour ago, Ehret said:

 

The VR is not a replacement for 2D screens... Unless miniaturized to glasses size it won't go mainstream and even then it just may not. A similar way contact lenses hadn't displaced normal lenses.

 

I don't see them ever fully replacing regular screens but I can see a world where a flat screen is a niche item and VR is the norm. The reason is mobility. Just as cellphones largely replaced landlines, I can see VR replacing flat panels over the next decade. Right now VR lacks the image quality to do this and is fairly expensive, but prices are dropping rapidly and image quality is definitely going up at a decent pace. This is doubly true in the stand alone mobile devices. The big jump in adoption for PC/Console gamers will be when they are wireless, offer above 1080p effective resolution and cost under $200 (not including controllers, those will probably become separate). I expect the 2nd gen to all be about image quality and dealing with the enormous system requirements (see foveated rendering). The third generation will be where the big price drop occurs.

 

55 minutes ago, angus26 said:

What price were they on prime day?

 

$50 off for the Rift and $100 off for the Odyssey I think. It was a modest sale, but for whatever reason people piled on. It's worth mentioning that the regular price of the Lenovo WMR headset is around $225 with controllers. It isn't as good as the Rift or Odyssey, but it's a good entry level PCVR headset from what I've heard.

[dburne]

3 hours ago, BeastyBaiter said:

I think it's mostly a matter of no new hardware. That said, both the Odyssey and Rift sold out almost instantly during Amazon Prime day. The move to VR in general is going to be a slow, gradual transition, much like the move from 1080p gaming to 1440p. VR was heavily over hyped a couple years ago, but just cause it was over hyped doesn't mean it isn't still the future of gaming. It's just going to take time is all. I expect the proper 2nd generation of headsets (Vive Pro and Odyssey are more like gen 1.2) will bump up popularity greatly with it not becoming  mainstream until the third generation.

 

Zuckerburg stated he sees VR being a long term adoption, like 10 years to get to where he thinks it can be. They are definitely in it for the long haul it seems.

But it is definitely growing and we will see more and more about VR going forward. I am now seeing commercials oftentimes with VR headsets in them , used to not see that at all. We will probably start to see more big time events also being broadcast for VR.  Heck I watched OC4 in the Rift, and it was like I was right there in the room with everyone.

 

Nvidia is hyping a new connector for their next generation of video cards just for VR. They must be thinking it will be worth it.

I have no doubt over the next several years we will see changes to VR technology, and it will look very different then versus what we see currently today. We'll likely be looking back and laughing at how we used to do it. 

I just hope I am still around to see what it is like when that time comes.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by dburne

[angus26]

4 hours ago, Trooper117 said:

People like me now have a limited budget and I have to be careful what I spend money on.

Me in 10 years waiting for the vive to drop below 100 dollars. 

[Finkeren]

I'm one of those who's still sitting out the VR experience. I tried it and didn't like it for the simple reason, that I don't like turning my head that much to look around.

 

That being said: I don't believe VR is going the way of 3D. 3D is basically a gimmick, VR is a game changer - a completely different experience. Dips in sales after the initial rush is to be expected, when the still small market is glutted and we'll probably see some bankruptcies too. The same thing happens with every new technology.

.

[Cybermat47]

I tried VR once, it was alright.

[Pict]

So long as there is a requirement to setup a user account, ie logon/sign in to use this sort of hardware, I won't even try it

 

Other thing about VR that puts me off is it lack of portability

[Wolf8312]

3 hours ago, Finkeren said:

I'm one of those who's still sitting out the VR experience. I tried it and didn't like it for the simple reason, that I don't like turning my head that much to look around.

 

That being said: I don't believe VR is going the way of 3D. 3D is basically a gimmick, VR is a game changer - a completely different experience. Dips in sales after the initial rush is to be expected, when the still small market is glutted and we'll probably see some bankruptcies too. The same thing happens with every new technology.

.

 

I think 3D television could yet still come of age if the technology improves. The problem I think is needing to buy specific/expensive 3D movies and wear glasses. I have 3D TV and never use it, but it would be great if the TV was actually 3D meaning every program and there was no need to have to wear 3D glasses.

 

That said however, I watched CoCo in 3D and have to say it was a great experience in the cinema. Whole movie just lept out at ya, and it was a real visual feast!

 

3 hours ago, FFS_Cybermat47 said:

I tried VR once, it was alright.

 

Calm down! ?

[=EXPEND=Tripwire]

41 minutes ago, Pict said:

Other thing about VR that puts me off is it lack of portability

 

Can't say I ever take my rudder pedals, throttle, VKB stick with extension out with me often either.

I've dragged my Vive headset and desktop PC into work for others to try. Flight sim gear stays at home.

 

 

[Pict]

38 minutes ago, =EXPEND=Tripwire said:

Can't say I ever take my rudder pedals, throttle, VKB stick with extension out with me often either.

 

Oddly enough  I took my Hotas cougar (no lightweight item) and a custom built set of rudder pedal made by a German guy, (who's name slips my memory right now) on a business trip over 10 years ago. I travel a lot, like too much and this particular trip was extended...

 

The Hotas & pedals, which took up one whole suitcase, went with me by air from Paris to Melbourne, then on a road trip from Victoria to Queensland and back  and finally back Paris

 

It was more hassle than it was any real benefit as setting the whole rig up in various hotels & motels gets old real quick & the weight was prohibitive for some places I go to by light aircraft or helicopter, so I now operate a very slick light and easy to put together rig just for travelling, which I still do too much of.

 

From what I've seen of VR on their websites, setting it up is some what of a chore, that what I meant by lack of portability, certainly when compared to TrackIR or equivalent.

 

I may well try it some day when I have more time at home and can enjoy it properly.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Pict

[Lusekofte]

Well VR to me was a choose between immersion of a real life cockpit or VR , clicking of real buttons and real throttle made me hesitate using VR, now I got a rig to run VR and tested VR out . I still feel immersion is greater using the pit and buttons and not the VR. 

But I fly a lot DCS , BOX series and FC coming might win me over for the little time I use in this game. OR is cheap used in Norway, it is simply not of interest atm. But again, it could be my lack of interest for Great battles and not VR per see making me not buying it yet

[dburne]

Setting up is not bad at all, tweaking and tuning for best experience in what we do can be a little cumbersome.

[Royal_Flight]

I had an oculus but never took to it and ultimately got rid of it.

The resolution was too low and that was just too much of a frustration for me.

 

The sense of motion, the immersion, the spatial awareness of feeling like you’re in a real cockpit and the sense of scale you get was brilliant. And seeing how spacious a He 111 or Mi-8 flight deck felt compared to the cramped MiG-21 cockpit or the open top of an I-16 gave me a whole new appreciation of the size of the aircraft we use, which all feel the same on a 2d screen. 

 

But... I couldn’t read the instruments properly, spotting was difficult and the whole thing was such a faff to setup and use that I found I wasn’t enjoying myself much. 

Goibg back to TrackIR for the first time after those few weeks made me realise how much I had felt that way, it was almost like the first time I discovered headtracking.

I never really got that with VR tbh, after the initial wow-factor had passed it felt like an imposition. 

Also, BoX’s awful head-clunk limits system and the stupid noise it makes nearly made me give up on BoX altogether. Easily the worst feature ever implemented and one that needs to go the way of the unlocks. 

 

This is all subjective, obviously, and this is the nature of being an early-adopter. Maybe if a higher-res version is released I’ll give it another shot, but the current-gem didn’t do it for me. And this was after aspiring to use VR for a while and building a rig with that in mind. 

[xvii-Dietrich]

I had access to a major VR setup a couple of weeks ago and got to try Oculus Rift and Vive Pro, including some "virtual flying".

 

I was not particularly impressed.

 

Perhaps VR is the way of the future but, for me at least, there is a long way to go. Currently the low-resolution and the scan-lines make it feel like stepping back to using an old CRT monitor. I will certainly be waiting for 2nd (or maybe even 3rd) gen VR before even considering getting it for my flight games/sims.

[Wolf8312]

16 hours ago, xvii-Dietrich said:

I had access to a major VR setup a couple of weeks ago and got to try Oculus Rift and Vive Pro, including some "virtual flying".

 

I was not particularly impressed.

 

Perhaps VR is the way of the future but, for me at least, there is a long way to go. Currently the low-resolution and the scan-lines make it feel like stepping back to using an old CRT monitor. I will certainly be waiting for 2nd (or maybe even 3rd) gen VR before even considering getting it for my flight games/sims.

 

Strange. cause I honestly think BoX looks fricking fantastic in VR, and never grumble about the graphics at all which I find myself doing with DCS (trees mainly) from time to time.

 

In terms of shimmer or aliasing BOX VR is the best game I have ever seen VR wise, apart from when clouds are low lying, or if you are not using high graphics, or coconuts cloud mod. You also should make sure you alter the gamma to a much lower less exposed level, and if you can try to avoid flying at midday!

 

When I'm up there in the sky  far from being dissapointed with the graphics I am, even after all this time, amazed by how good they are, and how good the VR implementation in BOX actually is. And sweet jesus the atmosphere -for which the graphics are significantly responsible- is just incredible. You have got to get the settings right though, and this can take alot of tweaking!

 

I think it got better with the update -or at least reverted back to how it was before 3.002- as well because now with 4 x MSSA even buildings in the distance dont shimmer. Might have been a vive problem not sure...

 

You sure it wasnt a motion sickness problem?

[LLv34_Flanker]

S!

 

VR is a nice thing. You put your head into the game. Many have and like it. I will sit out a couple or more generations of them before considering buying one. At the moment too expensive for the real worth other than making the nerd next door cry himself to sleep

[xvii-Dietrich]

8 hours ago, Wolf8312 said:

You sure it wasnt a motion sickness problem?

 

Definitely not motion sickness, although I did feel a bit of a lurch on the first take-off. There seemed to be the scan lines (more pronounced on the Rift, in my opinion) and I did get the shimmer effect you mentioned, so maybe there is an MSSA or some other setting that could be tweaked to improve things. I don't know... I'll see if I can get access again (and access to tweaking the settings!). But somehow I just didn't get the "wow" that others have been talking about and I'm certainly happy with my old 1920x1200 monitor for the time being.

[dburne]

8 minutes ago, xvii-Dietrich said:

 

Definitely not motion sickness, although I did feel a bit of a lurch on the first take-off. There seemed to be the scan lines (more pronounced on the Rift, in my opinion) and I did get the shimmer effect you mentioned, so maybe there is an MSSA or some other setting that could be tweaked to improve things. I don't know... I'll see if I can get access again (and access to tweaking the settings!). But somehow I just didn't get the "wow" that others have been talking about and I'm certainly happy with my old 1920x1200 monitor for the time being.

 

Can't say I have ever seen scan lines with my Rift. I have been using it since Jan 15 2007. In any game - BoX, DCS, Elite Dangerous, other made for VR titles.

Shimmering effect can be negated with the AF filter option we now have in the BoS GUI, believe it is referred to as "Sharp" for terrain texturing or something like that. I would have to go back in and check the exact nomenclature.

I see no shimmering at all since they put that option in.

 

BoX to me is just stunning in VR, they have done a hell of a job with their VR implementation.

And I still to this day have that "Wow" feeling every time I put the headset on and launch the game.  And recently a special "Wow" at these WWI birds from FC in VR, they are gorgeous.

 

But I have said before and will say again, VR ( especially current generation) is not for everybody. Someday in the not too distant future though, it will be I am sure - at least for most.

And when Oculus brings their next generation PC-VR out, I will be one of the first to order one.

Edited July 22, 2018 by dburne

[Herne]

Part of the reason for slow sales may be because people are already hanging on for the next gen. I love my Rift, but wouldn't say no to higher res. Also I 'd like to see a way to focus the lenses, a bit like you do with bino's.

 

Apart from that room scale stuff, has no interest for me, seated simulation games all the way.

[dburne]

31 minutes ago, raaaid said:

there was never a VR fever you just think so because you hang around in places where adults play kids games and you think this is the norm

 

but i have info for you this is rare not the norm and why 99% of NORMAL people is not aware of virtual reality because they dont play kids games

 

Probably why FB/Oculus recently invested another 88 million into Oculus development...

 

I am seeing more and more VR devices showing up in TV commercials also.

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

VR is not going away, it will be maturing and standardizing.  PCs were owned by a very small number of people initially.  Did they go away?  Pimax is coming out with the 8K with higher res and a 170 or 200 FOV.  They are asking questions like, what games/sims are people planning to use it with to debug ahead of release and what kind of smells do we want in the scent module.

 

Eventually who knows where the tech will take VR.  There is of course CAD and medical procedures.  But I can imagine movies specifically shot with VR cameras so you are literally in the film  (did someone mention porn?) or maybe just take a stroll along the Amazon or view your latest colonoscopy ? (scent anyone?).    It won't all be games and they won't always need a PC.

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[Herne]

7 minutes ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

 They are asking questions like, what games/sims are people planning to use it with to debug ahead of release and what kind of smells do we want in the scent module.

 

 

 

ewww wonder what lengths they would go to to add the scent of burning flesh when your cockpit is on fire lol

[VBF-12_Stick-95]

My 5 were:

1. Engine oil
2. Engine exhaust fumes
3. Gunpowder/Fire
4. Fabric (heavy cotton and canvas)
5. Leather

One PIMAX suggestion was "Smell of girls".  Really?

 

Edited July 25, 2018 by VBF-12_Stick-95

[angus26]

1 hour ago, =FEW=Herne said:

 

ewww wonder what lengths they would go to to add the scent of burning flesh when your cockpit is on fire lol

Add the smell of cooking chicken or beef. Then you forget your plane is on fire and wonder “what’s that delicious smell?”

[dburne]

1 hour ago, VBF-12_Stick-95 said:

My 5 were:

1. Engine oil
2. Engine exhaust fumes
3. Gunpowder/Fire
4. Fabric (heavy cotton and canvas)
5. Leather

One PIMAX suggestion was "Smell of girls".  Really?

 

 

Lol yeah one of their stretch goals IIRC was Smellovision...

[BM357_TinMan]

Personally, as far as VR is concerned, I really want to try it and adopt it but I am in the "I have to wait" camp

I have to wait because, I need to do a massive upgrade on my system before diving into the VR scene and I want to wait a bit because I'd like to see the hardware and software technology advance a bit before I dive in.

 

I imagine that I am not alone in this respect and, eventually, more people will, eventually, adopt it.  Especially for FPS, flight sims and any of the multiple driving sims/first person racing games.

[angus26]

2 hours ago, BM357_TinMan said:

I imagine that I am not alone in this respect and, eventually, more people will, eventually, adopt it.  Especially for FPS, flight sims and any of the multiple driving sims/first person racing games.

You aren’t. Nowadays such an upgrade is a very big commitment time wise and money wise. Not to mention the technology is still taking its first steps. 

[dburne]

2 hours ago, BM357_TinMan said:

Personally, as far as VR is concerned, I really want to try it and adopt it but I am in the "I have to wait" camp

I have to wait because, I need to do a massive upgrade on my system before diving into the VR scene and I want to wait a bit because I'd like to see the hardware and software technology advance a bit before I dive in.

 

I imagine that I am not alone in this respect and, eventually, more people will, eventually, adopt it.  Especially for FPS, flight sims and any of the multiple driving sims/first person racing games.

 

That is smart move.

 

I have already decided and have funds to do a new build myself this year, but going to wait till maybe closer to end of year and see what is out there. December will be 5 years since I built this rig I have now.

On my current rig whilst I would like to get better, I am still getting very acceptable performance and a very smooth experience in VR.

[chiliwili69]

I don´t think VR in general is cooling. Like every new tech there is an hype-peak and fluctuations.

 

The VR adoption rate for IL-2 is pretty steady and going up month after month:

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/27278-about-vr-and-vr-devices-used/?do=findComment&comment=618511

 

Many people want VR, but they are still waiting for better resolution and FOV.

 

Another clear indicator of VR consolidation is that the new Turing GTX11xx series is that they will be equipped with the new VirtualLink USB Type-C connector especially designed for VR headsets:

https://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/3036808/nvidias-gtx-1180-gpu-will-launch-ahead-of-gamescom-on-20-august

 

But the definite proof is the Steam survey:  https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey  (Click in VR Headsets in bottom)

 

Five months ago it was:

 Oculus Rift 0.14% + HTC Vive 0.13% + Oculus Rift DK2 0.01% = 0.28% 

 

now it is:

Oculus Rift 0.30% + HTC Vive 0.29% + WMR 0.04% + HTC VivePro 0.01% + Oculus Rift DK2 0.01% = 0.65% 

 

So doubling the share in five months is not "cooling".